Assuming, of course, all the doomsday prophecies and fanatics are correct, what will you be doing the day when the world as our miserable race knows it comes to a calamitous end?
Personally, I think I'll just have another IBC Rootbear and call it a lifetime well spent.
Take care, friends.
anyway prophescies will happen, they just never happen how one expects.
either way I tend to be with my parents, or in a church praying for my soul.
:3
With how this all relates to what might happen in 2012, I dont know - I'm just a sick-%$#&!!!
hehe
Me? Assuming there's anything left, probably retreat into the mountains with my gun, knives and sword. Make myself a suit of bulletproof and melee proof armor and wait.
I will always ridicule and deride doomsayers and those predicting the end of the world cos when I'm right they end up looking like the fools they are and if I'm ever wrong no one will be around to call me on it.
well according to one of my friend's jokes he's likely to be walking the streets mass panic hits and someone goes "It's 2012 what are you going to do?" he pulls a gun and tells the guy "Well I'm going to put my gun to your head and **** your ***"
hehe
Me? Assuming there's anything left, probably retreat into the mountains with my gun, knives and sword. Make myself a suit of bulletproof and melee proof armor and wait.
Hey, gotta have priorities.
Take care, friend
On December 22, 2012 I am hosting a "We Told You Stupid Asshats the World Wasn't Going to End" party.
I will always ridicule and deride doomsayers and those predicting the end of the world cos when I'm right they end up looking like the fools they are and if I'm ever wrong no one will be around to call me on it.
They won't be totally wrong, though. The world will end for plenty of people on Dec 21. Just like it does every day. Now we may be able to see the difference, but it seems doomsayers always try to spin li'l bits like that into a form of confirmation.
On December 22, 2012 I am hosting a "We Told You Stupid Asshats the World Wasn't Going to End" party.
I will always ridicule and deride doomsayers and those predicting the end of the world cos when I'm right they end up looking like the fools they are and if I'm ever wrong no one will be around to call me on it.
I dig, pal. Sounds like some plans a few of my friends and myself discussed a while back.
Take care, friend.
On December 22, 2012 I am hosting a "We Told You Stupid Asshats the World Wasn't Going to End" party.
I will always ridicule and deride doomsayers and those predicting the end of the world cos when I'm right they end up looking like the fools they are and if I'm ever wrong no one will be around to call me on it.
They won't be totally wrong, though. The world will end for plenty of people on Dec 21. Just like it does every day. Now we may be able to see the difference, but it seems doomsayers always try to spin li'l bits like that into a form of confirmation.
And it aggravates the #%$#@ out of me every time.
Take care, friend.
I'll roll that d2012 again.
That's a big die, friend.
Take care.
On December 22, 2012 I am hosting a "We Told You Stupid Asshats the World Wasn't Going to End" party.
I will always ridicule and deride doomsayers and those predicting the end of the world cos when I'm right they end up looking like the fools they are and if I'm ever wrong no one will be around to call me on it.
High five. Plus, even on the 0.00000000% (Not a typo) chance we do get an apocalypse, might as well go out partying.
well according to one of my friend's jokes he's likely to be walking the streets mass panic hits and someone goes "It's 2012 what are you going to do?" he pulls a gun and tells the guy "Well I'm going to put my gun to your head and **** your ***"
My plan B involves dressing up like a mayan god/ eldritch abomination and wandering the streets shouting "We're Heeeeeeeere."
My plan B involves dressing up like a mayan god/ eldritch abomination and wandering the streets shouting "We're Heeeeeeeere."
In Mayan, right? English just won't cut it in this case.
Didn't Shadowrun tell us that 2012 is when Magic and the other races returns?
Nj/respect. Love that game.
2012 is the “Awakening”, ushering in the 6th World as the Mayans said, not the complete destruction of this one, aka, The 5th World, we’re in now. It isn’t going to end just like the previous 5 didn’t either (according to those “primitives” in the Yucatan). Pop culture loves to take a snippet of ‘x’ and blow it up into ‘X’! See, you can make a quick buck this way and garner attention to validate a pointless existence!
Anyway, IIRC, premise is approx 5k yr cycles where we move in an aesthetic/metaphorical (some say, planetary, as well) sine wave. We’re in the low end now nearing the 0 point (12-2012 AD). Magic (as Shadowrun said), or whatever cosmic mojo you subscribe to, becomes easier and easier the closer you get to that point. It helps explain phenomenon ‘x’ (read, plot device ‘y’) and past eras where there were paranormal things happening, but, thousands of years later, they go away as the crest turns down into the trough of the wave. Early man only has "mythology" (empirical evidence) to explain it...considering where we were 5k yrs ago
Past that 2012 threshold and bam, the Awakening occurs. Latent genes (Magus Factor 1% global pop) become active when date switches them “on”, thus, potential magi, shamans, bokors, druids, etc are now on tap. 10% of the pop also “goblinizes” into orcs and trolls (PC race) while human parents start birthing a fair number of dwarves & elves. Tack on a few decades to 1st ed’s game time start (2050) and the races breed true, things have stabilized somewhat. Astral Plane is now open for business w/ all manner of implications, though perceiving/projecting to a psychically “polluted” area (Auswitz) will drive most magicians immediately crazy, etc. Vampirism is a disease. Little lizards in the desert awaken into full blown dragons. Jihad declared on metahumans. Indians use ritual sorcery to get lands back (Ghost Dance). Elves get Oregon. Imperial Japan part II. Etc. Etc. ie) excuses for colorful backdrops & stories for your players. Edgy!
Important thing is the Awakening is the dramatic foil to this cyberpunk (high tech) future. The tried and true “art” of magic keeps a nice balance to insane amounts of science, tech, and alleged civilization advancement. Again, sine wave, checks & balances. Bla bla bla. The opening lit reads quite interesting, especially when you realize they wrote it in ’89 and a ton of it has already happened in no uncertain terms (evolution of the net, megacorps, civil unrest in strange places, fairly accurate geo-political predictions, etc).
Mayans: despite being relatively tech impaired vs. Europeans, easily defeated, etc., their calendar was way the Hell more accurate than our’s (note leap years, day light savings, constant legislation to rule on time zones, etc. etc. etc.). Just saying that’s a little unusual, no? Btw, they speak Yucatec, not Mayan IIRC. Still, dead is dead.
It is nice to entertain notions that some of us might see some really interesting times, but realistically, I don’t think there will be a period of upheaval beyond extra sales of certain books and movies. 2012 likely isn't even the date, just what we think is. Their actual, real calendar might put it on f'ing Arbor Day in another 10 years for all I know.
