NOT VERY HAPPY - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

NOT VERY HAPPY

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
deadgamer
Jul 07, 2008 18:02:26 IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I
#2
hellmute
Jul 07, 2008 18:09:00 Yeah, many people.

Lots have left since 4th was announced last August.

Some even created their own forums for character optimization since the existing ones are for 4th edition only.
#3
killerdungeonmaster
Jul 07, 2008 18:53:26 Nope.

Not one.

You are the only unhappy gamer on the planet.

*****
#4
lordflashheart
Jul 07, 2008 20:10:40 I was unhappy at first. Now I can see 4E is a good system, but not a better one than 3E. 3E had some flaws that needed repair, and I wish they had just fixed those for the new edition instead of completely redoing the game. I think a lot of people are going to stick with 3E.
#5
the_ubbergeek
Jul 07, 2008 20:23:03 When the house have structural issues, you sure do at least heavy changed, deep and focal. Or you just rbeak it down and make it anew.
#6
Crimson_Concerto
Jul 07, 2008 20:59:25 We could probably help you understand the design decisions and why they aren't as bad as you think they are if you actually tell us what it is you don't like about 4E instead of just saying you don't like it...
#7
pigknight
Jul 07, 2008 21:19:12 I was skeptical of 4e, but now I embraced it. Made 3 monsters, 1 class, and remade bacon burst for 4e. 4e is like Bo9S + Sorcerer + ToM mixed and balanced.
#8
akumadaimyo
Jul 07, 2008 21:23:13
IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I

Carebare stare.
#9
darkraven18599
Jul 07, 2008 22:06:08 I admit to being somewhat displeased as of right now with the 4ed system. However, I am still using it and attempting to adjust to the new concept and rules accordingly. I believe fully in giving the system an honest try, though for myself and my groups personal game play style, this may not be the system for us.

But mine is just one opinion. Many people seem quite happy with the new system and enjoy the game because of it. If this brings in more people to the idea of tabletop roleplaying and expands the base of people we call gamers then I gladly welcome 4ed to the D&D world.

Just remember that if you find you do not enjoy the current game, you may always go back to using your older systems and enjoying the game in it's previous incarnations.

When all else fails, just role with it.

(Sorry, couldn't refuse using that pun).

Cheers
#10
rictras_shard
Jul 07, 2008 23:12:09
IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I

LOUD NOISES!!!!
#11
lhordaxes
Jul 07, 2008 23:14:23 Just ran KOTS for the first time tonight, and only got through one encounter. Combat seems very long, at least at low levels. It seems that the non-minion monsters have too many hit points and it takes forever to kill them. We went through 10-plus rounds of combat, which I thought really made the game drag on.

I hope the rest of the module is set up with shorter combats. Maybe it was just the die rolls or something, or we just weren't used to the system.
#12
greylurker_dup
Jul 07, 2008 23:29:44
I was unhappy at first. Now I can see 4E is a good system, but not a better one than 3E. 3E had some flaws that needed repair, and I wish they had just fixed those for the new edition instead of completely redoing the game. I think a lot of people are going to stick with 3E.

I am getting ready to try my first 3E/True20 hybrid game. I have high hopes for the result. The True20 system is a really nice evolution of 3rd and much more the style of game my group enjoys (IE: able to make a character that fits our imagination instead of trying to fit our image into the cookie cutter classes given to us in 4E)
#13
korgoththeprist
Jul 07, 2008 23:46:08 Ya 4E is kinda intrusting ITS differnt then 3.5 and such for many reasons.
hears a list of nice thoughts and bad thoughts about 4E vs 3.5

GOOD THINGS
1) There no more people ranting about class's and being rude. the only ranting seems to be vs the Wizard class. but its alot less then there was in 3.5 where you got yelled at for not caping your i. Though its just ranting like in 3.5 vs the fighter. ppl just hate it. 2 bad the class is better then they give credit for and all. 4E wizard is better then they give credit just like the 3.5 Fighter was better then ppl gave credit.
2) More life at earlyer levels. which meant no more Character Auto gets pwned at level 1 from a sling.
3) More Eveness the game supports TEAM Work and play. no one can run around alone and rampage.

