| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1The-Mage-KingNov 29, 2009 13:21:04 | And I need some advice on the matter. Which army, what books... You know, the info I could use... Personally, thanks to research done on the time eating fiend called TV Tropes, I think Necrons or Tyranids might be my style. Or maybe Orks... |
| #2CCSNov 29, 2009 14:44:49 | My best advice on the subject (and I've been playing both WH/WH40k) is this: All armies can win games. So start with whatever army you like the look of. This is very important because this games as much about the painting & models as it is winning. (maybe more so!) And no matter wich army you start with you're A) going to drop a large chunk of change on it, B) Get thrashed as you learn to play. So you may as well enjoy the pricey models you own.... The 2nd largest thing you should consider is $. Can you afford your 1st choice army at the moment? Some armies simply cost alot more to field than others - Tyranid, Ork, & Imperiel Gaurd are good examples of this. Depending upon what you want in these armies, it's real easy to spend nearly double what say a SM player will. And over in the WHFB side of things I have a 3k pt Wood Elf army that's a veritable blackhole as far as cost goes.... Btw, the Tyranids are due for a new codex in early 2010. |
| #3The-Mage-KingNov 29, 2009 14:48:23 | So there are no special qualities that one army has and the others don't? |
| #4Ragnar_LodbrokNov 29, 2009 20:18:55 | Well, for qualities... I don't know 40k well, since I don't play it (yet). Necrons can (sometimes) come back from the dead and get some nasty weapons; 'Nids are (as far as I know) very swarmy and, as has been mentioned, are due for an update in early 2010; and Orks seem just plain fun and, if Fantasy Orcs & Goblins are any indication, are more luck-based than other armies and are very amusing. They are not accurate when shooting, but when they hit, they hit hard. |
| #5Cpt_MichaNov 30, 2009 7:52:58 | My best advice on the subject (and I've been playing both WH/WH40k) is this: That's perilously close to a lie. If you dice jesus sure some armies can win games. Short of that though there are several armies in 40k which have no realistic chance against the current edition armies. God Imperial Guard eat cash. They eat it like no one's business. GW loves IG players because of how many minis we have to buy. *Though I stopped buying GW vehicles for my Guard long ago. I just buy 1:48th scale models now for my IG* Necrons are surprisingly expensive, if you buy their models for them, particularly with the almost Mandatory Immortals. Personal recommendation? Just buy battleforces for the Necrons and convert extra Warriors into Immortals. So there are no special qualities that one army has and the others don't? There are several, for example Necrons are supposed to be unrelenting and never stay dead. They are surprisingly mobile when built properly, but overall their weaponry isn't anything to write home about. What makes them good in theory is the We'll be back special rule. I say in theory because, presently Necrons don't even get their WBB rolls half the time against a competent opponent. This is mostly because of 40k's presently craptastic combat resolution rules. I can elaborate on this later if you like. Tau, are supposed to be mobile heavy shootists. Unfortunately, they aren't very mobile compared to Eldar, or the current Imperial Guard and their shooting really doesn't make up for this. The Tau though, have a very unique playstyle which has kept me playing them even though frankly this is the worst the army has ever been. *Thanks core rule book changes!* Imperial Guard, have several viable playstyles. The footslogging horde, which is all about massed bodies and guns. The Mechanized regiment, which almost everyone has a transport, Armored divisions in which you field more tanks than god, Ride of the Valkyries, in which alot of hard core Veteran units are riding in flying gunships, and hybrid lists of all the above. Space Marines are kind of the jack of all trades, that lean heavy on assault. They are also Gws poster child and have many different paint jobs... I mean codexes that supposedly make them different even though they don't. Just buy the Space Wolf book as it's the best marine dex right now and the most versatile. Chaos Space Marines, they are space marines just Emo. Eldar, Space Ninja Pirate Elves. And yes, their playstyle more or less follows that