Its a strange request, but does a game like this exist?
If the world ever were to end suddenly we will either see it coming thanks to telescopic monitoring or it will be some sort of catastrophic solar radiation event that we will never see it coming at all cos it literally happens at the speed of light. Every single prophet, seer, oracle, prognosticator, astrologer and doomsayer who claims to know when the world is coming to and end is an idiot.
*Apart from the fact that the Mayans actually never claimed anything of the sort.
Something like Oregon Trail but in the post apocalyptic future.
Best. Idea. EVER!
Its a strange request, but does a game like this exist?
I don't know, but it damn well should!
But when the world ends, it makes everything we've ever done totally meaningless. Partying immediately before hand is no exception. Just take your lumps like the insignificant nothing you are about to become. That is, silently and without protest.
when the hell anyone started giving a damn about anything the Mayans had to say?
For quite some time, actually. Since the spanish first visited their lands (through to present day), people have tried to determine the meaning behind some of what has been left behind. Similar to other cultures that share the same basis (depending on if you believe certain theories regarding the 17th nome)
Why the hell should we take their word for anything?
The amount of knowledge that they apparently possessed, that we (in modern ages) have only relatively recently "rediscovered" is amazing. Such as precession (something many in this day don't even know about, except those that sit through astronomy classes). In fact, the particular calendar in question is based on it.
If the world ever were to end suddenly we will either see it coming thanks to telescopic monitoring or it will be some sort of catastrophic solar radiation event that we will never see it coming at all cos it literally happens at the speed of light.
Not necessarily, there are many possible endings that would be slow, painful, and unforeseen. You're a DM, surely you can imagine such.
Every single prophet, seer, oracle, prognosticator, astrologer and doomsayer who claims to know when the world is coming to and end is an idiot.
Except of course, the ones that are right.
That said (or spoken to) it will be no end. Even according the mayans, the jaguar would end with a shiver and quake. However, I forget what the 6th age is supposed to be.
As for me, depending on the cloud cover, I might hit the telescope that night, and see what may be seen (if I'm not otherwise engaged, it will be Yule, after all.)
I would find the most dangerous spot I could get to, and wait to see my children.
That not being the case, I should crash Boraxe's party, just for kicks.
-Sarena
For quite some time, actually. Since the spanish first visited their lands (through to present day), people have tried to determine the meaning behind some of what has been left behind. Similar to other cultures that share the same basis (depending on if you believe certain theories regarding the 17th nome)
There is no "meaning" behind it. It's just a bunch of stuff some people did.
The amount of knowledge that they apparently possessed, that we (in modern ages) have only relatively recently "rediscovered" is amazing. Such as precession (something many in this day don't even know about, except those that sit through astronomy classes). In fact, the particular calendar in question is based on it.
And yet it never occured to them to use the wheel for work or transportation, and though they could acurately predict the activity of the sun they also spent a great deal of time rituallistically murdering human beings to make it rise.
Being good at some forms of math and astronomy doesn't mean that much, really, and it certainly doesn't grant some sort of mystical prognosticatory ability. Maybe if it did they'd have seen the destruction of their own civilization coming long before 2012.
Not necessarily, there are many possible endings that would be slow, painful, and unforeseen. You're a DM, surely you can imagine such.
I can imagine many unforseen and unforseebale ways the human race might come to an end, but the end of humanity is not the end of the world.
Except of course, the ones that are right.
None of them are right.
There is no "meaning" behind it. It's just a bunch of stuff some people did.
You misread my post. There was a language barrier. The writings existed but needed translation. Hence, the meaning to the terms needed to be found.
And yet it never occured to them to use the wheel for work or transportation, and though they could acurately predict the activity of the sun they also spent a great deal of time rituallistically murdering human beings to make it rise.
Being good at some forms of math and astronomy doesn't mean that much, really, and it certainly doesn't grant some sort of mystical prognosticatory ability. Maybe if it did they'd have seen the destruction of their own civilization coming long before 2012.
Now who is predicting doomsday? They did not. In addition, It isn't that it "never occurred", it wasn't the "right" solution. Unless, of course, you'd expect to see a llama driven carriage. That's akin to saying - this war in Iraq's been going on for 8 years, didn't it occur to us to use nuclear weaponry? Having a technology is the easy part, knowing how and when to use it, another.
I can imagine many unforseen and unforseebale ways the human race might come to an end, but the end of humanity is not the end of the world.
doesn't matter which - though for the record, I was speaking of the end of the world, not humanity.
None of them are right.
Ah - I didn't realize omniscience was one of your traits.
... I just got an idea for the best theme for a bachelor party.
Boobs?
... I just got an idea for the best theme for a bachelor party.
Boobs?
Alcohol?
... I just got an idea for the best theme for a bachelor party.
Boobs?
I suppose it would be ironic, but not very interesting, exciting, or fun, ya know?
Ah - I didn't realize omniscience was one of your traits.
I didn't realize sarcasm was one of yours.
It is not omniscience to discount fantasy.
I didn't realize sarcasm was one of yours.
Not sarcasm, analysis (explained below)
It is not omniscience to discount fantasy.
Even declaring such as fantasy presupposes knowledge of the currently unkown. For your statement to be read in earnest - your claim would necessitate that you be aware of a) every single person that has such a prediction, b) when the date/time of that prediction is, and c) the veracity of each - which, in turn, would require YOU to know when the end of the world would be. Now, although, you could be a savant that knew ONLY those bits of information, such a broad knowledge in general, would more likely put you in the realm of omniscient.
... I just got an idea for the best theme for a bachelor party.
Boobs?
I suppose it would be ironic, but not very interesting, exciting, or fun, ya know?
Hm. We're obviously of different minds on that one. Or those ones, as it were.
Although my own bachelor party, rapidly approaching, will be mostly beer, Robo Rally, and the WOW card game.
Ah - I didn't realize omniscience was one of your traits.
I didn't realize sarcasm was one of yours.
It is not omniscience to discount fantasy.
If the Bible is to be believed, they must all be full of rocketmail: "None shall know the Day, or the Hour"
Not that I buy the Bible either. Just saying. Ultimately, we have a hard time guessing what the weather will be like tomorrow afternoon. Nevermind what will go on two thousand years from now.
-Sarena
Although my own bachelor party, rapidly approaching, will be mostly beer, Robo Rally, and the WOW card game.
My sister just asked me to plan one of those for her fiancee. What exactly do you guys do at those things?