BAD THINGS
1) Less life at high levels.
2) Kinda killed off the Bows and all that.
3) Multy-classing is beefer then it was b4.
4) Combat last longer and takes more time. ALOT MORE
5) Hurts smaller game groups. like 3-4 players 1 DM game wants 5-6 Player 1 DM if not more.
6) People are trying to use the monsters races from the monster manual and stay away from RAW when RAW is the normal thing and kinda disrupts raw game play
7) There is no set gold for createing ppl at higher level like NPCS and all. kinda a guess feature.

Over all sure theres more bad things and all. but i rather like 4E for its good points.
#14
greylurker_dup
Jul 08, 2008 0:40:27
1) There no more people ranting about class's and being rude. the only ranting seems to be vs the Wizard class. but its alot less then there was in 3.5 where you got yelled at for not caping your i. Though its just ranting like in 3.5 vs the fighter. ppl just hate it. 2 bad the class is better then they give credit for and all. 4E wizard is better then they give credit just like the 3.5 Fighter was better then ppl gave credit.

Damn straight people underestimated the 3.5 fighter.
Envision a combat style first, then go through the books to make it a reality.

Anytime my Halfling "Bouncing ball of Death" got charmed my group paniced cause he could drop most of them with only one or two passes.
#15
killerdungeonmaster
Jul 08, 2008 0:44:30
LOUD NOISES!!!!

Baxter? Is that you, Baxter? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee.

*****
#16
Crimson_Concerto
Jul 08, 2008 0:52:26
Damn straight people underestimated the 3.5 fighter.
Envision a combat style first, then go through the books to make it a reality.

Anytime my Halfling "Bouncing ball of Death" got charmed my group paniced cause he could drop most of them with only one or two passes.

I was going to try to not derail this thread, but then I realized it's not actually on any rails anyways, so whatever...

I'm going to put this bluntly: The only possible way the rest of your party could get scared of a charmed fighter would be if there were no Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, or Wizards in the party, and if there were, they must have been far below average power for their level.

Put simply, that particular Fighter may have been strong compared to the rest of its party (and I can't imagine a reasonably experienced party so feeble), but that doesn't change the fact that Fighters in general were at the bottom of the totem pole in 3.5.
#17
rictras_shard
Jul 08, 2008 1:13:18
Baxter? Is that you, Baxter? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee.

*****

You'll always be a friend to the bears.
#18
greylurker_dup
Jul 08, 2008 1:23:55
I was going to try to not derail this thread, but then I realized it's not actually on any rails anyways, so whatever...

I'm going to put this bluntly: The only possible way the rest of your party could get scared of a charmed fighter would be if there were no Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, or Wizards in the party, and if there were, they must have been far below average power for their level.

Put simply, that particular Fighter may have been strong compared to the rest of its party (and I can't imagine a reasonably experienced party so feeble), but that doesn't change the fact that Fighters in general were at the bottom of the totem pole in 3.5.

2 Psions
a Psy Warrior
a Knight
and a War Wizard

Only the PsyWarrior could take me.
The Knight could keep me busy due to his stupidly high AC.

Did you ever even look at all the options available to a Fighter?
#19
cal-vigu
Jul 08, 2008 1:25:24
IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I

I'm certain that there are people as unhappy with 4th Ed as you are, perhaps even some people who are more so.

*I*, however, am not one of them. I'm likin' it. Sure, its different - but I think its got lots of goodness to it. Yes, there are some things that its taking some time for me to wrap my head around. There are things that I first read and thought "HA! I'm gonna change THAT!" ...but after some thought, I decided it was fine as is.

Mind you - I found 3.0 to be tedious and too complex (and I'm no dummy!) - so I'm likin' the simpler, more streamlined thrust of 4e.

But people are different.
#20
Crimson_Concerto
Jul 08, 2008 1:35:13
Did you ever even look at all the options available to a Fighter?

Yes, yes I have, and they aren't as good as those available to other classes.

I could see a Fighter beating a Knight, I suppose, but the Psy Warrior should be able to trounce a Fighter with little problem. As for the Wizard and Psions, they should be having even less trouble than the Psy Warrior.

If your party members were of average competent power for their levels and classes (assuming you were all the same level and level-appropriately equipped, of course), your Fighter and the Knight should have been the two least powerful members of the party.

This leads me to believe the Wizard and Psions didn't have a very good idea what they were doing if you honestly believe you could have taken them...
#21
volund-starfire
Jul 08, 2008 2:06:17 I have a suggestion...