philosophy. Stupidly mobile, capable of devastating surprise attack with over specialized troops which are unparalled at what they are good at. Sisters of Battle, are kind of like Sm but have Faith which allows them to do some pretty freaky stuff on the battlefield. They tend to lean more on being Shooting based. They are actually pretty cool. Dark Eldar, Slaver Pirate Elfs. Tactics similar to eldar but even more hit and running if that were possible. Tyranid, are getting a new army book this January I think but traditionally they either run with lots of Godzilla like monsters, or lots of gribbly hordes. presently the Monster build is their best. It focuses alot on shooting, more than you'd think an army of Zerg/Aliens/Starship troopers would. Orks, are an assualty version of the IG in alot of ways. More primitive, but more numbers generally.Yes they have the Waaagh rule. If you already play Orcs from fantasy, you've already got a few good ork type models! |
| #6The-Mage-KingNov 30, 2009 9:14:05 | Hm... Sounds like Necrons, Eldar, or Orks are my style then... Thanks for the advice, as I'm just starting to think about the Game Workshop games... |
| #7Cpt_MichaNov 30, 2009 9:20:08 | Necrons are alot of fun, once you get the hang of them. I've been playing them for a few years now so if you go with them feel free to drop me a line and I'll try to help you out with them. And what's even better is they are fairly easy to learn how to play. I've got alot of experience against Eldar opponents too so I know what makes a good Eldar army work. Orks, are considered by and large the most powerful army or second most powerful (depending on if who you are asking has ever had to deal with Two Lash Princes in a Chaos marine army or not) depending on who you ask. |
| #8The-Mage-KingNov 30, 2009 9:28:08 | Which books would you recommend for the Eldar? And which figures? |
| #9Cpt_MichaNov 30, 2009 9:43:13 |
Well there is the Core rulebook obviously, and the Eldar Codex. As far as a good starting army, I'd say two boxes of Dire Avengers, a box of Striking Scorpions, a box of Fire Dragons, a Fire prism, Warwalkers (2-3), and a couple of Wave Serpents. You'll also want a Farseer, and possibly an Autarch as your HQ choices. That's for a full 1500 point army or close to it. For something abit smaller and more newbie friendly, some War Walkers, 2 boxes of Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, Farseer, and wave serpent will get you started. It's a pretty flexible army build, that gives you a decent range of options in battle. The Fire Dragons are your anti tank (and in my opinion the best at it in the game) they also do a bang up job against Heavy Infantry, the Farseer is mandatory practically because of how good his psychic powers all are. The Dire avengers, give you a mix of good anti infantry, and mobility and make up the core of your army. Warwalkers, provide heavy fire support with the option to take things like Scatter Lasers and Brightlances. |
| #10The-Mage-KingNov 30, 2009 9:54:01 | About how much am I looking at? Couple of hundred? |
| #11cherubaddonNov 30, 2009 9:55:32 | I.) I know this is the advice you're probably not looking for, but I'll give it anyway: at least look at Warhammer Fantasy. 40k has better flavour, no question, but after five years of playing 40k, I feel it getting stale. Like I've tried out every tactic, every army, every unit. It's the simple fact that the 40k rulesystem, as opposed to say, WFHB, Epic: Armageddon, or even the simple-to-learn/hard-to-master Battlefleet Gothic, is highly simplistic in the way rules interact with each other. On the other hand, there are a lot of long-time fans who don't seem to feel the same way, so I'll present it as just what is: an opinion. II.) How modular do you want your army to be? I ask, because the two armies you mentioned represent the two extremes here. Necrons have one armour choice, one HQ choice, one troop choice, and a few nice Elites. That means that most Necron armies look pretty much alike (well, except for the nouveau-riche beginners who think they can win with three monoliths and twenty warriors). Not necessarily a bad thing, but if you want to give your army a personal style, this shouldn't be your first choice. Not quite as extreme, but going the same direction are Space Marines and Dark Eldar. The Tyranids, on the other hand, are the exact opposite: from the 200-model swarm army, to the unbeatable monster army comprised solely of