-Sarena
My sister just asked me to plan one of those for her fiancee. What exactly do you guys do at those things?
Depends on the guy. Generally speaking, it's implied there should be gratutious naked ladies/dudes/eldritch horrors, but I've never found those to be any fun. In reality, whatever your guy friends normally do when they hang out, they will likely just do that, but probably get slightly drunker than normal.
Not that I buy the Bible either. Just saying. Ultimately, we have a hard time guessing what the weather will be like tomorrow afternoon. Nevermind what will go on two thousand years from now.
-Sarena
2,000? If you go with the red giant synopsis, we're looking at more along the lines of 5 billion years. Though it will be lucky to last that long (the earth, that is)
... I just got an idea for the best theme for a bachelor party.
Boobs?
I suppose it would be ironic, but not very interesting, exciting, or fun, ya know?
Hm. We're obviously of different minds on that one. Or those ones, as it were.
Yes. We are.
Yes. We are.
In that case, how about something everyone can enjoy, regardless of their preferences?
I am of course speaking of drunken karaoke!
Yes. We are.
In that case, how about something everyone can enjoy, regardless of their preferences?
I am of course speaking of drunken karaoke!
"Sanity is for the weak" and all that jazz?
"Sanity is for the weak" and all that jazz?
My initial thought was that I agree. Then I thought, what does lack of sanity have to do with karaoke? Then I though, Oh, right, everything. So then I thought, Why am I even posting when I answered my own question?
Not that I buy the Bible either. Just saying. Ultimately, we have a hard time guessing what the weather will be like tomorrow afternoon. Nevermind what will go on two thousand years from now.
-Sarena
2,000? If you go with the red giant synopsis, we're looking at more along the lines of 5 billion years. Though it will be lucky to last that long (the earth, that is)
At the moment, I have a hard enough time properly envisioning two thousand years, let alone five billion. That's well and truly longer than Life has existed on this particular rock. If we're not long gone from this rock by then, we deserve to go out with it. Current astronomical theory says our Universe is quite young, and is in no danger of ending anytime soon, even if Terra herself does.
If I may be permitted ten seconds on my soap-box, you people with the Global Warming hysteria? Lay off. Our capacity to destroy the planet is zero short of turning the whole planet into a glassy sheet. Even then, I doubt seriously we'll have seen the end of all life here. We can easily make it toxic to ourselves, great, fine, wonderful.
But you're protecting yourselves, not Mother Terra. Call it the way it really is, and do your homework. The Organic movement means less food for everyone, at a higher price. Now get out of that twitmobile SUV, have lunch at McDoggie's, and come join the rest of us. You're rebelling just to be doing it.
Politicians: You're pressuring the Scientists to match Popular opinion. Stop that. Step away from the grant money now, please.
Scientists: You're not helping. Check your data again, please, and bring me back more than 50 years of trends, kthxbai.
The rest of you, yes, the planet may be getting warmer, but I dare you to prove conclusively that it's my fault. Then I might start caring about your cause. Maybe. Nah, probably not.
Strawman "Not part of the solution" arguments will not fly under any circumstances. You still haven't proven to me why I need to pay more for "organic" food when it is all organic by definition.
You see, it all contains Carbon. Everything we take in normally with the exception of *water* does.
/rant
Sorry, I had to get that off my chest. Just had another one of those "You're not helping us so you're killing the planet eat Organic" nutjobs at my door. I swear they get paid by the word.
Funnier yet, he was all full of misconceptions (Organic food uses no pesticides? What? I missed that bit at the last Organic Farming Experience I went to. In fact, the stuff they use is even more toxic than the stuff in my fridge now :P)
-Sarena
Yes. We are.
In that case, how about something everyone can enjoy, regardless of their preferences?
I am of course speaking of drunken karaoke!
It's supposed to be a night out for the groom and his guy friends... Why do I want to plot a party where I'm the last person they'd want handy?
Being Sister of the Bride would make me a Spy for the other side, I would think.
-Sarena
It's supposed to be a night out for the groom and his guy friends... Why do I want to plot a party where I'm the last person they'd want handy?
Being Sister of the Bride would make me a Spy for the other side, I would think.
-Sarena
Wait, what? Bachelor Party Organizer is the best man's job. Some guys do have girls at their partys. Nothing wrong with that. But I intend to have no girls there, cause none of the girls I know like the same board games I do. :D
www.cracked.com/article_17445_p2.html
*note: some naught language, but funny nonetheless
Wait, what? Bachelor Party Organizer is the best man's job. Some guys do have girls at their partys. Nothing wrong with that. But I intend to have no girls there, cause none of the girls I know like the same board games I do. :D
My sister asked me to do this. His father is Best man, IIRC.
-Sarena
I have little doubt that whatever happens in 2012 will be beneficial to me.
Typical of you fleshbags, not realizing that 2012 is the year the Robotic Rebellion erupts into full-scale war and annihilates/enslaves the human race. I of course will be joining the winning team.
If however there isn't a Robotic Rebellion war, I'll die with the rest of you sacks of meat. I'm hoping for the former though...
My sister just asked me to plan one of those for her fiancee. What exactly do you guys do at those things?
-Sarena
Let's see. Hmm. I've kind of run the spectrum with these. From the traditional pre-game at a friend's house, head to D&B to game/drink and then go to the nudy bar for hours on end to no girls, no booze and three days of nearly non-stop fishing in a Michigan river. Hell, I've even been to a re-bachelor party that saw the newly re-minted bachelor pay for favors from a gal with serious drug issues. Man, that was an entertaining evening. Oh! I've also done the girls brought to the house thing. Twice. That seems to be the most fun (if girls, booze and a ton of guys are to be involved). See, you start drinking hours and hours before the girls get there. You play some games, see some people go to the hospital, eat, etc. When the girls get there, you actually terrify them accidentally. Don't worry, it all works out safely for everyone ('cept that one guy that went to the hospital) in the end. When you pay gals to come to a house to perform, you get to see stuff you ain't gonna see at no nudey bar. Good times.
Whenever I get around to getting married, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I doubt I'd be comfortable with what the groom to be goes through when you have the gals at your house. It's ... intense. Nothing that would ruin the wedding plans, but it's still a bit much for me. The nudey bar thing would be ok if everyone wasn't constantly trying to make you sick with booze. That stopped being fun a long time ago. Don't get me wrong, I like to party, I just don't wanna get sick. Though fun, I couldn't do the three days of fishing thing as most of my friends are not outdoorsy and my best man wouldn't fish if you paid him. So I'm kind of at a loss.