If you like 4e, then play 4e.
If you like 3.X, then play 3.X.
If you like both, then play both.
If you like neither, then get the heck off of the forums and quit trolling.

All of this hate toward 4e from the 3.Xers and toward 3.X from the 4e-ers is really getting on my nerves. I understand that not everyone likes the changes that the new edition made. That is their choice.

It is not as if WotC is sending the secret police out to confiscate all of your 3.X and execute any DMs who run those games.
#22
swamprat1
Jul 08, 2008 2:40:10
Just ran KOTS for the first time tonight, and only got through one encounter. Combat seems very long, at least at low levels. It seems that the non-minion monsters have too many hit points and it takes forever to kill them. We went through 10-plus rounds of combat, which I thought really made the game drag on.

I hope the rest of the module is set up with shorter combats. Maybe it was just the die rolls or something, or we just weren't used to the system.

I started KOTS last month after I had read the books and found the same thing. Once you get used to the system and your players learn what their powers do it does speed up and the penultimate encounter which we did last Thursday only took about an hour to go through and lasted about 10 rounds. The thing is that it takes more rounds to run an encounter but said encounter still takes around the same time as it did in 3.5.
#23
The_White_Sorcerer
Jul 08, 2008 3:15:03
Carebare stare.

Eww...
#24
unfamiliar
Jul 08, 2008 12:06:49 I'm just amused by the fact that whenever I see a thread where someone's complaining about 4e, hellmute just has to make an appearance. It's like they have some sorta radar or something. :P
#25
killerdungeonmaster
Jul 08, 2008 15:27:37
You'll always be a friend to the bears.

You stay classy, WotC forums!

*****
#26
high_octane
Jul 08, 2008 15:42:59
IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHJedxlxl0
#27
divine_hammer
Jul 09, 2008 21:26:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHJedxlxl0

Wow. That was beautiful.

And it was nice to see a thread full of comments about the quality of the music instead of how Handel used violins entirely differently in his composition and that this wasn't really violin music.
#28
farmer42_dup
Jul 09, 2008 23:09:14 At level 20, with the knight's capstone, there is no way the fighter should win. The knight might (probably will) fall over dead afterwards, but the fighter should hit the dirt first every single time. As awsome as the fighter is, he doesn't have the ability to say no to death. As long as the knight has challenges, he will win. If you figure the knight has a 10 in Cha, they'll have ten rounds of combat after being reduced to 0 or fewer HP, more if he has die-hard. And a few cross class ranks in UMD (which synergizes with the CHA dependency for the afformentioned Knight's Challenge) so that he can use a wand shouldn't be out of the realm of normalcy by level 20. Feats are nice, and all that, but I like being able to tell death where to stick and how far up for at least 10 rounds much better.
#29
Crimson_Concerto
Jul 09, 2008 23:18:42
At level 20, with the knight's capstone, there is no way the fighter should win. The knight might (probably will) fall over dead afterwards, but the fighter should hit the dirt first every single time. As awsome as the fighter is, he doesn't have the ability to say no to death. As long as the knight has challenges, he will win. If you figure the knight has a 10 in Cha, they'll have ten rounds of combat after being reduced to 0 or fewer HP, more if he has die-hard. And a few cross class ranks in UMD (which synergizes with the CHA dependency for the afformentioned Knight's Challenge) so that he can use a wand shouldn't be out of the realm of normalcy by level 20. Feats are nice, and all that, but I like being able to tell death where to stick and how far up for at least 10 rounds much better.

Ah, yes, I forgot about their capstone. You are correct. The Fighter should have been the weakest member of that party.

Of course, I was assuming the party was at a lower level, because I can't possibly conceive two level 20 psions and a level 20 wizard being even remotely afraid of a level 20 fighter...
#30
high_octane
Jul 10, 2008 8:46:56
Wow. That was beautiful.

And it was nice to see a thread full of comments about the quality of the music instead of how Handel used violins entirely differently in his composition and that this wasn't really violin music.

I was just looking for sad violin music and thats what came up.
#31
blowfish
Jul 10, 2008 11:16:20
I have a suggestion...

If you like 4e, then play 4e.
If you like 3.X, then play 3.X.
If you like both, then play both.
If you like neither, then get the heck off of the forums and quit trolling.

