Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rake Feb 09, 2009 11:41:27	Okay, this is a big one. Been waiting to do this one since my Batman RIP thread. This fight is a little different than the arena-style versus threads I've proposed so far, so pay attention. Here goes: For the purposes of this match, Doom and Batman are geared up to current comic-book standards (advantage: Doom). The arena is Gotham (advantage: Batman), and the scale is wider than a straight-up fight. This is a war of attrition, with both sides fighting for control of Gotham. One rule: no time travel. Doom's goal is total control of Gotham City, and Batman's goal is to resist Doom's invasion. It's war! And go!
#2 ixien_kothar Feb 09, 2009 14:24:55	Batman loses simply because you titled the thread "Dr. Doom vs. The Batman" (emphasis mine). If you had titled the thread "Dr. Doom vs. Batman" then I might have had a different answer. GOD, I hate that they put "the" infront of "Batman". It's "Batman", not "The Batman" It's "Wolverine", not "The Wolverine" It's "Superman", not "The Superman" It's "The Hulk", not "Hulk" (got you there!) Note: This is not a dig at you Rake, simply a dig at the fact that they decided "Batman" wasn't good enough any more; to be a real superhero he needs a "The". *throws up* /rant
#3 Armisael Feb 09, 2009 14:36:51	"The" Batman gets schooled harder than a boy in a Victorian boarding school. Batman, however, has a win in his hands. If we assume every single resource from both guys' home turf will be used in Gotham, Bats has Arkham to stall Doomie with, and from there it goes downhill for the Latverian Dictator.
#4 rake Feb 09, 2009 14:39:04	By popular demand, the honorary 'the' has been removed from Batman's name. Carry on.
#5 ixien_kothar Feb 09, 2009 14:43:12	My answer: too close to call. WAY too close to call. If they are both alive at the end, I'd be surprised. Heck, if one was dead and the other wasn't in-a-coma-on-life-support-just-being-a-vegtable-forever then I'd be surprised. Still, I'll give the advantage to Dr. Doom. He didn't go through 8 years of Doom Medical School to be defeated by a non-Dr.
#6 Armisael Feb 09, 2009 15:06:12	Then again, Bats has all of his Rogues gallery to stall Doom. All of them together should greatly dent Doom's power, more than enough to let Bats crush him with some Power Armor.
#7 rake Feb 09, 2009 15:07:21	Then again, Bats has all of his Rogues gallery to stall Doom. All of them together should greatly dent Doom's power, more than enough to let Bats crush him with some Power Armor. No way does Bats win a power armor fight against Doom. No way.
#8 jimprofit Feb 09, 2009 15:09:29	Evidently it depends probably on who gets harrassed less by all the criminals who inhabit Gotham. Doctor Doom's patience would grow thin once he realizes that Batman's greatest enemy, The Joker, isn't some slum lord, or dictator, all his accomplishments are simply the result of his own messedup mind trying to make sense of his obsession with Batman and his own nihilistic existence. Dr. Doom would end up killing The Joker, as well as pretty much every other Akarham Asylum inhabitinent that stood in his way... This might get the praises of Gotham's citizens, putting all these loony toons out of their misery, but not of Batman. Who sees the threat Dr. Doom actually poses, nor Gotham Police, who see him as an even more deranged, less trustworthy Batman. Atleast Batman tries to stay within the confines of the law. Doom makes no such kind gestures... Not to meation whatever villains have been spared are going to realize Dr. Doom is merciless and means business. And whether or not they want to admit it, they're safer with Batman protecting Gotham. They'd rather getting their asses kicked and handcuffed then be a smoldering corpse from an attack by one of the Doombots! So it becomes an all out war for survival, for freedom, as Gotham's baddest, Gotham's police, and Batman all plan and attack Dr. Doom. Would it be enough? Don't know... Doom is unlike anything Batman has faced before. And it's going to endup having that cheesy "We're not so different you and I" line. But I think Batman has the advantage, as he's not just fighting Batman, Gotham police, and a multitude of villains. But Catwoman, Robin, Nightwing, Azarael. Batman may not have the technological nor magickal finnease Doom has, but he has created a philosophy of justice that many different people adhere too. Batman has acheived in some ways what Doom wants but couldn't, becoming an inspiration to everyone.. But like I said, philosophical qhuips and gothic attitude aside.. all Batman characters rely basically on modern technology. Doom is far more advanced, and is not inhibited by petty morality or the loss of loved ones... I think even if Batman did win, he'd lose everything he heald dear to him like Alfred and Robin. And it would change him. Making him much closer to Doom then he'd care to admit..