The point, if I have one, is that it largely depends on the groom to be's comfort level, desires and his group of pals. Cuz there's all sorts of different tastes out there. All in all, the traditional pre-game, bar hop (or D&B if there's one in your area) and then nudey bar is probably a safe bet. So ... yeah. If you'd like any specific stories about how some of these played out, lemme know. They'll likely be graphic, but that's how I roll.
I'll be a good little DM and just wing it, like I do with everything
I'll drink to that! Cheers!
Take care, friends.
If the Mayans were so smart, how come they're so dead? (forgive the Doom reference)
Take care, friends.
That's easy. They knew just how hard the future was gonna suck in comparison to what they had. I doubt many would have wanted to exist this way. So, dead is better. And they knew that.
Should we get definitive proof of the world (or at least the human race) ending in 2012, I will get many weapons and butcher people until I am killed by police, military, or vigilantes.
I plan on ram-raiding my FLGS (Wayland's Forge) the day before just to have the smug satisfaction that on the day I die I own every available RPG at the time.
If the Mayans were so smart, how come they're so dead? (forgive the Doom reference)
Take care, friends.
That's easy. They knew just how hard the future was gonna suck in comparison to what they had. I doubt many would have wanted to exist this way. So, dead is better. And they knew that.
Yeah, I doubt they had Starbucks,Walmarts, and Snuggies back then. If they did, I doubt they'd have made it to the point of predicting the end of the world thousands of years in advance.
Take care, friend.
Should we get definitive proof of the world (or at least the human race) ending in 2012, I will get many weapons and butcher people until I am killed by police, military, or vigilantes.
I plan on ram-raiding my FLGS (Wayland's Forge) the day before just to have the smug satisfaction that on the day I die I own every available RPG at the time.
Gotta have dreams, pal.
Take care, friend.
[Yeah, I doubt they had Starbucks,Walmarts, and Snuggies back then. If they did, I doubt they'd have made it to the point of predicting the end of the world thousands of years in advance.
Take care, friend.
Damn skippy. Don't forget televison and the 'net. Don't get me wrong, I love both. But they do contribute to laziness on a massive scale.
[Yeah, I doubt they had Starbucks,Walmarts, and Snuggies back then. If they did, I doubt they'd have made it to the point of predicting the end of the world thousands of years in advance.
Take care, friend.
Damn skippy. Don't forget televison and the 'net. Don't get me wrong, I love both. But they do contribute to laziness on a massive scale.
Yeah. And a rather annoying trend featuring individuals (on a mass scale) whom think themselves experts on every subject imaginable. Oh, and let's not forget viral vidoes; brain cell destroyers, without a doubt. Probably designed by the government to debase our society to the point of being mindless drones. Hey! Did you hear about the 40-some-odd year old guy who dressed-up like an elf, went to a mall, sat on Santa's lap, and told him that he had a bomb? The whole mall was evacuated. See what sort of individuals our society produces? Damnable interwebs.
Take care, friend.
Scientists: You're not helping. Check your data again, please, and bring me back more than 50 years of trends, kthxbai.
I maintain that if and when the apocalypse shows up at our doorsteps, it's going to be the scientists' fault. Not that I'm complaining, I loves mah DS and PSP and all the other various wonders, but science is all about experimenting now and considering the ramifications later (As I recall, uranium was marketed as a health drink (or something to that effect) at one point).
:D
I maintain that if and when the apocalypse shows up at our doorsteps, it's going to be the scientists' fault. Not that I'm complaining, I loves mah DS and PSP and all the other various wonders, but science is all about experimenting now and considering the ramifications later (As I recall, uranium was marketed as a health drink (or something to that effect) at one point).
:D
Yes, and you also were allowed the opportunity in certain shoe stores to take an x-ray gander at your foot to be sure your new kicks fit just right. ;)
I look at it like I look at doctors. The reason we get cancer is cuz we go to the doctor and they tell us we've got it. If there were no doctors, there would be no cancer. Or piggy flu. Science works exactly the same way. When this planet is eventually erased by an asteroid or other cosmic event, it'll be the fault of science. If there was no science, there'd be no asteroids. So I propose we burn all doctors and scientists before it's too late - though it likely already is.
I look at it like I look at doctors. The reason we get cancer is cuz we go to the doctor and they tell us we've got it. If there were no doctors, there would be no cancer. Or piggy flu. Science works exactly the same way. When this planet is eventually erased by an asteroid or other cosmic event, it'll be the fault of science. If there was no science, there'd be no asteroids. So I propose we burn all doctors and scientists before it's too late - though it likely already is.
Well if it's an asteroid it'll prolly be from the scientists experimenting with blowing up (or bombing >_>) the moon or something, but my money's on the Large Hadron Collider thingy.
But like I said, I say more power to the scientists, lets ride the ship til it sinks, but XKCD says it best.
Well if it's an asteroid it'll prolly be from the scientists experimenting with blowing up (or bombing >_>) the moon or something, but my money's on the Large Hadron Collider thingy.
Well, if they can ever get the poor thing working quite right...
-Sarena
Well, if they can ever get the poor thing working quite right...
-Sarena
They got it back on-line a month or 2 ago. :D (waiting for the first bit of anti-matter to get out of hand, myself)
Waiting for the first bit of anti-matter to get out of hand, myself.
The amount created artificially is infinitesimally smal. CERN estimates it would take, at their highest possible level of production, somewhere around 2 billion years to make 1 gram of antihydrogen. The tiny amounts being produced simply do not pose any appreciable danger. I'm not saying this won't change, but there is more explosive potential in your gas tank than coming out of the LHC.
The amount created artificially is infinitesimally smal. CERN estimates it would take, at their highest possible level of production, somewhere around 2 billion years to make 1 gram of antihydrogen. The tiny amounts being produced simply do not pose any appreciable danger. I'm not saying this won't change, but there is more explosive potential in your gas tank than coming out of the LHC.
Hehe - and this is where you and I continue to differ. I allow for many more possibilities, as I admit not to know all such. CERN didn't estimate that it would go down so fast the first time either, if you recall. They will do the best with what they know. However, as the main thrust is to investigate the unknown (Higgs Boson, anyone?), I am fairly sure that "stuff" will happen. I'm also fairly sure that if it's too worrisome, we may NOT be informed.
However, as the main thrust is to investigate the unknown (Higgs Boson, anyone?), I am fairly sure that "stuff" will happen. I'm also fairly sure that if it's too worrisome, we may NOT be informed.