All of this hate toward 4e from the 3.Xers and toward 3.X from the 4e-ers is really getting on my nerves. I understand that not everyone likes the changes that the new edition made. That is their choice.

It is not as if WotC is sending the secret police out to confiscate all of your 3.X and execute any DMs who run those games.

I second this whole-heartedly!
#32
strand0
Jul 17, 2008 0:56:50
IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I

EN World ---

Poll: 4E: did WotC pull it off?
Yes! - 63.09%
No! - 36.91%

Total Votes: 1314

06-21-08
Poll 4E: did WotC pull it off?
Yes! - 63.73%
No! - 36.27%

Total Votes: 2010

Final
Poll 4E: did WotC pull it off?
Yes! 1,521 64.20%
No! 848 35.80%

Total Votes: 2369
#33
b4_life
Jul 17, 2008 1:15:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHJedxlxl0

My favorite "sad violin music" is this (the theme for Schindler's list; starts 45 seconds in).
#34
hellmute
Jul 17, 2008 12:55:34
Final
Poll 4E: did WotC pull it off?
Yes! 1,521 64.20%
No! 848 35.80%

Total Votes: 2369

~takes notes~

So only 1521 people like 4E.

Does this polling system allow for duplicate votes? Did the system change alter the voting statutes in any way to allow people to vote more than once?
#35
Steveman
Jul 17, 2008 13:19:31
IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I

Why should we care that you, who seemingly joined just to say you don't like the game, don't like the game?
Its not like posts like these help anything, all they do is casts Summon Drama Llama and no one without regeneration and a weakness to fire and acid likes that.
#36
ststeven
Jul 17, 2008 18:48:35 I'd like to pint out that all venom in this thread so far has come from 4vengers.
#37
bob_loblaw
Jul 17, 2008 22:15:34
I'd like to pint out that all venom in this thread so far has come from 4vengers.

Unless you count the first post in all caps and then yours with the "4vengers" comment.
#38
ststeven
Jul 17, 2008 22:43:28 I don't count the first post because there were several reasonable responses to the post before someone jumped on him. My guess is he is someone who got 4e and hated it. He signed up here and started a thread to express his frustration and see if others felt the same way. (There are others that feel the same way, not me yet, but there are.) The thread was about 10 minuets from the oblivion that is the second page.