#9 m-bark Feb 09, 2009 16:27:54	This is a toughy. Doctor Doom is one of Marvel's most accomplished supervillains. He would fairly easily best Lex Luthor even if he lacked the actual superpowers, because whilst his intellect is similarly genius, he is more nefarious. He has beaten many a superhero before, a good deal of them being reminiscent of folks with Superman's powers but Batman's mindset, which is almost always a Double Winner XXL combination with fries. Batman on the other hand is one of DC's best superheroes, and he is super in his normalcy. Sure, he does stuff no Average Joe will be able to mimic (unless you count doing things one does in day-to-day life), but all the super he got in himself, he all got through hard work. He didn't have a ray of sunshine, alien blood, mutagenics or super serums aiding him to get where he is. Furthermore, he is ready to step off the moral high ground and deliver a pounding when appropriate in the name of good. I say it would get well on down to near a tie.
#10 space_dragon Feb 09, 2009 16:31:37	Ooh, hard one. On one hand, anything mortal that goes head to head with a fully powered Doom dies. On the other, if there's anyone who could find a way to sabotage Doom's operations and make him vulnerable, it would be Batman. My guess is that Batman harasses Doom (by waging a guerrilla war against his infrastructure) until Doom decides Gotham isn't worth his effort and leaves. Odds are, there will be significant civilian casualties by that point (and by significant I mean tens of thousands). If control of Gotham is what's being fought over, Batman wins, but only at great cost.
#11 Alter_Boy Feb 09, 2009 16:47:41	Both men are genius-level smart, make great use of technology, are intricate plotters, capable of striking both fear and admiration in their neighbours, regularly round up criminals, and both are loners. Batman has his Robins, the Justice League, and the Gotham Police Force. Doom has screwed everybody in his universe, so it's assumed he'll have no outside help. However, Doom has held diplomatic immunity at certain points of his life, so it's possible that he could waltz into Gotham, hold a Latverian Ball to lure Gotham's richest people together, and get an audience with Bruce Wayne. Let's talk strategy. How will Doom conquer Gotham? Why would he conquer Gotham? Best guess would be a beach head for an eventual invasion of the U.S. So let's assume that he uses magic and technology to keep meddlers out (Hitler used the Spear of Destiny to keep Superman out of Europe, why not Doom?). Let's also assume that, since he chose Gotham and not an empty field, he wants the city to exist. So no nukes, no genocide. However, Doom is a dictator akin to Saddam Hussein, so I can see him utilizing the scum of Gotham to kill the opposition and keep the peace. The Penguin and Riddler seem worthwhile henchmen, with Bane and Killer Kroc as hired muscle. The Joker? A wildcard: he'll want to see both men suffer. How does Batman defend Gotham? Doom will nationalize anything of worth within the Gotham city limits, so Wayne Enterprises can't last in Gotham as Bruce's piggybank. Even if Doom doesn't know Batman's identity, he'll sure try to arrest or deport Bruce Wayne ASAP. So if Batman wants to beat Doom, he'll have to stockpile a lot of toys in the Batcave, fake his death, and wage a Roarsch-style campaign of vigilantism. Really, if Batman doesn't stop Doom from landing his Doombots and securing the borders of the city, he doesn't stand a chance. Doom has an entire army on his side, which he's designed to fight the Thing and the Invisible Woman. If they're fully operational, Batman cannot beat them. Plus, there's the issue of Doombots. If Batman can't tell which Doom is which, he'll be exposing himself two, three, four times before he gets the right one. Nope, unless Batman gets his personal army of caped crusaders to hit Doom within 24 hours of launching an assault, he doesn't stand a chance. And I don't think Batman could find that sneaky son of a Latverian. Heck, he could be in Latveria, send ICBMs full of Doombots and planding platforms that could wipe Batman off the map.
#12 wordserpent Feb 09, 2009 18:51:55	Dr. Doom kills Batman via an elaborate plot. He successfully takes over Gotham city. However a mugger stabs him in the eye with a switchblade, while Doom is laughing at the man, and kills him. The mugger would have been caught by Batman but due to a twist of fate Dr Doom eliminated that possibility...
#13 baneofelves Feb 09, 2009 20:02:45	Ironic, innit?
#14 skyodin Feb 10, 2009 2:54:51	I am not an expert on this topic, having never read a comic with Doctor Doom in it, but I have seen this discussion before: Part 1 Part 2 Not sure I agree though.
