While ordinarily I wouldn't post something like this, I felt that this was so utterly astounding it needed to be shared with the world.
Seriously, isn't ANYONE like, hey guys, doesn't this seem familiar somehow?
It also makes me feel worse about the economic crisis. My normal opinion on prayer is at least they're not doing anything to hurt. But if there is a God, he might look down at those incompetent faithful and get very angry. I mean, if you make a random@ss rule like don't pray to a cow made of gold, and people still find a way to **** it up, you would be ****** to.
$10 says the market plunges tomorrow ;) .
While ordinarily I wouldn't post something like this, I felt that this was so utterly astounding it needed to be shared with the world.
TD, you've given me one of the best belly laughs I've had in years. I thank you.
Yeah, that'd be valid...except...wait. They weren't worshipping the calf. They were laying hands upon it as a symbol of Wall Street, praying that things will get better. Is it a bit odd, even from a Christian perspective? Sure.
But they're not worshipping the bull. I realize the difference seems small to an "outsider", but they even stated their intent. It's not worship of the bull, it's symbolic intercessary prayer.
-Joni
hahahaha
:heehee......
Yeah, that'd be valid...except...wait. They weren't worshipping the calf. They were laying hands upon it as a symbol of Wall Street, praying that things will get better. Is it a bit odd, even from a Christian perspective? Sure.
But they're not worshipping the bull. I realize the difference seems small to an "outsider", but they even stated their intent. It's not worship of the bull, it's symbolic intercessary prayer.
Still, they were praying for money. Mixing the Emperor's with the Heavenly and stuff. Plus, if you see people kneeling before a golden statue and saying prayers, who would you think are they worshiping?
Fail on a Biblical scale.
Anyone else have the sudden urge to watch Dogma?
I always have an urge to watch Dogma.
Still, they were praying for money. Mixing the Emperor's with the Heavenly and stuff. Plus, if you see people kneeling before a golden statue and saying prayers, who would you think are they worshiping?
Fail on a Biblical scale.
They're praying for the economy, which is a lot more than just money. It's like praying to keep their job, or their home, ability to provide for thier children. Praying for money is one thing, praying for the economy is another.
What I don't understand is the "Lion Economy" or what the quote says is an economy controlled by god.
What exactly would an economy controlled by god look like?
I always have an urge to watch Dogma.
Hell lets throw in... Mallrats and call it a afternoon.
What exactly would an economy controlled by god look like?
Like this? And to think Christians stereotypically hate D&D....
Bill Gates gets the portfolio of entrepreneurship and market domination.
What exactly would an economy controlled by god look like?
No money-changers in the temple, for one.
I've thought about this long and hard. If you read the Christian bible, any economy is bad. Christians are told to keep the money-changers out of God's house. Christians are told to keep only what they need and to offer the rest to those without. Christians are told that gathering for meals is vital for the rememberance of their prophet. Christians are told that usury (interest) is a sin against their brothers and therefore a sin against god. Christians are taught that graven images (those presidential pictures on the money) are Idolatry, and therefore a sin against god. Are you seeing the pattern?
I've called Jesus a communist many times in my life and taken the abuse from fundamentalists and moderates alike for it. But if you read their scripture, I'm not far off the mark. It doesn't even occur to modern Christians that while the other six of the deadly sins are bad, Greed is one of the seven. Taking the list as a whole*, it will guide you to a better and happier life both here and in the afterlife.
* The seven deadly sins are pretty straightforward. Be humble, pride is sinful. Don't want more than you need, greed is sinful. Work hard, laziness (sloth) is sinful. You don't need to be the prettiest, because vanity isn't humble and is sinful. Don't be vengeful, let god bear your wrath and exact your justice. Eat and drink in moderation, for gluttony is sinful. Don't sate your desires with another's wife, it will force his wrath and therefore, lust is sinful. Seven easy rules that promote a healthy body, healthy mind, and healthy community, nothing more.
They're praying for the economy, which is a lot more than just money. It's like praying to keep their job, or their home, ability to provide for thier children. Praying for money is one thing, praying for the economy is another.
What I don't understand is the "Lion Economy" or what the quote says is an economy controlled by god.
What exactly would an economy controlled by god look like?
Yeah, that's what I meant. They're praying that things stop being so crappy and up and down.
"Lion's Economy"...eh. That's part of the "quirky" I mentioned earlier.
I'd imagine what they meant was they want an economy that's more steady, with less wild fluctuation in either direction. More of a steady growth kind of thing. *Shrugs* I'd have to ask them.
Oh, goblin, by the by, a couple of things: the "no interest" is on loans; the graven images would mean people's faces, things like leaves, etc. can still be on there, or just have plain coins/bills (maybe just marked with amounts). Not that you're totally off base with your other stuff. It is food for thought, and something I've heard from some others in my time. ;)
Oh, goblin, by the by, a couple of things: the "no interest" is on loans; the graven images would mean people's faces, things like leaves, etc. can still be on there, or just have plain coins/bills (maybe just marked with amounts). Not that you're totally off base with your other stuff. It is food for thought, and something I've heard from some others in my time. ;)
Yes, I know, some of it was stretching. The graven images is why the Israeli Shekel doesn't have people on them. The interest thing makes banking a foreign concept in Islamic countries. But it's amusing to think about it from another perspective, isn't it?