Mine post was just an observation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 deadgamer Jul 07, 2008 18:02:26	IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I
#2 hellmute Jul 07, 2008 18:09:00	Yeah, many people. Lots have left since 4th was announced last August. Some even created their own forums for character optimization since the existing ones are for 4th edition only.
#3 killerdungeonmaster Jul 07, 2008 18:53:26	Nope. Not one. You are the only unhappy gamer on the planet. *****
#4 lordflashheart Jul 07, 2008 20:10:40	I was unhappy at first. Now I can see 4E is a good system, but not a better one than 3E. 3E had some flaws that needed repair, and I wish they had just fixed those for the new edition instead of completely redoing the game. I think a lot of people are going to stick with 3E.
#5 the_ubbergeek Jul 07, 2008 20:23:03	When the house have structural issues, you sure do at least heavy changed, deep and focal. Or you just rbeak it down and make it anew.
#6 Crimson_Concerto Jul 07, 2008 20:59:25	We could probably help you understand the design decisions and why they aren't as bad as you think they are if you actually tell us what it is you don't like about 4E instead of just saying you don't like it...
#7 pigknight Jul 07, 2008 21:19:12	I was skeptical of 4e, but now I embraced it. Made 3 monsters, 1 class, and remade bacon burst for 4e. 4e is like Bo9S + Sorcerer + ToM mixed and balanced.
#8 akumadaimyo Jul 07, 2008 21:23:13	IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I Carebare stare.
#9 darkraven18599 Jul 07, 2008 22:06:08	I admit to being somewhat displeased as of right now with the 4ed system. However, I am still using it and attempting to adjust to the new concept and rules accordingly. I believe fully in giving the system an honest try, though for myself and my groups personal game play style, this may not be the system for us. But mine is just one opinion. Many people seem quite happy with the new system and enjoy the game because of it. If this brings in more people to the idea of tabletop roleplaying and expands the base of people we call gamers then I gladly welcome 4ed to the D&D world. Just remember that if you find you do not enjoy the current game, you may always go back to using your older systems and enjoying the game in it's previous incarnations. When all else fails, just role with it. (Sorry, couldn't refuse using that pun). Cheers
#10 rictras_shard Jul 07, 2008 23:12:09	IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I LOUD NOISES!!!!
#11 lhordaxes Jul 07, 2008 23:14:23	Just ran KOTS for the first time tonight, and only got through one encounter. Combat seems very long, at least at low levels. It seems that the non-minion monsters have too many hit points and it takes forever to kill them. We went through 10-plus rounds of combat, which I thought really made the game drag on. I hope the rest of the module is set up with shorter combats. Maybe it was just the die rolls or something, or we just weren't used to the system.
#12 greylurker_dup Jul 07, 2008 23:29:44	I was unhappy at first. Now I can see 4E is a good system, but not a better one than 3E. 3E had some flaws that needed repair, and I wish they had just fixed those for the new edition instead of completely redoing the game. I think a lot of people are going to stick with 3E. I am getting ready to try my first 3E/True20 hybrid game. I have high hopes for the result. The True20 system is a really nice evolution of 3rd and much more the style of game my group enjoys (IE: able to make a character that fits our imagination instead of trying to fit our image into the cookie cutter classes given to us in 4E)
#13 korgoththeprist Jul 07, 2008 23:46:08	Ya 4E is kinda intrusting ITS differnt then 3.5 and such for many reasons. hears a list of nice thoughts and bad thoughts about 4E vs 3.5 *GOOD THINGS* 1) There no more people ranting about class's and being rude. the only ranting seems to be vs the Wizard class. but its alot less then there was in 3.5 where you got yelled at for not caping your i. Though its just ranting like in 3.5 vs the fighter. ppl just hate it. 2 bad the class is better then they give credit for and all. 4E wizard is better then they give credit just like the 3.5 Fighter was better then ppl gave credit. 2) More life at earlyer levels. which meant no more Character Auto gets pwned at level 1 from a sling. 3) More Eveness the game supports TEAM Work and play. no one can run around alone and rampage. *BAD THINGS* 1) Less life at high levels. 2) Kinda killed off the Bows and all that. 3) Multy-classing is beefer then it was b4. 4) Combat last longer and takes more time. ALOT MORE 5) Hurts smaller game groups. like 3-4 players 1 DM game wants 5-6 Player 1 DM if not more. 6) People are trying to use the monsters races from the monster manual and stay away from RAW when RAW is the normal thing and kinda disrupts raw game play 7) There is no set gold for createing ppl at higher level like NPCS and all. kinda a guess feature. Over all sure theres more bad things and all. but i rather like 4E for its good points.
#14 greylurker_dup Jul 08, 2008 0:40:27	1) There no more people ranting about class's and being rude. the only ranting seems to be vs the Wizard class. but its alot less then there was in 3.5 where you got yelled at for not caping your i. Though its just ranting like in 3.5 vs the fighter. ppl just hate it. 2 bad the class is better then they give credit for and all. 4E wizard is better then they give credit just like the 3.5 Fighter was better then ppl gave credit. Damn straight people underestimated the 3.5 fighter. Envision a combat style first, then go through the books to make it a reality. Anytime my Halfling "Bouncing ball of Death" got charmed my group paniced cause he could drop most of them with only one or two passes.