multi-wound models (yes, I've fought that), everything is workable. In the same vein are Orks and Eldar. III.) How good a wargamer are you/how much of a challenge are you willing to take on? I haven't really kept track of the recent developments, but I recall Necrons being all but overpowered when they first came out. Now, with the power slide in the new codices, they are beatable, if not weak (haven't fought them since 3rd edition, so this is guesswork based on the looks of the codices). Tyranids are, and have always been, a powerful army. Space Marines are a favourite beginner's army, but actually a lot more challenging to play effectively than, say, Imperial Guard. Finally, steer clear of obscure Eldar army lists and ESPECIALLY of the Dark Eldar, unless you really want a challenge. They are HARD to play (but they own when you know how to). IV.) While apparently not as hardcore a 40k vet as the Captain, I'll contradict him here: I've seen each and every army win several times, without any dice magic going on. Then, I've never been to high-end tournaments, but if you play it for your friendly games at home/local hobby store, you can seriously play anything, you will have a fair chance. Some may be harder to pull off than others, but those generally reward you when you do manage it (Dark Eldar are seen as weak, but I remember a guy playing them who would spectacularly annihilate any army facing him with minimal losses). V.) Based on the fact that you were into D&D before 40k, I'll just assume that you, like me, are more of a roleplayer than a wargamer. If this is true, disregard the aforementioned advice. Go here, read up on the armies, and pick whichever wins your heart. It's what I did, and though I never made a very good player, neither did I ever repent my choice. If you just play the game for fun, the best recommendation I can give you is to choose the army which just "feels" right to you. Best of luck. |
| #12Cpt_MichaNov 30, 2009 9:59:03 | 281 if you buy from gamesworkshop for the starting army. You can get cheaper usually off of Ebay though. Or Thewarstore.com (20 percent cheaper through the Warstore usually) 1 Farseer 1 Fire Dragons box 2 Dire avengers boxes 1 Wave Serpent 2 Warwalkers 1 Fireprism Eldar codex. I'm pretty sure that's around a 1000 point army. I don't have my Eldar book handy at the moment but from what I remember it seems about right. Ideally though you want two wave serpents with this list. |
| #13Cpt_MichaNov 30, 2009 10:12:31 |
III you must be talking about 3rd edition, because I've never seen Necrons dominate the game. Maybe back then when all the armies were poorly designed. But in 4th they were about right. In 5th they are terrible bad right now. Assault=phase out. Vehicles are another way to stop them dead now. What makes the Crons so bad now is that everyone typically can one up them in almost every way and they are almost totally inffective against vehicles now. IV Tau, and Necrons are two of the worst but aren't as bad as GKs. (which were never that good to start with but man they are even worse now) Most of the late 4e armies though are pretty well balanced up against the 5e released counter parts though. Once you get to the more advanced play levels Necrons and Tau in particular are really gimped. Eldar are strong throughout the play levels I think which is why I recommend them actually as a starter's army. At least against the people I've played against over the years. V Lexicanum is awesome. It's always a favorite place for me to look up the 40k story. |
| #14The-Mage-KingNov 30, 2009 10:19:46 | Alright... It appears that Eldar are the best choice for me to play... |
| #15Cpt_MichaNov 30, 2009 10:20:30 | Anytime. |
| #16williamhm75Nov 30, 2009 15:48:24 | I'm also thinking of getting back into 40k this time with Chaos Marines, but I heard that dark eldar are getting a new codex sometime so not sure. Would 2 squads of noise marines and 2 squads of thousand sons be a good place to start? |