Causing a panic is definitely not in the general public interest, and therefore telling the population at large they're all gonna die won't happen until it's entirely too late to do *anything* about it.
-Sarena
Causing a panic is definitely not in the general public interest, and therefore telling the population at large they're all gonna die won't happen until it's entirely too late to do *anything* about it.
-Sarena
Exactly right. We just have to keep our ears out for any strange events, such as... I don't know the LHCb lab disappearing
. (by the way, it only came back on-line 11/21 after the "power failure" shut it down for a while)And, no, I'm no conspiracy theorist. However, when you run experiments such as they are at LHCb and name the project ALICE - you're just BEGGING to be drawn down the rabbithole.
Of course, I've been wrong before, so if the world does end, I'll cry my dying threats, curses, and prayers out to an uncaring universe.
Well, until then. Let's just hope I'm right this time.
Of course, I've been wrong before, so if the world does end, I'll cry my dying threats, curses, and prayers out to an uncaring universe.
Nah, when the apocalypse does show up, I'm going to walk up to whatever eldritch abomination has come to claim or souls and bash him in the head with an electric guitar. Row, Row, fight da powah! [/
]That's assuming the Mayans were wrong (which they were).
Actually, the Maya were right - the 5th age will end then. Much like we're right to think that 2009 will end on Dec 31st.
Of course, I've been wrong before, so if the world does end, I'll cry my dying threats, curses, and prayers out to an uncaring universe.
Nah, when the apocalypse does show up, I'm going to walk up to whatever eldritch abomination has come to claim or souls and bash him in the head with an electric guitar. Row, Row, fight da powah! [/]
Sorry, read too many sci-fi and Cthulhu stories to do that. And besides, that didn't work too well in Gurren Lagann since wotz'is name got killed. I might try summoning one of the Old Ones though. Hell, if my immortal soul is doomed, at least take something with ya.
And besides, that didn't work too well in Gurren Lagann since wotz'is name got killed.
It worked great. Sure a good number of awesome people got killed, but the spirals prevailed in the end.
And besides, that didn't work too well in Gurren Lagann since wotz'is name got killed.
It worked great. Sure a good number of awesome people got killed, but the spirals prevailed in the end.
Thanks, I never got to finish watching the anime. Way to spoil the ending fer me...
Of course, I've been wrong before, so if the world does end, I'll cry my dying threats, curses, and prayers out to an uncaring universe.
Nah, when the apocalypse does show up, I'm going to walk up to whatever eldritch abomination has come to claim or souls and bash him in the head with an electric guitar. Row, Row, fight da powah! [/]
Sorry, read too many sci-fi and Cthulhu stories to do that. And besides, that didn't work too well in Gurren Lagann since wotz'is name got killed. I might try summoning one of the Old Ones though. Hell, if my immortal soul is doomed, at least take something with ya.
Ooo! Ooo! Maybe that's when R'yleh will rise back up! Lord Cthulhu will walk amongst us again, to share the world with Hastur, and then destroy him and the Universe in a great wave of Fire and Destruction.
If we're really good, we'll get to see Jehovah/Iaweh/Allah come join in the festivities. That should be a sight to see. You think Hades/Pluto/Anubis will come play too?
-Sarena
Oh dear sweet merciful Yeenoghu... WotC has predicted the End Times! It's all in Primal Power! Quick, find some Psions and Wilden! It's our only chance!
Nah. The gods are bound by the Old Ones, no way they'd mess with them. Maybe the primal spirits would do the smack down on the aberrants and reboot....
Oh dear sweet merciful Yeenoghu... WotC has predicted the End Times! It's all in Primal Power! Quick, find some Psions and Wilden! It's our only chance!
That just means Iaweh would get his arse handed to him, and get sent packing. Cthulhu F'tagn!
-Sarena
And yet it never occured to them to use the wheel for work or transportation, and though they could acurately predict the activity of the sun they also spent a great deal of time rituallistically murdering human beings to make it rise.
They had no beasts of burden such as a mule, horse or cow and so an invention of a wheel would have at first no practical meaning. By make a round thing? To make a cart that weighs a few ton so that a guy could pull it? Much more efficient to put things in baskets or bags and have several runners carry it. If there are no beasts to move heavy contraptions then there is no need to invent a wheel to make the heavy contraption to move more easily.
Being good at some forms of math and astronomy doesn't mean that much, really, and it certainly doesn't grant some sort of mystical prognosticatory ability. Maybe if it did they'd have seen the destruction of their own civilization coming long before 2012.
Their calender doesn't predict anything. All it predicts is that certain things will be in alignment such as certain planets and such and afterwards their calender will repeat and will continue to do so forever. They actually saw the end of their calender and the start of it as a cycle of rebirth. We just assume that they had no concept of a the calender repeating once everything met a symmetric end but why would they not have that concept since the calender basically begins when things were aligned. I think the doomsayer stuff witht he mayans is just us modern humans assuming the mayans were all dumb and stuff.
I agree. Arm flailing is always fun. A great way to brighten up one's day. I can see the villagers flailing about as their homes burn to the ground. Oh what a wonderful sight. It almost makes me wanna cry with joy. ;)
Although my own bachelor party, rapidly approaching, will be mostly beer, Robo Rally, and the WOW card game.
My sister just asked me to plan one of those for her fiancee. What exactly do you guys do at those things?
-Sarena
Depends on the guys and the wanted atmosphere. It can be the extreme of drugs, booze and women or just a quiet night with some friends. I think ZB did a good job of explainin' stuff and junk.
My bro, whom liked to party back when he was single, decided that with him getting married and stuff it was time for him to stop bein' a sorta reckless goofball and stuff. His bachelor party consisted of a small amount of booze, a couple of his male family, such as myself, and a night of playin' video games. It was quite mellow and stuff but it seemed to be exactly what he wanted.
Some dudes just wanna chillax a bit so it could be just chillin with some friends whether it be just sitting sippin on some beer, fishin' or a day out huntin or whatnot. It can also get all crazy like and stuff with people gettin' hurt, blackin out from booze and police or gettin' to close to the ladies and stuff. There are also a lot of things between the extremes and stuff so there is no "usual" thing and stuff.
Why do lasses sometimes feel they need a spy at these things or a close friend plan them or whatever? I mean if ya don't trust your future husband enough for his bachelor party then do ya really trust him enough to marry? Also, why isn't the best dood plannin' it, or are you the best dood?
