Just wanted some opinions on other RPG systems to try.
I've played D&D for 20+ years. I played White Wolf occasionally (probably 3 campaigns, none of which lasted more than a few months).
I liked the Marvel Superheroes RPG when I was like 14.
I made a few GURPS characters, but never played them.
I played a d20 cthulu game, very fun, but DM flaked out.
Anyway, other than d20 and previous versions of D&D I don't have much experience with RPGS.
I think I'd like to see something that has a skill based system rather than a class-based system.
Any suggestions? I think GURPS is my favorite system to make characters in so far, but I dont' think I'll ever actually be able to play...
So, other than D&D, what systems do you like to use (and if you're feeling talkative give a brief description of it, plus any genres of game you played in it).
I've also played Battletech, but never beyond a simple scenario or a free for all PVP deal. We used to build custom mechs and then 'test' them by pitting them against each other. Really, it's just an excuse to play a laser firing giant robot. Building mechs can seem sorta daunting, but once you get used to it, you can really fire 'em out. And it's fun. Like, really fun. My friends have actually played through a campaign or two and it seemed really interesting. The furthest I got was one scenario but I really liked how it ran. It's neat. You need to account for all sorts of stuff like range, terrain, etc. But mostly it's about making and playing and killing big robots with bigger guns.
EDIT: Whoops! Neither of those is d20. Shadowrun uses a d6 dice pool and Battletech uses 6 siders as well.
I'm a huge fan of Shadowrun but I never get to play it (ain't that always the way). I've only played the edition before the current one and thought it did a good enough job. I've heard mixed things about the new one - seems like a love it or hate it thing. It's a fun game more for the setting, I think, than the rules but the rules do work ok. Character creation can be an ... adventure, but so what? You get to make a kickass Runner! Anyhoo, I liked running around committing nefarious acts for pay while blasting away with my exploding round firing shotgun. I mean, who wouldn't like that?
I've also played Battletech, but never beyond a simple scenario or a free for all PVP deal. We used to build custom mechs and then 'test' them by pitting them against each other. Really, it's just an excuse to play a laser firing giant robot. Building mechs can seem sorta daunting, but once you get used to it, you can really fire 'em out. And it's fun. Like, really fun. My friends have actually played through a campaign or two and it seemed really interesting. The furthest I got was one scenario but I really liked how it ran. It's neat. You need to account for all sorts of stuff like range, terrain, etc. But mostly it's about making and playing and killing big robots with bigger guns.
EDIT: Whoops! Neither of those is d20. Shadowrun uses a d6 dice pool and Battletech uses 6 siders as well.
I don't mind if it isn't d20. I think I'd prefer a 3d6 system (like gurps). My wife is notoriously "unlucky".
To be honest I think I'm going to get a gurps game going. Just curious of other people's opinions on systems.
Of course, a D&D board isn't the best place for this question, but I don't belong to any other forums...
I had some fun with the Dragon Age: RPG. It's simple and fun, but it lacks depth, which is why I stick with D&D.
I've also has experience with the Unisystem via the Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG, which is alright, but isn't for everybody.
I've played the Shadowrun and Paladium systems a long time ago, but it was too long ago for me to remember if I liked the systems.
Palladium is the classic fantasy type RPG but a bit more focused on the occult (but not the main subject) and Rifts is somewhat of a post-apocalyptic techno world where the governement has been replaced by fascists and neo-nazi types.
I think we were arguing on rules about half the time and the other half we were trying to figure out what to do with our characters and trying to understand how they work, or making new characters that died during the first encounter.
In perspective, I would not recommend either. Good ideas but really bad systems.
What is it about GURPS, in particular, that you like? Knowing that will give a better idea of what kind of systems will likely appeal to you. Also, are you interested primarily in a holistic game where mechanics are designed heavily around a particular setting or genre (Shadowrun, Marvel) or a more generic system that is largely or wholly setting-independant (D&D, GURPS).
I thought this might come up (I kept it out of the original post for brevity).
I like GURPS because it uses a bell-curve for action resolution (3d6) and it has a point-based character creation system. I do appreciate it's generic/universal aspects, but it isn't my main draw.