One of Jesus' parables involved a rich man who, before leaving the country, left large amounts of money with three of his servants. He instructed them to use the money well. When he returned home, he rewarded the servant who invested the money well and got good returns on it; he was displeased with his servant who buried the money in his backyard, and did not reward him in any manner.
Now, it's an allegory for doing God's work, but I can't help think that this could be used to show Jesus supports the Bull Market and aggressive capitalism. :P ;)
Christians stereotypically hate D&D....[/b]
Level of ANGER rising...:hoppingma :hoppingma :headexplo
One of Jesus' parables involved a rich man who, before leaving the country, left large amounts of money with three of his servants. He instructed them to use the money well. When he returned home, he rewarded the servant who invested the money well and got good returns on it; he was displeased with his servant who buried the money in his backyard, and did not reward him in any manner.
But what of the third servant? Was the money well-spent, saved or frittered away in fruitless endeavors?
This parable is somewhat confusing. The servant that was punished was punished for secreting away something that was given to him to protect. He served his master quite well and was not rewarded for his efforts. The servant that fed his master's greed risked his master's wrath by risking his charge in it's investment, but gained his master's gratitude for the return. The Master is at fault for not punishing the servant that earned him a return and rewarding the servant that saved the money for the master. The point is that greed is bad, it makes you blind to those that truly serve you well.
For the record, I'm one devil that needs no advocate...
For the most part the lord lets you get whats coming, however men may try to mitigate it. (oh why don't they just let bad businesses fail and die, so that they may be replaced by better ones?)
As to the cause of the failing economy: Con men. The banks adopted a business plan where they would give out loans to those who could not hope to pay them off, and hope to get a small amount of profit as they screwed over their clients for every penny they had.
However, they should know that what is good for the whole is good for the individual. Even if it may seem only statistical.
As to the cause of the failing economy: Con men. The banks adopted a business plan where they would give out loans to those who could not hope to pay them off, and hope to get a small amount of profit as they screwed over their clients for every penny they had.
See also: Credit default swaps and credit derivatives in general causing ridiculous levels of risk systemically, when they should have been regulated to prevent that. That is a crooked piece of vaporware...err, credit feedback loop in the fiat currency system that is unsustainable. Fiat currency is great, when such cons are prevented. Con men on both counts, those who loaned out money to those they knew couldn't pay, and those who deregulated and allowed banks to create that systemic risk.
But yes, it was con men, who should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives wholesale, not given enormous golden parachutes, or allowed to simply skulk away with their enormous fortunes, who are the cause of all of this.But what of the third servant? Was the money well-spent, saved or frittered away in fruitless endeavors?
This parable is somewhat confusing. The servant that was punished was punished for secreting away something that was given to him to protect. He served his master quite well and was not rewarded for his efforts. The servant that fed his master's greed risked his master's wrath by risking his charge in it's investment, but gained his master's gratitude for the return. The Master is at fault for not punishing the servant that earned him a return and rewarding the servant that saved the money for the master. The point is that greed is bad, it makes you blind to those that truly serve you well.
For the record, I'm one devil that needs no advocate...
Of course, since it's a parable, the actual meaning is not about money, but about each of us having individual gifts/talents from God, which we are to use. Purposefully burying/hiding/not using them is frowned upon. He simply couched it in relatively easily-understood terms.
See also: Credit default swaps and credit derivatives in general causing ridiculous levels of risk systemically, when they should have been regulated to prevent that. That is a crooked piece of vaporware...err, credit feedback loop in the fiat currency system that is unsustainable. Fiat currency is great, when such cons are prevented. Con men on both counts, those who loaned out money to those they knew couldn't pay, and those who deregulated and allowed banks to create that systemic risk.
Or simply allowed to starve to death as they have not money for food as their victims. I was saying that those companies that give out too many credit cards on deals and strange point systems are the con men, or at least run by con men.
But they are only half the problem, the other half is the people who buy into the cons. They need to learn their lesson and get on their lives, living at the lowest luxury level if need be. But the problem is they don't. They keep on making the same mistakes, and many of these mistakes also are moral problems.
The only thing a government can do is watch as these people starve to death because of their own mistakes and serve as warnings to others. Unless the unlikely intervention of their betters, they will die. However any bureaucracy is fundamentally unable to deal with the problem because it is a personal problem. Charity must be left to charity simply because government is incompetent at charity by its very nature. Government works in the general case, not the specific.
Or simply allowed to starve to death as they have not money for food as their victims. I was saying that those companies that give out too many credit cards on deals and strange point systems are the con men, or at least run by con men.