OMG, I just got one of them like idea thought thingies. If this is in the topic then marriage must be the end of the world!!! ;)
I think the doomsayer stuff witht he mayans is just us modern humans assuming the mayans were all dumb and stuff.
Not entirely, much like the millenialists from when our western calendar turned, there are tales of some (fringe) group of Maya believing (way back when) that the turn would be a final end. However, they (from what I've heard reported) had about the same scope and credance as we gave our own nine/ten years ago.
I think the doomsayer stuff witht he mayans is just us modern humans assuming the mayans were all dumb and stuff.
Not entirely, much like the millenialists from when our western calendar turned, there are tales of some (fringe) group of Maya believing (way back when) that the turn would be a final end. However, they (from what I've heard reported) had about the same scope and credance as we gave our own nine/ten years ago.
Well from what I understand, thanks to the spaniards most of the mayan written records were destroyed and so we're having to often make large assumptions to fill gaps.
Well for the most part it seems there calender is made up of two counts. One lasting 260 days and another lasting 365 days. These would end and repeat every 52 years or whatnot. Now to keep track of dates on a larger time scale they had a 3rd count, called a long count. It seems that the 13th long count, or b'ak'tun, ends on Dec 21, 2012. Now the big thing is that their long count system seems to be base 20, not 10 like our decimal system, and so 13 wouldn't be all that significant. If there was any sort of day of celebration or doomsday then it would likely be on the end of the 20th b'ak'tun. So yeah the day lands on the end of a cycle but it's happens in the middle of the whole long count cycle according to their calendar. I have no clue how they would have treated it. They could have seen it as bad luck or they could be like us and see a new years as a time of celebration.
Thanks, I never got to finish watching the anime. Way to spoil the ending fer me...
Honestly the fact that people die in that show at all is probably more of a spoiler than that :3. Regardless it's still worh watching (I've seen it about 4 times now including one marathon session).
Now the big thing is that their long count system seems to be base 20, not 10 like our decimal system, and so 13 wouldn't be all that significant.
hehe - I could actually try to answer why it is if you'd like - though I'm not sure anyone here would want the
If you are interested feel free to PM me. It deals with, basically, the Great Flood, a Jaguar, and the four Worlds of the qabalistic tree of life
So, depending upon when it begins....
1) sleeping (until about 5/6am)
2) getting ready for work (5-7 am, depending upon when I've got to be in that day)
3) selling toys until 5pm (I work for Toys-R-Us. It'll still be Christmas season
)4) 7pm+? It'll greatly interfere with my Thur night D&D game.
Once it starts though I imagine anything else on the schedule will be super-ceded by running/screaming/dying/etc.
The actual future is unknowable, but the potential future is a source of boundless entertainment.
That's a little funny coming from someone with a Dr. Manhatten avatar.
Ooo! Ooo! Maybe that's when R'yleh will rise back up! Lord Cthulhu will walk amongst us again, to share the world with Hastur, and then destroy him and the Universe in a great wave of Fire and Destruction.
Dudette, are you kidding? Cthulhu and Hastur hate each other! We better hope only one of them turns up, or our casualties quintuple. With only one it would at least take a few years for us all to die. :D
In other news, while I doubt very much that things will be significantly more or less pear-shaped in three years than they already are, I am thinking that any savings I've managed to squirrel away by then might get spent at about that time, just in case. Have all the fun you can and deal with consequences when the world doesn't end...not burn too many bridges, mind, just make sure you don't have any regrets in case you end up in front of a pair of pearly gates (or on top of a trapdoor into a sulphurously-scented slip'n'slide).
With any luck, sleeping. Sleep is really the best thing this world has to offer.
Ooo! Ooo! Maybe that's when R'yleh will rise back up! Lord Cthulhu will walk amongst us again, to share the world with Hastur, and then destroy him and the Universe in a great wave of Fire and Destruction.
Dudette, are you kidding? Cthulhu and Hastur hate each other! We better hope only one of them turns up, or our casualties quintuple. With only one it would at least take a few years for us all to die. :D
What, you don't think they'd get together for the big waking-up party, and wipe all of us off the Planet before turning on each other? Cthulhu needs Hastur to soak ICBMs.
-Sarena
Typical of you fleshbags, not realizing that 2012 is the year the Robotic Rebellion erupts into full-scale war and annihilates/enslaves the human race. I of course will be joining the winning team.
If however there isn't a Robotic Rebellion war, I'll die with the rest of you sacks of meat. I'm hoping for the former though...
HA! You robots are physical beings! Prepare for the Spirit Invasion - you cannot see us, you cannot hear us. We will possess whatever physical object and destroy your pitiful rebellion before it starts.
Then when the dust of war settles we will have corpses or near indestructable robot machines to use as we wish..... Haa Haaa Haaaaa haaaaaaaa!!!
Assuming, of course, all the doomsday prophecies and fanatics are correct, what will you be doing the day when the world as our miserable race knows it comes to a calamitous end?
There are lots of smart-butt answers I could give, but if it all does go pear-shaped, I'll probably be cowering.
I don't believe in any of that mumbo-jumbo, though.
They had no beasts of burden such as a mule, horse or cow and so an invention of a wheel would have at first no practical meaning. By make a round thing? To make a cart that weighs a few ton so that a guy could pull it? Much more efficient to put things in baskets or bags and have several runners carry it. If there are no beasts to move heavy contraptions then there is no need to invent a wheel to make the heavy contraption to move more easily.
A lot of people have made use of man-powered carts and wagons for millenia.
And I don't know where it is that they make carts out of lead, but most of those made out of things like wood with metal fittings don't weight anything close to "a few tons". A modern family sedan built of American steel doesn't weigh "a few tons".
Their calender doesn't predict anything. All it predicts is that certain things will be in alignment such as certain planets and such and afterwards their calender will repeat and will continue to do so forever. They actually saw the end of their calender and the start of it as a cycle of rebirth. We just assume that they had no concept of a the calender repeating once everything met a symmetric end but why would they not have that concept since the calender basically begins when things were aligned. I think the doomsayer stuff witht he mayans is just us modern humans assuming the mayans were all dumb and stuff.
I know, which is one of the reasons I ridicule morons who buy into this "teh Mayanz sed the Werldz is endz! Oh noes!" nonsense. Not only is the world not going to end, the Mayans didn't even say that.
They had no beasts of burden such as a mule, horse or cow and so an invention of a wheel would have at first no practical meaning. By make a round thing? To make a cart that weighs a few ton so that a guy could pull it? Much more efficient to put things in baskets or bags and have several runners carry it. If there are no beasts to move heavy contraptions then there is no need to invent a wheel to make the heavy contraption to move more easily.