I don't necessarily like rolling low being the target, though that's a perception issue and easily remedied (reminds me of THAC0s for some reason). I also don't quite understand combat, as someone said it kind of takes someone to teach it to you and I've yet to actually play a game; and what I've looked at makes me think combat will either be too simple or way too complex (to the point that it is trivial or avoided).
But having said that, I wouldn't mind setting specific games, since if their mechanics are functional the alteration in the die-rolling and character creation will add an extra level of "otherness" that would make me appreciate the game more (hopefully). So for Shadowrun (Cyberpunk) the mechanics are different than Marvel (superhero) and Battletech (Gundam) and Deadlands (Gothic Western).
The mechanics hopefully aid the flavor, but I was just curious what other people had played and their experiences.
I had a friend tell me about Rifts, he said he had enormous fun, but then he described the actual mechanics of it and ultimately I think he realized it wasn't the system he enjoyed, but the other players and genre.
Settings I prefer are non-Star-Wars Space Opera (or Science-Fantasy as I like to call it), high fantasy (D&D is good for this one), and World of Darkness (Cthulu, Vampire, Werewolf, etc). I might also be interested in Steampunk, not sure yet (haven't had enough exposure, just Steamboy and I think Wild Wild West may qualify).
...Not that there's anything wrong with Star Wars. I just don't like playing in heavily canonized campaign-settings (I have the same problems with Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms) and you can't sufficiently reflavor jedi. Also, I can't get my group to agree on which version of Star Wars to play (I like Saga, the main Star Wars fans like 3e RCR).
To sum up (I'm really wordy at 5am, sorry about that):
* Genre-Specific is fine/preferable. I'd like to have alternatives to high fantasy that play differently.
* Setting-Specific with Well Known/Extreme Canon is undesired. (Star Wars, Marvel, etc; though if the system is not inherently tied to the setting I can homebrew/refluff like a m-f-er)
* Point-based character creation is nice. (a la GURPS, or possibly White Wolf; anything not explicitly class-based).
* Single-die action resolution is a no-go. (D&D/d20 has this adequately covered).
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So from everyone's suggestions I think I'll check out Deadlands and revisit Shadowrun.
Anyone have a Setting Neutral (or refluffable) Space-Opera/Sci-Fi suggestion?
It's hard to say whether you'll find combat complex or simple because GURPS can be either complex or simple depending upon what options and how many options you want to use.
One thing which I've found people have a hard time getting used to is the time scale in GURPS. With D&D having 6 second turns, the system assumes that a lot of things happen without actually stating they do. For example, when a D&D character makes an attack using a longbow, the system assumes you knocked an arrow, aimed, and fired. GURPS -with one second turns- doesn't assume much of anything; you'll 'ready' the arrow by drawing it from the quiver; 'ready' the bow by knocking the arrow, and then fire all on seperate turns. (There are ways to speed this up, but I didn't want to get into that.)
The only real problem is that it doesn't have many books as it lacks a large fanbase and the DM probably needs to have played the computer game to understand the setting.
However, there is plenty of play testing on the part of the designers so very little errata and most things are released to the community in pdf before being published so that they can help find any faults. The system also looks really easy to move over to another setting. (Just replace the backgrounds with more races)
It does have kind of a default campaign setting, but it's easy enough to not use it.
It does have a single-die resolution (in fact, everything is a d20 roll--no other dice used), but changing it to 3d6 shouldn't be too much of an issue. Pretty sure it's one of the suggested optional rules somewhere, even.
Although, those systems are very detailed and not for everybody...
Actually, I seldom play RPG's anymore... I play A TON of board wargames though...
I like Mutants & Masterminds. Point-buy superhero game. Generic enough that people use it for other things, though I think the mechanics really are focused on the superhero genre.
It does have kind of a default campaign setting, but it's easy enough to not use it.
It does have a single-die resolution (in fact, everything is a d20 roll--no other dice used), but changing it to 3d6 shouldn't be too much of an issue. Pretty sure it's one of the suggested optional rules somewhere, even.