But they are only half the problem, the other half is the people who buy into the cons. They need to learn their lesson and get on their lives, living at the lowest luxury level if need be. But the problem is they don't. They keep on making the same mistakes, and many of these mistakes also are moral problems.
The only thing a government can do is watch as these people starve to death because of their own mistakes and serve as warnings to others. Unless the unlikely intervention of their betters, they will die. However any bureaucracy is fundamentally unable to deal with the problem because it is a personal problem. Charity must be left to charity simply because government is incompetent at charity by its very nature. Government works in the general case, not the specific.
I'm unsure as to your point here. Are you saying that people who are the victims of foreclosures should be left to "starve to death"? Other than betraying a fundamental and rather soulless lack of compassion,you also miss the point that not everyone whose homes are currently in foreclosure is to blame for their position. In a market where housing prices didn't seem to go anywhere but up, many people took out seemingly safe mortgages well within their means to afford, only to watch their house then plummet in value. This decrease in the amount of equity they held in their house meant they could no longer take money out of their property to pay the mortgage. This fall in housing prices was in turn sparked by predatory lending to fools who where taken in by ridiculous claims, but ended up hurting a great many responsible individuals.
Saying that the government is incapable of dealing with individuals' problems is rather simplistic. Yes, large bureaucracies are inefficient at dealing with changing circumstances. But the government response to some individual crisis like house fires (fire department) is quite effective, even if sometimes the individuals whose house is burning really shouldn't have left the stove on all day. In some cases the public good outweighs the fact that the individual served might need to learn a good lesson.
This is especially true of our economy,in which all of us depend on each other to prosper. I don't understand how you can expect to do well yourself while your neighbors all fall on hard times, when a tropical storm on the other side of the world can set off a chain of events that has a real and lasting impact on our economy. I'm not advocating a "get out of your mortgage free card" for everyone who made bad choices, but I am saying that you might have to swallow some of your righteous indignation in favor of old fashioned pragmatic self interest in order to ensure that we all get out of this recession as quickly and painlessly as possible.
I am not saying that you must always be without mercy. But the government cannot do it, communism and fascism, neither do what they say they will do. Such moves of power from the populous to the government have always set up dictators.
The other thing you have to remember is fairness. It is only fair that they die.
Yup, the Darwinian mechanic is the only impartial judge that I know of. These mercies must be left to those who have the excess needed to be merciful, but forcing it is unfair.
We must face the fact that the world is far more fair than we give it credit for. And that much of our suffering is our own fault.
But what of the third servant? Was the money well-spent, saved or frittered away in fruitless endeavors?
This parable is somewhat confusing. The servant that was punished was punished for secreting away something that was given to him to protect. He served his master quite well and was not rewarded for his efforts. The servant that fed his master's greed risked his master's wrath by risking his charge in it's investment, but gained his master's gratitude for the return. The Master is at fault for not punishing the servant that earned him a return and rewarding the servant that saved the money for the master. The point is that greed is bad, it makes you blind to those that truly serve you well.
The third servant (who in the Parable was actually the second servant
) invested the money and made a profit, although it was far less than the first servant. He was rewarded, less than the first but more than the third. Like Knight's_Disciple said, it's an allegory for using your gifts as much as possible, regardless of the risks. Given that martyrdom (dying for your cause) is a tenet of Christianity, a certain amount of recklessness is encouraged by the Holy Texts. Which seems to have permeated into secular Western society over the past millenium.
Level of ANGER rising...:hoppingma :hoppingma :headexplo
What? You haven't seen/heard all the stories about the Christians who think D&D = Satan, or heard about the uproar in the '80s? I never said it was true of every Christian, or that it was true now, just that it's a common stereotype of Christians in the RPGer community.
Besides, the whole point of that was to compare the golden bull to Waukeen and imply that "hey, Christians are 'supposed' to hate D&D, yet they stole an idea from us!"
Anyways, just wanted to address that; we now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.
Yeah, that'd be valid...except...wait. They weren't worshipping the calf. They were laying hands upon it as a symbol of Wall Street, praying that things will get better. Is it a bit odd, even from a Christian perspective? Sure.
I'm aware they were not worshipping the bull, but they were doing what amounts to venerating an idol. Probably worse is the fact that they were basically praying for money, but the image of them and the Golden Bull is much, much funnier.
Of course, most Christians have long sine dropped the proscriptions against such, given all the golden crucifixes, statues of Mary, ect. people pray in front of.
No money-changers in the temple, for one.
You know, of all the proscriptions, I have the feeling that that one is one of the ones less likely to be broken these days.
I've called Jesus a communist many times in my life and taken the abuse from fundamentalists and moderates alike for it. But if you read their scripture, I'm not far off the mark. It doesn't even occur to modern Christians that while the other six of the deadly sins are bad, Greed is one of the seven. Taking the list as a whole*, it will guide you to a better and happier life both here and in the afterlife.
He's not really a communist per se, but there are certainly similarities.