#15 killerdungeonmaster Jul 08, 2008 0:44:30	LOUD NOISES!!!! Baxter? Is that you, Baxter? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee. *****
#16 Crimson_Concerto Jul 08, 2008 0:52:26	Damn straight people underestimated the 3.5 fighter. Envision a combat style first, then go through the books to make it a reality. Anytime my Halfling "Bouncing ball of Death" got charmed my group paniced cause he could drop most of them with only one or two passes. I was going to try to not derail this thread, but then I realized it's not actually on any rails anyways, so whatever... I'm going to put this bluntly: The only possible way the rest of your party could get scared of a charmed fighter would be if there were no Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, or Wizards in the party, and if there were, they must have been far below average power for their level. Put simply, that particular Fighter may have been strong compared to the rest of its party (and I can't imagine a reasonably experienced party so feeble), but that doesn't change the fact that Fighters in general were at the bottom of the totem pole in 3.5.
#17 rictras_shard Jul 08, 2008 1:13:18	Baxter? Is that you, Baxter? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee. ***** You'll always be a friend to the bears.
#18 greylurker_dup Jul 08, 2008 1:23:55	I was going to try to not derail this thread, but then I realized it's not actually on any rails anyways, so whatever... I'm going to put this bluntly: The only possible way the rest of your party could get scared of a charmed fighter would be if there were no Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, or Wizards in the party, and if there were, they must have been far below average power for their level. Put simply, that particular Fighter may have been strong compared to the rest of its party (and I can't imagine a reasonably experienced party so feeble), but that doesn't change the fact that Fighters in general were at the bottom of the totem pole in 3.5. 2 Psions a Psy Warrior a Knight and a War Wizard Only the PsyWarrior could take me. The Knight could keep me busy due to his stupidly high AC. Did you ever even look at all the options available to a Fighter?
#19 cal-vigu Jul 08, 2008 1:25:24	IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I I'm certain that there are people as unhappy with 4th Ed as you are, perhaps even some people who are more so. I, however, am not one of them. I'm likin' it. Sure, its different - but I think its got lots of goodness to it. Yes, there are some things that its taking some time for me to wrap my head around. There are things that I first read and thought "HA! I'm gonna change THAT!" ...but after some thought, I decided it was fine as is. Mind you - I found 3.0 to be tedious and too complex (and I'm no dummy!) - so I'm likin' the simpler, more streamlined thrust of 4e. But people are different.
#20 Crimson_Concerto Jul 08, 2008 1:35:13	Did you ever even look at all the options available to a Fighter? Yes, yes I have, and they aren't as good as those available to other classes. I could see a Fighter beating a Knight, I suppose, but the Psy Warrior should be able to trounce a Fighter with little problem. As for the Wizard and Psions, they should be having even less trouble than the Psy Warrior. If your party members were of average competent power for their levels and classes (assuming you were all the same level and level-appropriately equipped, of course), your Fighter and the Knight should have been the two least powerful members of the party. This leads me to believe the Wizard and Psions didn't have a very good idea what they were doing if you honestly believe you could have taken them...
#21 volund-starfire Jul 08, 2008 2:06:17	I have a suggestion... If you like 4e, then play 4e. If you like 3.X, then play 3.X. If you like both, then play both. If you like neither, then get the heck off of the forums and quit trolling. All of this hate toward 4e from the 3.Xers and toward 3.X from the 4e-ers is really getting on my nerves. I understand that not everyone likes the changes that the new edition made. That is their choice. It is not as if WotC is sending the secret police out to confiscate all of your 3.X and execute any DMs who run those games.
#22 swamprat1 Jul 08, 2008 2:40:10	Just ran KOTS for the first time tonight, and only got through one encounter. Combat seems very long, at least at low levels. It seems that the non-minion monsters have too many hit points and it takes forever to kill them. We went through 10-plus rounds of combat, which I thought really made the game drag on. I hope the rest of the module is set up with shorter combats. Maybe it was just the die rolls or something, or we just weren't used to the system. I started KOTS last month after I had read the books and found the same thing. Once you get used to the system and your players learn what their powers do it does speed up and the penultimate encounter which we did last Thursday only took about an hour to go through and lasted about 10 rounds. The thing is that it takes more rounds to run an encounter but said encounter still takes around the same time as it did in 3.5.
#23 The_White_Sorcerer Jul 08, 2008 3:15:03	Carebare stare. Eww...