I like the concept of M&M, but the d20 made me think it was redundant (with d20 modern, cthulu, d&d, etc). If it is actually usable in 3d6 without majory statistical modification I'll check it out. I tried running D&D with 3d6, but everything hit so often it became assumed (static bonuses on 3d6 are much better than on d20s). It wasn't just a straight switch (I made a lot of modifications as far as crits/auto misses go).
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After reading Deadlands character creation and conflict resolution I think I'm definitely going to pick it up. I made a D&D character class for my wife that resolved all it's attacks using a deck of cards both as a damage die and as an effect generator (for example hearts dealt fire damage; various face cards had different effects like follow up damage, vulnerability, burst effects, knockdown), which had daily that had various effects on different poker-hand combinations (Five Card Stud). And of course the devestating 52-card Pick-Up! She really liked that character.
I like the concept of M&M, but the d20 made me think it was redundant (with d20 modern, cthulu, d&d, etc). If it is actually usable in 3d6 without majory statistical modification I'll check it out. I tried running D&D with 3d6, but everything hit so often it became assumed (static bonuses on 3d6 are much better than on d20s). It wasn't just a straight switch (I made a lot of modifications as far as crits/auto misses go).
I haven't actually tried it. Crits/auto misses is one thing you'd have to change.
MnM doesn't use hit points, it uses a saving throw against damage system. So using a bell curve would effect both hitting and actually doing damage.
Let's see, typical attacker with typical equal-level defender needs 10 to hit. Defender needs 15 on the save to avoid damage completely or 11 to avoid significant damage.
Hmm, might need some tweaks (particularly to the damage save DCs) to work properly.
I prefer ICE games such as HARP and RoleMaster.
Although, those systems are very detailed and not for everybody...
Actually, I seldom play RPG's anymore... I play A TON of board wargames though...
RoleMaster seems too complex for some of my players, but I would probably love it.
HARP looks like it may run smoother, but I'm just reading it on wikipedia.
Any comments? Did I just misread which one is more complex? I skimmed a bit...
I like the concept of M&M, but the d20 made me think it was redundant (with d20 modern, cthulu, d&d, etc). If it is actually usable in 3d6 without majory statistical modification I'll check it out. I tried running D&D with 3d6, but everything hit so often it became assumed (static bonuses on 3d6 are much better than on d20s). It wasn't just a straight switch (I made a lot of modifications as far as crits/auto misses go).
I haven't actually tried it. Crits/auto misses is one thing you'd have to change.
MnM doesn't use hit points, it uses a saving throw against damage system. So using a bell curve would effect both hitting and actually doing damage.
Let's see, typical attacker with typical equal-level defender needs 10 to hit. Defender needs 15 on the save to avoid damage completely or 11 to avoid significant damage.
Hmm, might need some tweaks (particularly to the damage save DCs) to work properly.
Yea, the scales are off when you convert target numbers. A DC15 check is about a 14 with 3d6, and DC20 would be about DC17. You can't just subtract a specific number. Also, considerations (for D&D anyway) like do you need to increase/decrease crit rate to balance the increased hit chance (you're going to hit more often, so crits should actually be reduced for damage output over time to stay the same, if you care about that).
My math is probably way off, it was a long while ago when I did the calculations. It is unimportant anyway.
I prefer ICE games such as HARP and RoleMaster.
Although, those systems are very detailed and not for everybody...
Actually, I seldom play RPG's anymore... I play A TON of board wargames though...
RoleMaster seems too complex for some of my players, but I would probably love it.
HARP looks like it may run smoother, but I'm just reading it on wikipedia.
Any comments? Did I just misread which one is more complex? I skimmed a bit...
RM is more complex than your average game...
HARP is a bit simpler...
But there is a RM Express, which is a less detailed (complex) RM.
It's mechanics were very much a precursor for the d20 system but with less reliance on randomness. All rolls are stat(1-10)+skill(1-10)+d10 roll against a DC number. So it does have a bell-curve but two of the three elements informing the curve are dictated by player choice and are not random.