| #17Cpt_MichaDec 01, 2009 6:44:42 | I'm also thinking of getting back into 40k this time with Chaos Marines, but I heard that dark eldar are getting a new codex sometime so not sure. Would 2 squads of noise marines and 2 squads of thousand sons be a good place to start? Noise marines are awesome. The Tsons not so much believe it or not. (Due to how much cover there is now mostly)I'd get two Noise Marine boxes, and a battleforce myself. If you are willing to spend abit more, okay quite abit more the Strike Force is a very good investment as well which can easily get you a good starting army. The nicest thing about it, is that you won't be needing to buy anymore vehicles and it gets you five terminators. The Downside to the strike force? it gives you a Vindicator. There are alot of CSM players that will swear by them, but I'd rather have Obliterators myself. It's still a powerful combo though with the Lash of Submission. (Read best army in the game due to that combo actually, though Space Wolves are a close second) Which you will be buying if you are Chaos Marines, Mech Marines is pretty much the hands down best way to play Chaos. Tips for Mech Marines, is target overload. You get enough Rhinos, and Armor out there they won't be able to actually pop everything. Infact if they aren't smart or experienced enough and realize the Rhinos are the real threat, your entire army can get to their lines and you will flat out maul your opponent up close. Land Raiders soak fire. Lots and lots of fire. Another powerful list is something like this 2 Terminator squads, 2 Noise Marine Squads, with Rhinos, some Demons, A Sorcerer in Terminator armor to go with his Terminator buddies, and Raptors. That list is pretty scary too because it mitigates one of the biggest flaws of being an Elite non Eldar army, and having weakish transports. The biggest downside? If you have bad scatter rolls you could lose most of your army without your enemy having fired a single round at your units. If I were a CSM player I'd run this list because I do really really well on scatter rolls. You don't see this one floating around too much out there, but everytime I've played against it or a variation of it, it's been a close run game. Assuming my opponent doesn't scatter and get his units killed. The Dark Eldar have been "just around the corner!" for at least six years that I know of (as long as I've been in the hobby) so really I would take any Dark Eldar rumors with a very big bag of salt. I think games workshop squat them but just haven't told anyone yet personally. Personally I'm debating between more Tau stuff, or some Kitech models for my Imperial Guard. For my Tau, I need more Fire Warriors, and a new Devilfish (okay I don't need a new fish but one of my existing ones is just SO ugly I can't look at it much longer). For my Ig I still need 2 more vehicles, if I get the two kitech Bradleys, or alternatively I'll get a pair of Marders. Those other two vehicles though would be artillery vehicles, assuming I can find the model kits. Firewarriors and a Fish, or two transports. Tough call. |
| #18williamhm75Dec 01, 2009 16:50:48 | I was thinking smaller squads and using razor backs and bikes. More of a hard fast hitting mobile force. I need to look at the current rule book and take a closer look at the chaos marine codex. The only vechile other than the razor backs I was going to use was going to be a defiler. I think smaller squads backed up by razor backs could allow me to be more places at once and field more heavy weapons and special weapons. |
| #19WolfLordBranDec 01, 2009 19:52:21 | Just so you know, Chaos worshipping scum doesn't get Razorbacks. Those are a loyalist only toy. You get Daemons, Defilers, and all sorts of evil thingies, we get a Rhino with a big gun on it. |
| #20williamhm75Dec 01, 2009 20:21:35 | Just so you know, Chaos worshipping scum doesn't get Razorbacks. Those are a loyalist only toy. You get Daemons, Defilers, and all sorts of evil thingies, we get a Rhino with a big gun on it. Thats weird when I looked through the chaos codex I could have sworn I saw razor backs huh oh well I hate rhinos worsed transport in the game almost no weaponry and paper armour. A mortar can take one out. |
| #21Cpt_MichaDec 02, 2009 11:56:51 |
Are you joking?! Rhinos are actually one of the best in the game now. They cost so little points for what they allow you to do. and their side armor more than makes up for it (11) add that they can deimmobilize themselves and smoke launchers and you have an awesome little cheap transport. Once you get 4 rhinos, and a Defiler or two out there, your opponent will suffer from target overload. (Unless it's my Imperial guard.. and that's still a tough call) Rhino armor is 11, 11 10. Which is better than my Chimeras as 12, 10, 10. And my Chimeras are easily worth their points at 55. Your Rhinos are cheap, just remember to keep them that way and they'll do wonders. Vehicles since 5th came out got alot more resiliant, and all of the transports have gone down in point costs. Making them almost a no brainer if you have the option. Bike armies do pretty well but they can be really tricky to play. In my opinion the best way to field bikes, is either with the Icon of Nurgle, or the Icon of Khorne. The biggest problem with bikes of course is the expensiveness of bikes. I am 98 percent sure Chaos doesn't have the razorback now. But I won't swear to it. |