#24 unfamiliar Jul 08, 2008 12:06:49	I'm just amused by the fact that whenever I see a thread where someone's complaining about 4e, hellmute just has to make an appearance. It's like they have some sorta radar or something. :P
#25 killerdungeonmaster Jul 08, 2008 15:27:37	You'll always be a friend to the bears. You stay classy, WotC forums! *****
#26 high_octane Jul 08, 2008 15:42:59	IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHJedxlxl0
#27 divine_hammer Jul 09, 2008 21:26:28	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHJedxlxl0 Wow. That was beautiful. And it was nice to see a thread full of comments about the quality of the music instead of how Handel used violins entirely differently in his composition and that this wasn't really violin music.
#28 farmer42_dup Jul 09, 2008 23:09:14	At level 20, with the knight's capstone, there is no way the fighter should win. The knight might (probably will) fall over dead afterwards, but the fighter should hit the dirt first every single time. As awsome as the fighter is, he doesn't have the ability to say no to death. As long as the knight has challenges, he will win. If you figure the knight has a 10 in Cha, they'll have ten rounds of combat after being reduced to 0 or fewer HP, more if he has die-hard. And a few cross class ranks in UMD (which synergizes with the CHA dependency for the afformentioned Knight's Challenge) so that he can use a wand shouldn't be out of the realm of normalcy by level 20. Feats are nice, and all that, but I like being able to tell death where to stick and how far up for at least 10 rounds much better.
#29 Crimson_Concerto Jul 09, 2008 23:18:42	At level 20, with the knight's capstone, there is no way the fighter should win. The knight might (probably will) fall over dead afterwards, but the fighter should hit the dirt first every single time. As awsome as the fighter is, he doesn't have the ability to say no to death. As long as the knight has challenges, he will win. If you figure the knight has a 10 in Cha, they'll have ten rounds of combat after being reduced to 0 or fewer HP, more if he has die-hard. And a few cross class ranks in UMD (which synergizes with the CHA dependency for the afformentioned Knight's Challenge) so that he can use a wand shouldn't be out of the realm of normalcy by level 20. Feats are nice, and all that, but I like being able to tell death where to stick and how far up for at least 10 rounds much better. Ah, yes, I forgot about their capstone. You are correct. The Fighter should have been the weakest member of that party. Of course, I was assuming the party was at a lower level, because I can't possibly conceive two level 20 psions and a level 20 wizard being even remotely afraid of a level 20 fighter...
#30 high_octane Jul 10, 2008 8:46:56	Wow. That was beautiful. And it was nice to see a thread full of comments about the quality of the music instead of how Handel used violins entirely differently in his composition and that this wasn't really violin music. I was just looking for sad violin music and thats what came up.
#31 blowfish Jul 10, 2008 11:16:20	I have a suggestion... If you like 4e, then play 4e. If you like 3.X, then play 3.X. If you like both, then play both. If you like neither, then get the heck off of the forums and quit trolling. All of this hate toward 4e from the 3.Xers and toward 3.X from the 4e-ers is really getting on my nerves. I understand that not everyone likes the changes that the new edition made. That is their choice. It is not as if WotC is sending the secret police out to confiscate all of your 3.X and execute any DMs who run those games. I second this whole-heartedly!
#32 strand0 Jul 17, 2008 0:56:50	IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I EN World --- Poll: 4E: did WotC pull it off? Yes! - 63.09% No! - 36.91% Total Votes: 1314 06-21-08 Poll 4E: did WotC pull it off? Yes! - 63.73% No! - 36.27% Total Votes: 2010 Final Poll 4E: did WotC pull it off? Yes! 1,521 64.20% No! 848 35.80% Total Votes: 2369
#33 b4_life Jul 17, 2008 1:15:56	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHJedxlxl0 My favorite "sad violin music" is this (the theme for Schindler's list; starts 45 seconds in).
#34 hellmute Jul 17, 2008 12:55:34	Final Poll 4E: did WotC pull it off? Yes! 1,521 64.20% No! 848 35.80% Total Votes: 2369 ~takes notes~ So only 1521 people like 4E. Does this polling system allow for duplicate votes? Did the system change alter the voting statutes in any way to allow people to vote more than once?
#35 Steveman Jul 17, 2008 13:19:31	IS ANY ONE AS UNHAPPY WITH THE 4TH EDITION OF DND AS I Why should we care that you, who seemingly joined just to say you don't like the game, don't like the game? Its not like posts like these help anything, all they do is casts Summon Drama Llama and no one without regeneration and a weakness to fire and acid likes that.
#36 ststeven Jul 17, 2008 18:48:35	I'd like to pint out that all venom in this thread so far has come from 4vengers.
#37 bob_loblaw Jul 17, 2008 22:15:34	I'd like to pint out that all venom in this thread so far has come from 4vengers. Unless you count the first post in all caps and then yours with the "4vengers" comment.
#38 ststeven Jul 17, 2008 22:43:28	I don't count the first post because there were several reasonable responses to the post before someone jumped on him. My guess is he is someone who got 4e and hated it. He signed up here and started a thread to express his frustration and see if others felt the same way. (There are others that feel the same way, not me yet, but there are.) The thread was about 10 minuets from the oblivion that is the second page. Mine post was just an observation.