I also like that in the CP2020 system anyone can do pretty much anything. Each class give bonuses to certain things, and access to a single class-specific skill, but no one is denied or banned from certain things. You can be a techie and still be a kick-ass marital artist and gun toting deathmachine.
It also has one of my favourite little RPG rules. To represent ever-improving security software on systems being hacked they have the hacker's warez degrade in effect over time. It's a simple way to keep the hacking "arms race" in place without a runaway difficulty curve completely out of line with the rest of the game's power level that would result from increasing the numbers. It is a very little rule but it is indicative of the smart approach to the game's rules design.
Years ago (c. 1995) I did a fantasy total conversion of the system called Dungeonpunk 1020. Sadly, I don't think I have a copy anymore, though I might recreate it some time just for fun. With the more similar 3e system to draw from now it will likely inform a much better final product.
Check out BESM its a nice system that can be used for SCI FI fantasy and anything in between.
I've heard good reviews of BESM. David Pulver worked on a bit of it, the GURPS 4th Edition suppliments he has written are good, so I imagine BESM would have similar quality in some regards.
I guess I could just check google, which would be a lot easier and faster...
Oh well. Yea?
Yea, much faster. I'll check it out!
I pretend the d20 BESM and the D20 WOD games don't exist much easier for my sanity that way. BESM is a 2d6 system thats all you ever roll is 2d6, combat is opposed rolls attackers attack value+relevant skill versus defenders defense +relevant skill ie melee attack +CV versus DCV+melee defense. Your also wanting to roll low but once you learn the system its very easy to use.
I love the concept of besm, but the system, for my tastes, is far to easily abusable. You need a good GM to keep an eye on slly players. Its like any gurpsy game, this much freedom and there are some crazy cheesy combos out there. But love the system, fun to play and fun to cheese.
+1 for M&M its is surpisingly balanced for a open gurpsy super power builder. For someone who wants the flavor of Mutants and masterminds and the simplicity of BESM try out this INDIE superheroes system called BASH! I've play tested it and it is really streamlined and for the most part very well balanced, some kinds in the wrestling department but there always are, also beware the summoning power it can be a bit broken.
I'll be playing (running actually) a Deadlands Reloaded game this weekend!
I like the system and the setting a lot, but I've only read it. If anyone's interested I'll be posting my thoughts on the playtest afterwards...
I just wish I could find somebody else to run a freaking game. Of anything... so tired of running.
It is much better than Hasbros game...
Anyway, I am looking forward to it. I will probably be either Great Britian(includes France) or Japan, as those two are the most fun to play, IMO...
Is World at War very different?
Is World at War very different?
Different enough...
It really is thousands of times better than A&A...
Is World at War very different?
Different enough...
It really is thousands of times better than A&A...
Is it easier to set up?
Is World at War very different?
Different enough...
It really is thousands of times better than A&A...
Is it easier to set up?
Harder actually
Because France and China have units as well...
If you guys like A&A, then you really should check out World at War by Xeno games...
We don't even play the Hasbro version anymore...
Oh, but you really need an A&A game for the pieces, and the WaW rules only supplement the regular rules...
I find Barbarians of Lemuria the right fit for me. Its a rule-lite system, that allows me to work out the action more quickly, and me to focus more on the narratives then the mechanics. Instead of a huge-ass list of skills with all the side-rules that comes with, BoL list fantasy archetypes (barbarian, pirate, noble, and such) that works like a simple, open-ended skill system (each lists a set of skills, but these are but examples - not the exception!). The spell system is also vary open-ended, and it maintains a sword & sorcery feel. The book comes with a sword & sorcery setting (Lin Carter's Thongor Sage), but you can ignore all that for the rules.
If you had played and enjoyed the Call of Cthulhu rules, then I suggest looking up Runequest.
If you still like the color-coded Marvel Superheroes game, then you can find a number of retro-clones based off of it online, like 4C (4 Color) and ZeFRS (Zeb's Fantasy Roleplaying System) -- both are free!
I hope this was somehow helpful to you.