| #22boj0Dec 02, 2009 11:58:54 | Mobility seems to be super big in 5th |
| #23Cpt_MichaDec 02, 2009 12:02:39 | It very much is. For the not CC armies they need to be mech to stay away from the Deep Striking, jump infantry, or mech assault armies, while the flip side needs it to get close to the shooting stuff. Cover and mobility are very important in this edition. Indirect fire has also come into it's own in this edition. |
| #24graddlinDec 02, 2009 12:05:32 | Mobility is very important, yes, but psycher ability -or so I see it- is also a pretty important part of the equation. I field a Tyranid army (yes, they are a small camp fire into which I dump my money), and the Zoenthropes (tyranid psycher/sorcerers) really carry the other units (from my experience, of course). The Genestealers are pretty nice to. Take care, friends. |
| #25WolfLordBranDec 02, 2009 13:55:52 | The tanks you're thinking of Will are Rhinos upgraded to have additional pintle-mounted weapons like Havoc Launchers and Combi-Weapons. According to fluff, the Razorback was created Post-Heresy as a weapon to fight Traitor Marines specifically. The Stronos pattern, the one with TL-Plasma Gun and Lascannon is the original model and was best suited to killing heretics. Viva la Astartes! *howls* |
| #26joni-sanDec 02, 2009 21:04:59 | Rhinos RHINOS!? Our enemies hide in METAL BOXES! The cowards! The fools! |
| #27graddlinDec 02, 2009 22:37:12 | The tanks you're thinking of Will are Rhinos upgraded to have additional pintle-mounted weapons like Havoc Launchers and Combi-Weapons. According to fluff, the Razorback was created Post-Heresy as a weapon to fight Traitor Marines specifically. The Stronos pattern, the one with TL-Plasma Gun and Lascannon is the original model and was best suited to killing heretics. It is better to die for the Emporer than to live for yourself. Take care, friend. |
| #28WolfLordBranDec 03, 2009 14:05:25 | The tanks you're thinking of Will are Rhinos upgraded to have additional pintle-mounted weapons like Havoc Launchers and Combi-Weapons. According to fluff, the Razorback was created Post-Heresy as a weapon to fight Traitor Marines specifically. The Stronos pattern, the one with TL-Plasma Gun and Lascannon is the original model and was best suited to killing heretics. In faith there is purity, in purity there is the Emperor. For Russ and the Allfather! |
| #29graddlinDec 03, 2009 14:11:04 | The tanks you're thinking of Will are Rhinos upgraded to have additional pintle-mounted weapons like Havoc Launchers and Combi-Weapons. According to fluff, the Razorback was created Post-Heresy as a weapon to fight Traitor Marines specifically. The Stronos pattern, the one with TL-Plasma Gun and Lascannon is the original model and was best suited to killing heretics. HAHAHA! Suffer not the alien to live! Cleanse! Purge! Kill! Take care, friend. |
| #30Ragnar_LodbrokDec 03, 2009 17:53:15 | Needs more Ork. Orkz iz da best! WAAAGH! |
| #31WolfLordBranDec 03, 2009 18:13:00 | Needs more Ork. Yer, dat's reel proppa. Only fing iz dat ya furgot ter type it in green, ya smelly git! WAAAGH! Da Orkz! WAAAGH! |
| #32williamhm75Dec 03, 2009 21:28:36 | I havent looked at the new eddition rule book will have to do so, but mobility has always been important but yeah if rhinos are cheaper then they will be worth it. I was thinking of going with a defiler rhino for each squad, with 2 squads noise marines and 2 squads of regular chaos marines or two squads of regular marines. Added to that a squad of raptors, 2 squads of bikes. For melee it will be 1 or 2 squads of lesser demons. I think that should give me a highly mobile force that can pour out a decent amount of fire power. Oh BTW FOR CHAOS, The Emperor is a false god. He is nothing more than a husk. |
| #33Ragnar_LodbrokDec 03, 2009 21:36:39 | WAAAGH! Krump da Beakies! An' da squishy 'umies too! WAAAGH! |