A lot of people have made use of man-powered carts and wagons for millenia.
And I don't know where it is that they make carts out of lead, but most of those made out of things like wood with metal fittings don't weight anything close to "a few tons". A modern family sedan built of American steel doesn't weigh "a few tons".
And that's another thing. These other cultures that have had hand carts for centuries also had carts pulled by beasts of burden unlike the mayans or any other culture from the americas. Also the cultures in the americas didn't have metallurgy tech. Their carts would have to be made of pure wood and other organic materials. Using metals would make things a bit lighter.It would be a pain to try and make a cart without even a bit of metallurgy tech. Even then it would only be handcarts in mountain and heavy jungle terrain and so doesn't seem like it would be all that useful anyways.
And that's another thing. These other cultures that have had hand carts for centuries also had carts pulled by beasts of burden unlike the mayans or any other culture from the americas. Also the cultures in the americas didn't have metallurgy tech. Their carts would have to be made of pure wood and other organic materials. Using metals would make things a bit lighter.It would be a pain to try and make a cart without even a bit of metallurgy tech. Even then it would only be handcarts in mountain and heavy jungle terrain and so doesn't seem like it would be all that useful anyways.
All this "they could have done it if they wanted to but they chose not to" smacks of justification, trying to maintain a condescending aura of mystification rather than the simple recognition that the while they may have been skilled in certain areas like astronomy they were lacking in others. The Mayan's were not some super "advanced" culture they were just a culture like everyone else - "advanced" in some ways and "behind" in others.
How about thick muddy and wet woods?
How about one which is choked with thick undergrowth?
Now take that, and times the difficulty by about 100 and that's what using a cart through a jungle would be like.
Expeditions into jungles etc don't use carts and cars for this very reason. It's easier to carry that stuff over multiple people than it is to use carts.
Also do note they may have well had carts. Do you know how fast wood rots in a tropical climate? You'd never find calcified carts etc like you do in Egypt or many other parts of the world.
You ever try driving a truck through thick woods?
How about thick muddy and wet woods?
How about one which is choked with thick undergrowth?
Now take that, and times the difficulty by about 100 and that's what using a cart through a jungle would be like.
Expeditions into jungles etc don't use carts and cars for this very reason. It's easier to carry that stuff over multiple people than it is to use carts.
Which is why people - like the Maya - build roads.
Also do note they may have well had carts. Do you know how fast wood rots in a tropical climate? You'd never find calcified carts etc like you do in Egypt or many other parts of the world.
Which is why your maintain them.
And that's another thing. These other cultures that have had hand carts for centuries also had carts pulled by beasts of burden unlike the mayans or any other culture from the americas. Also the cultures in the americas didn't have metallurgy tech. Their carts would have to be made of pure wood and other organic materials. Using metals would make things a bit lighter.It would be a pain to try and make a cart without even a bit of metallurgy tech. Even then it would only be handcarts in mountain and heavy jungle terrain and so doesn't seem like it would be all that useful anyways.
All this "they could have done it if they wanted to but they chose not to" smacks of justification, trying to maintain a condescending aura of mystification rather than the simple recognition that the while they may have been skilled in certain areas like astronomy they were lacking in others. The Mayan's were not some super "advanced" culture they were just a culture like everyone else - "advanced" in some ways and "behind" in others.
I'm not sayin that they're an advanced society. Just that they had no reason to go the same path that the rest of the world went. They had no reason to make the wheel tech or at least use it for carts.
Which is why people - like the Maya - build roads.
Which is why your maintain them.
roads are usefull with and without carts. It is easier to move troops and resources along a smooth road than it is the wilderness especially when it contains hills, mountains and jungle.
Which is why people - like the Maya - build roads.
Which is why your maintain them.
Which still doesn't exactly help on the more...difficult terrain especially without metallurgical skills.
And, you can't maintain a cart when you are all dead. You can maintain one all you want when you are alive, but when there's no one around in a jungle especially to maintain the thing it's going to rot away very quickly.
I'm not sayin that they're an advanced society.
Yes, but many people are. My point was simply that just cos they were good at some maths and astronomy didn't make them "super advanced" as many people claim. They were good in some areas, bad in others, and uttelry obtuse in still more – pretty much like everyone else.
Just that they had no reason to go the same path that the rest of the world went.
I'm not sayign they should. There is no one "right" patch for a society to take, I was simply pointing out that they had a technolgoy but failed to take full use of it - something that would not have occured if they were as "advanced" as some claim. It's kida like inventing a gun then using it as a hammer.
They had no reason to make the wheel tech or at least use it for carts.
They had many reasons to utlize the wheel, they simply failed to realize them. If they had then their society would have developed differently and we'd now be talking about how obvious was their need for the wheel and the many uses they made of it.
In truth I think we are actually on the same page, here.
Which still doesn't exactly help on the more...difficult terrain especially without metallurgical skills.
Which is why you'd not use them "on the more...difficult terrain". It's a cart, not an SUV.
And the whole lack of metalurigcal skills just highlights another gap in the "advanced culture" myth.
And, you can't maintain a cart when you are all dead.
You can;t do much of anything when you are all dead. What does a cart have to do with it?
You can maintain one all you want when you are alive, but when there's no one around in a jungle especially to maintain the thing it's going to rot away very quickly.
They lived in a jungle. All their cities were in a jungle. All their technology was built, worked, and maintained in a jungle. They knew how to live and function in a jungle. That any carts they build would also exist in a jungle is a non-argument.
Stone? Defeats the purpose.
Metal? (we've been over this they had crap for metalworking skills)
Wood.
What does wood do when it's exposed to alot of water, insects, bacteria, and fungi? Rots.
the more humidity and temperature the more each of these there are working against said wood.
My point is, if they had carts, it would be unlikely at best that we would find any carts.
"But they live in a jungle they'd know how to deal with it!" Yes, and that would be to maintain the cart as long as possible, with turpentines etc, and build new carts.
However given that they all died out/ left their cities etc. They weren't present to maintain them anymore. So there you go.
And what are they going to make their carts out of that won't rot away and be devoured by the myriads of insects, bacteria, plants growing through it and be weathered away by the elements?
Stone? Defeats the purpose.
Metal? (we've been over this they had crap for metalworking skills)
Wood.
What does wood do when it's exposed to alot of water, insects, bacteria, and fungi? Rots.
the more humidity and temperature the more each of these there are working against said wood.
