Religious Test? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Religious Test?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
EscherEnigma
Jan 07, 2011 14:26:38 [link]

Seems the army's gotten itself into trouble with Article 6 clause 3 of the Constitution.
#2
Robin_Hoodlum
Jan 07, 2011 14:39:36 While I am all for soldiers practicing their individual religion (or non-religion, as the case may be) and/or believing in a god, I have to be against it being "required".
I simply cannot see how someone thought that was a good idea.

I know some, if not most, of you have heard the old saying "There are no atheists in foxholes", but requiring a belief in a higher power in order to serve your country is a bad idea. Not only because of the Constitution, but it also lessens the manpower available.
#3
boraxe
Jan 07, 2011 14:50:40
While I am all for soldiers practicing their individual religion (or non-religion, as the case may be) and/or believing in a god, I have to be against it being "required".
I simply cannot see how someone thought that was a good idea.

Since this BS program was "designed by the same psychologist whose work heavily influenced the psychological aspects of the Bush administration's torture program" it's pretty clear the creator has no interest whatsoever in doing what is a good idea (or morally correct, for that matter).

I know some, if not most, of you have heard the old saying "There are no atheists in foxholes", but requiring a belief in a higher power in order to serve your country is a bad idea. Not only because of the Constitution, but it also lessens the manpower available.

Thankfully that old truism is not true at all. It's funny how the people in power claiming to most venerate the Constitution are the ones quickest to all over it.

After DADT, I can think of few official policies more likely to hurt unit moral and cohesion than this. It's bad for the men, it's bad for the army, it's bad for the war and it's bad for the Nation.
#4
wodenson
Jan 07, 2011 15:13:54 The courts will put the kibosh on this, if it gets that far ...

Truly bad idea.
#5
zombie_babies
Jan 07, 2011 15:15:05 So to stop PTSD related suicides, the answer isn't to lessen deployments, cut deployment time, provide better counseling after deployment, not fight it when PTSD is given as a diagnosis (which they do), etc, it's to make sure they score high enough on a spirituality test. Wikileaks task force, man. Wikileaks task force.
#6
modern_iconoclast
Jan 07, 2011 16:44:35 For God and Country, heh.
Taken too litterally maybe.
#7
salla
Jan 07, 2011 17:01:50
The courts will put the kibosh on this, if it gets that far ...

Truly bad idea.

I agree. Hopefully even Scalia will see this is a horrible idea.
#8
evilleknight
Jan 08, 2011 4:46:15 Spirituality has nothing to do with a persons mental state. I was an atheist while deployed to Afghanistan and near the end of the deployment I descided to read about alternative religions such as wicca and neo-paganism. It was all pretty interesting. In the end I am still an atheist. I am sure that if I had taken this test I would have passed all of it except for the spiritual section.

With that said, I have PTSD. Not because I didn't believe in a god, but because of the horror of war and the near death experiences that I had. This program will fail miserably with or without the spiritual section of the test. The reason it will fail is because PTSD is not a weakness, it is a natural mental responce to an unnatural set of actions, ie war. Not everyone developes it, but most have at least a small amount of PTSD after a war zone deployment. I say that from experience.
#9
bone_naga
Jan 08, 2011 22:15:16
So to stop PTSD related suicides, the answer isn't to lessen deployments, cut deployment time, provide better counseling after deployment, not fight it when PTSD is given as a diagnosis (which they do), etc, it's to make sure they score high enough on a spirituality test. Wikileaks task force, man. Wikileaks task force.

Yeah, typical Army mentality. Whenever something goes wrong, create a class, briefing, survey, or other form of useless enterprise that won't fix the problem, but at least when the media runs the story the officer being interviewed can throw his hands up and say "we did all that we could".

And having taken that test, it is absolute bullshit and completely useless for any purpose whatsoever.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 EscherEnigma Jan 07, 2011 14:26:38	[link] Seems the army's gotten itself into trouble with Article 6 clause 3 of the Constitution.
#2 Robin_Hoodlum Jan 07, 2011 14:39:36	While I am all for soldiers practicing their individual religion (or non-religion, as the case may be) and/or believing in a god, I have to be against it being "required". I simply cannot see how someone thought that was a good idea. I know some, if not most, of you have heard the old saying "There are no atheists in foxholes", but requiring a belief in a higher power in order to serve your country is a bad idea. Not only because of the Constitution, but it also lessens the manpower available.
#3 boraxe Jan 07, 2011 14:50:40	While I am all for soldiers practicing their individual religion (or non-religion, as the case may be) and/or believing in a god, I have to be against it being "required". I simply cannot see how someone thought that was a good idea. Since this BS program was "designed by the same psychologist whose work heavily influenced the psychological aspects of the Bush administration's torture program" it's pretty clear the creator has no interest whatsoever in doing what is a good idea (or morally correct, for that matter). I know some, if not most, of you have heard the old saying "There are no atheists in foxholes", but requiring a belief in a higher power in order to serve your country is a bad idea. Not only because of the Constitution, but it also lessens the manpower available. Thankfully that old truism is not true at all. It's funny how the people in power claiming to most venerate the Constitution are the ones quickest to all over it. After DADT, I can think of few official policies more likely to hurt unit moral and cohesion than this. It's bad for the men, it's bad for the army, it's bad for the war and it's bad for the Nation.
#4 wodenson Jan 07, 2011 15:13:54	The courts will put the kibosh on this, if it gets that far ... Truly bad idea.
#5 zombie_babies Jan 07, 2011 15:15:05	So to stop PTSD related suicides, the answer isn't to lessen deployments, cut deployment time, provide better counseling after deployment, not fight it when PTSD is given as a diagnosis (which they do), etc, it's to make sure they score high enough on a spirituality test. Wikileaks task force, man. Wikileaks task force.
#6 modern_iconoclast Jan 07, 2011 16:44:35	For God and Country, heh. Taken too litterally maybe.
#7 salla Jan 07, 2011 17:01:50	The courts will put the kibosh on this, if it gets that far ... Truly bad idea. I agree. Hopefully even Scalia will see this is a horrible idea.
#8 evilleknight Jan 08, 2011 4:46:15	Spirituality has nothing to do with a persons mental state. I was an atheist while deployed to Afghanistan and near the end of the deployment I descided to read about alternative religions such as wicca and neo-paganism. It was all pretty interesting. In the end I am still an atheist. I am sure that if I had taken this test I would have passed all of it except for the spiritual section. With that said, I have PTSD. Not because I didn't believe in a god, but because of the horror of war and the near death experiences that I had. This program will fail miserably with or without the spiritual section of the test. The reason it will fail is because PTSD is not a weakness, it is a natural mental responce to an unnatural set of actions, ie war. Not everyone developes it, but most have at least a small amount of PTSD after a war zone deployment. I say that from experience.
#9 bone_naga Jan 08, 2011 22:15:16	So to stop PTSD related suicides, the answer isn't to lessen deployments, cut deployment time, provide better counseling after deployment, not fight it when PTSD is given as a diagnosis (which they do), etc, it's to make sure they score high enough on a spirituality test. Wikileaks task force, man. Wikileaks task force. Yeah, typical Army mentality. Whenever something goes wrong, create a class, briefing, survey, or other form of useless enterprise that won't fix the problem, but at least when the media runs the story the officer being interviewed can throw his hands up and say "we did all that we could". And having taken that test, it is absolute bullshit and completely useless for any purpose whatsoever.