Unisystem is a point buy system, with traits and disadvantages. Creating your own traits is easy enough (I'm actually using it to homebrew an anime game). Cinematic Unisystem games include Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Evil Dead, and Angel. There is a second, more complicated, version of the unisystem that I have never played (it is used for the game Witchcraft).
I also like Battletech, both the RPG and the non-collectible minis game. Character creation is complicated in the Battletech rpg, but there is an optional point-buy presented in a sourcebook that works just as well.
Admittedly, I don't get to play either of these anymore. I used to play them with my friend (R.I.P.), but I haven't found another rpg group since his passing 3 years ago.
I also like Battletech, both the RPG and the non-collectible minis game.
Which edition: First (cover with Cockpit view at a Rifleman), Second (Cockpit view at a Vulture), or Third (three people sabotaging a 'Mech while in a gunfight)?
Each edition plays vary differently from each other, yet they all - in one way or another - seem vary reminiscent of the classic Traveller game system. To my understanding, Traveller was the archetype for all the levelless, skill-based RPG mechanics that came out after (sans the deadly char-gen).
Hero System: Which is alot like GURPS but better in my humble opinion. It uses 3d6 and is point base system. But I find the basic rules alot more flexable. Though it is a Generic system I do found it works best as a Super Hero game personaly. The biggest problem is that the 6th ed books covers and size make it look like a science text book...and a ugly one at that. But if you can get beyond that and have the money for it it is worth it...and there is a basic rule book out there if you don't have the money.
Rifts: Rifts is a awesome world...the rules are not the best out there but I actualy find less rules arguement because the rules are not that great. And the rules are not as bad as some people make it out to be...alot of the horror stories I have found to be seriously misreading of the rules...sorta like people saying that 4th Ed D&D discourages RP. Anyway it is a good game if your group is not overly ridden with rules lawyers(which is probably true about any game system. Also a mistake that people make is that the US goverment is not replaced by a facist Nazi like goverment. The US goverment is gone...alot of different nations and city states exist...just one happens to be a Nazi like facist state.
Dark Hersey: This is a game based on the Warhammer 40K universe. It is a very simple system that uses a percentage type system. Character creation is simple...and manages variety and balance at the same time very well. And the online character generator is great.
Though there is one trueism I have found it is not so much the system but the people you play with. I mean I can only think of a hand fall of systems that fail sooo badly that not even the best play group can save.
I also like Battletech, both the RPG and the non-collectible minis game.
Which edition: First (cover with Cockpit view at a Rifleman), Second (Cockpit view at a Vulture), or Third (three people sabotaging a 'Mech while in a gunfight)?
Each edition plays vary differently from each other, yet they all - in one way or another - seem vary reminiscent of the classic Traveller game system. To my understanding, Traveller was the archetype for all the levelless, skill-based RPG mechanics that came out after (sans the deadly char-gen).
I used to own the second Battletech rpg (lost it during a move), but never played it. The only one I've played is the third edition, which I still own.
I used to own the second Battletech rpg (lost it during a move), but never played it. The only one I've played is the third edition, which I still own.
I used to play mostly 2nd ed, then I found 3rd ed, but I was not a fan of the life-path charts or the damage system. I eventually gone over to Heavy Gear 2nd ed. I recently found 1st ed Mechwarrior book, but I find that system not to my liking. With mecha-themed games, I just use the Silhouette system because I really enjoy the dice mechanics.
I used to own the second Battletech rpg (lost it during a move), but never played it. The only one I've played is the third edition, which I still own.
I used to play mostly 2nd ed, then I found 3rd ed, but I was not a fan of the life-path charts or the damage system. I eventually gone over to Heavy Gear 2nd ed. I recently found 1st ed Mechwarrior book, but I find that system not to my liking. With mecha-themed games, I just use the Silhouette system because I really enjoy the dice mechanics.
I know what you mean. Personally, I have thought of using the Cinematic Unisystem for the outside the battlemech adventures and the CBT minis rules for stuff involving mechs. Most unisystem skills run from 0 to 10, so the rpg to minis system gunnery skill conversion chart in the rpg book can still be used effectively.