| #34Cpt_MichaDec 04, 2009 7:15:01 | I havent looked at the new eddition rule book will have to do so, but mobility has always been important but yeah if rhinos are cheaper then they will be worth it. I was thinking of going with a defiler rhino for each squad, with 2 squads noise marines and 2 squads of regular chaos marines or two squads of regular marines. Added to that a squad of raptors, 2 squads of bikes. For melee it will be 1 or 2 squads of lesser demons. I think that should give me a highly mobile force that can pour out a decent amount of fire power. It'll definitely work for you. Consider getting a Sorcerer and the Lash of submission. Even if you don't use alot of blast weapons it's incredibly useful. (Especially since you are going with a melee heavy build) For glory, for honour, for Cadia, and for the Emperor! |
| #35graddlinDec 04, 2009 9:09:39 | Needs more Ork. FILTHY GREENSKIN SCUM! Cleanse the heretic! Purge the Alien! Take care, friend. |
| #36graddlinDec 04, 2009 9:13:55 | I havent looked at the new eddition rule book will have to do so, but mobility has always been important but yeah if rhinos are cheaper then they will be worth it. I was thinking of going with a defiler rhino for each squad, with 2 squads noise marines and 2 squads of regular chaos marines or two squads of regular marines. Added to that a squad of raptors, 2 squads of bikes. For melee it will be 1 or 2 squads of lesser demons. I think that should give me a highly mobile force that can pour out a decent amount of fire power. HERETIC! The Emperor is the light of man! We are His shield; we shall turn aside all challengers to His throne. We are His sword; we shall tear assunder our fallen brethren who dance at the whim of iniquitous gods! Take care, friend. |
| #37williamhm75Dec 04, 2009 9:36:20 | I havent looked at the new eddition rule book will have to do so, but mobility has always been important but yeah if rhinos are cheaper then they will be worth it. I was thinking of going with a defiler rhino for each squad, with 2 squads noise marines and 2 squads of regular chaos marines or two squads of regular marines. Added to that a squad of raptors, 2 squads of bikes. For melee it will be 1 or 2 squads of lesser demons. I think that should give me a highly mobile force that can pour out a decent amount of fire power. ?? I thought it was more of a balanced build Defilers are capable of fire power as well as melee noise marines are purley range. Raptors are melee but mobile bikes are ranged and the demons are melee. I was definitley going to get a sorcerer and a lord probably on a bike for my HQ choices. Cadia will burn and the galaxy will fall you defy the inevitable. FOR CHAOS |
| #38Cpt_MichaDec 04, 2009 9:52:07 | Bikes are decent at melee. Especially with Khorne or Nurgle added to them. It is a very balanced list, but it does lean a little on melee (all of Csm does with the new dex. ) |
| #39williamhm75Dec 04, 2009 10:14:00 | Bikes are decent at melee. Especially with Khorne or Nurgle added to them. Ah okay that makes sense I'm just going for a highly mobile strike force that can duke it out in a ranged battle or a close combat battle. I saw what happens to a purley ranged army when something does close with it ie IG against tyranids, but that was with the old codex. Also sometimes seen what happens to a melee army if they cant reach a ranged one. Does the mark of slanesh or zyntch do anything for bikes? |
| #40Cpt_MichaDec 04, 2009 10:15:42 | the porn god gives a +1 to I, and Tz gives them a +5 plus invuln if I remember right. You probably won't ever get the benefit of Tz's though cause of turboboosting etc anyway. (and that there's -alot- of Los blocking terrain now) |
| #41williamhm75Dec 04, 2009 12:09:43 | the porn god gives a +1 to I, and Tz gives them a +5 plus invuln if I remember right. +1 to I is always good. More terrain would be a good thing. Probably end up going with slanesh then. I know the khorne or nurrlge might be better but I like the idea of having the entire army dedicated to slanesh and tz. |
| #42Ragnar_LodbrokDec 05, 2009 0:18:16 | Needs more Ork. *jumps out of a Battlewagon along with a large bodyguard of Meganobz, then attacks wif da Power Klaw an a Big Choppa* "WAAAGH! KRUMP DA BEAKIE!" |
| #43owls_and_more_owlsDec 05, 2009 0:25:41 | I'd like to play Warhammer. It sounds like a fun and interesting game that would no doubt seize and hold my interest for a long time. ... Unfortunately, I do not possess a magical faerie tree that spurts out unlimited money and free time while a comely gnome caresses my tender bits, so I can't play it. |