#15 rake Feb 10, 2009 7:51:34	I am not an expert on this topic, having never read a comic with Doctor Doom in it, but I have seen this discussion before: Part 1 Part 2 Not sure I agree though. That's pretty fantastic. And a fairly good assessment of how the match might go. A friend and I totally stole this from a comic book fansite. I forgot 8-bit Theatre did it, too! Neat.
#16 n0-1_h3r3 Feb 10, 2009 15:51:19	Batman loses simply because you titled the thread "Dr. Doom vs. The Batman" (emphasis mine). If you had titled the thread "Dr. Doom vs. Batman" then I might have had a different answer. GOD, I hate that they put "the" infront of "Batman". Bear in mind that, regarding Batman, he presents himself as an urban myth as much as an actual hero - he's there to scare criminals witless, not help old ladies cross the street. It's "The Batman" in the same way that small children might be scared of "The Bogeyman"... those who know him well, his allies and enemies alike, will know him as Batman, but most criminals don't have that kind of personal relationship (be it slightly fearful respect, or lunatic enmity) with The Dark Knight. Superman, Wolverine... those are names. Batman is a title as much as anything else, a nebulous identity for the thing that preys on criminals, superstitious and cowardly lot that they are. To the matter at hand... The Rogue's Gallery is the biggest problem here. The Joker in particular has often made the claim that Gotham is his, and brutally demonstrated that to any who challenge him (as he did to Hush in Hush Returns), and is often seen as the top dog in Gotham's twisted underworld (Edward Nygma/Riddler is a little more second string, and has made attempts to go legitimate and turn his incredible but puzzle-obsessed intellect to the life of a Private Investigator, cashing in on his criminal reputation; Oswald Cobblepot/Penguin is a fence more than a thief these days, and it's a badly-kept secret that he's worked as an informant for Batman from time to time; Two-Face is so inconsistent as to be a non-issue in most cases; Catwoman has jumped from thief to anti-hero to hero and back again so many times that it's hard to keep track... and the rest are freaks and thugs with delusions of grandeur, or they operate on a different scale to just a single city). Whatever an outside aggressor may try, he'll have to contend with the Rogue's Gallery, who don't generally play well with others and will rabidly fight back against any encroachment onto what they believe to be "their territory". The Bat himself? Well, for a self-styled lone vigilante, he certainly has a big family. Nightwing (the finest acrobat in the world, and a strong leader in his own right, having led the Teen Titans as Robin and Nightwing, and then moved on to lead the Outsiders in Batman's absence), Robin III (Tim Drake isn't as physically capable as his predecessors, but he's got an amazing mind and an aptitude for detective work that may even surpass that of his mentor/foster father some day... and Bruce knows this), Batgirl II (depending on timeline; Cassandra Cain is one of the top three martial artists in the world, with an aptitude for combat that borders on the metahuman)... And that's before we get to allies. Oracle provides an immense and invaluable strategic asset, providing intelligence and communication to a considerable number of heroes. With access to the entire array of Wayne Enterprises' satellites (plus any others she can hack into), and one of the most sophisticated computer systems in the world, she is one of the most valuable assets available to Batman during any large-scale crisis. She also brings with her the utility of her own team, the Birds of Prey (whose roster has varied over the years, but none of the BoP are to be dismissed). Batman has the obvious - the Justice League (and the Justice Society, for that matter) - but that's like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. This is still Gotham, so we'll keep things smaller. Still, Robin is team leader for the Teen Titans, and Nightwing can bring in the Outsiders (a team that Batman formed in the first place to do the 'dirty work' that more public teams like the JLA and JSA can't be seen doing). As mentioned above, Oracle's Birds of Prey are a valuable asset as well - past members have included the likes of Power Girl and Big Barda, while the current line-up contains Misfit, who may well be the single most powerful teleporter alive. His financial resources aren't an issue - Wayne Enterprises is a multinational that survived Gotham being abandoned by the US Government and declared a "No-Man's Land" after the earthquake that all but destroyed the city. Similarly, his 'mission' resources aren't limited to just the Batcave, but to an assortment of bases scattered across the city. Strategically, Batman is very active - he looks for trouble every night, and actively wages war on the criminal element of Gotham (as opposed to, say, Superman, who simply responds to incidents), and has extensive contingency plans covering a wide variety of situations (such as hypothetically instigating a gang war in Gotham that would leave one of his aliases as the sole criminal authority in the city - the only reason that plan failed when implemented was that it was implemented by someone else without telling him). Whatever Victor von Doom attempts, he won't find it easy. Though, in all likelihood, the actual confrontation would be more like the Batman vs Captain America "fight" in JLA/The Avengers - each briefly evaluates the abilities of the other, then decides that victory would be too costly, so they don't bother actually fighting.