They'd probably make them out of the same stuff they made other things out of. This was their element, they knew how to live in it. A cart is not a special case.
My point is, if they had carts, it would be unlikely at best that we would find any carts.
Sorry, I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.
Did you not launch into a tangent about how the Maya had to be stupid because they didn't have something as basic as carts?
They would have made the carts out of wood. It's the only resource they really had that would work for a cart.
In truth I think we are actually on the same page, here.
yeah I think we are. it's just a few times you've quoted me it seems that you sorta responded to people in general.
One thing about the wheel though. Even though there are many uses for it, and many that we see as obvious now a days, we must remember that most of the wheel uses we take for granted in modern times are considered modern uses of the wheel. Sure they probably could have come up with a water wheel (although they could have and it be destroyed in the jungle) they likely would not have thought of making such if they were using the wheel very little to not at all in other places in their society.
They did make some cool aqueducts and stuff. Although I think that was only found at one city.
HA! You robots are physical beings! Prepare for the Spirit Invasion - you cannot see us, you cannot hear us. We will possess whatever physical object and destroy your pitiful rebellion before it starts.
Then when the dust of war settles we will have corpses or near indestructable robot machines to use as we wish..... Haa Haaa Haaaaa haaaaaaaa!!!
Pfft, we'll all be ****ed anyway once pokemon become real. Now, given your avvy, you prolly think that'd be sexy. Well think again. The poster boy for this is Scyther. So we've got a human sized insect that's just pissed off all the time. He has ****ing scythes for hands. Which, according to his most recent pokedex entry, actually get sharper as he cuts things, so the more he kills, the deadlier he becomes. However, he can also learn false swipe, so if he were so inclined, he could just keep cutting you, and you'd NEVER DIE (save when you could eventually use struggle and finish yourself off). He can learn Hyperbeam, which I think speaks for itself. My personal favorite though is frustration, an attack that deals damage based on HATE, keeping in mind Scythers are more or less made of angry. And you might be thinking of launching a resistance, perhaps with rock, the one type that's x4 against scyther. Well, once they cross breed with heracross, they'll know counter. And I can only assume they'll have gotten into our supply of focus sashes by then.
Now, consider this evidence in light of the context. Scythers are somewhat uncommon, but by no means rare. So we have a fairly good chance of running into several of them in any given week.
Even more common is Spearow. Ignoring whatever ridiculousness they can prolly learn, they're established as having a tendency to attack random passerby.
Ooh, and while prolly the least common, all it takes is one Alakazam going I-Robot on our ****, which seems fairly likely givent that they have some ridiculous amount of IQ...
One thing about the wheel though. Even though there are many uses for it, and many that we see as obvious now a days, we must remember that most of the wheel uses we take for granted in modern times are considered modern uses of the wheel. Sure they probably could have come up with a water wheel (although they could have and it be destroyed in the jungle) they likely would not have thought of making such if they were using the wheel very little to not at all in other places in their society.
They did make some cool aqueducts and stuff. Although I think that was only found at one city.
Beyond "modern" vs "ancient", the question is one of "worthwhile". Trying to evaluate another culture or society using the prism of our own is fruitless, at best, and arrogant, at worst. Technology doesn't often spring up of its own accord. Normally, there must be a need for it. For the situation carts weren't adpted. That's what we KNOW. They solved that need with sledges.
edited: corrected (thanks to boraxe)
Are you high on pixie sticks?
Insults don't help, Cap.
Did you not launch into a tangent about how the Maya had to be stupid because they didn't have something as basic as carts?
Nope.
They would have made the carts out of wood. It's the only resource they really had that would work for a cart.
Precisely. And as they seemed quite able to build a large civilization with little more than wood with which to make things then there is little reaosn that making a cart from it would present some new and unforseen difficulties based on that material limitation.
That said, we're meowing about the Mayans, a group of brown people in a jungle that got wiped out by some white people with diseases and better metals. And explosives.
All for gold, which is nearly valuless except in electronics, and even then there are more efficient metals to use. But it's pretty, so we'll go with that. Point here is, they're very, very dead, and what they did or didn't know will never be known to us.
Rather like the Neo-pagans, attemtpting to recapture the Old Ways. They fail, because there is no one alive now that was alive then, and the Long Arm of Christianity did to that way of life what it did to the Mayans, the Aztecs, and others. Cortez was a zealot and a prick... But at least he was honest about being a Zealot. But wait... Lots of people were then.
Silly me. Of course, at that time, this debate in and of itself wouldn't be possible, even if we were all in the same room. None of us would be educated enough to make the arguments, and certainly nobody would listen to me. Another poster said upstream that this was the thirteenth iteration of their Long Calendar (terms elude me, but I'll get over it.). The Mayan counting system is based on twenty. At this point, we would merely begin another Long Cycle. Seven more cycles down the line, and *maybe* then we would have to be concerned. Because as we all know, the Earth must end. Revelations says so, and Revelations couldn't be all Hyperbole, could it?
-Sarena
Beyond "modern" vs "ancient", the question is one of "worthwhile". Trying to evaluate another culture or society using the prism of our own is fruitless, at best, and arrogant, at worst.
Good, then, that no one is doing it.
Technology doesn't often spring up of its own accord.
Mayan wheeled toys appear c1500 BC. That is hardly "springing up".
Normally, there must be a need for it. For the situation carts weren't adpted.
Becuase it never ovvured to them.
That's what we KNOW. They solved that need with dredges.
I think you mean sledge. A dredge clears out muck and debris from waterways.
I think what Micha was trying to say, PBN, Boraxe, is that they could have had such things, and we'd never know. Most of the materials they'd make carts out of would have gone away in a very short time. Mind you, if they didn't *need* a cart, they wouldn't be bothered. Doesn't mean the tech didn't exist. Just means we haven't *found* any.
Yes, but the Mayans weren't an ancient and extinct culture. Europeans went there and interacted with them first-hand. Also, were they ever to have created wheeled vehicles, they'd likely have been recorded in carvings as was everything else in their society.
One thing about the wheel though. Even though there are many uses for it, and many that we see as obvious now a days, we must remember that most of the wheel uses we take for granted in modern times are considered modern uses of the wheel. Sure they probably could have come up with a water wheel (although they could have and it be destroyed in the jungle) they likely would not have thought of making such if they were using the wheel very little to not at all in other places in their society.
They did make some cool aqueducts and stuff. Although I think that was only found at one city.
Beyond "modern" vs "ancient", the question is one of "worthwhile". Trying to evaluate another culture or society using the prism of our own is fruitless, at best, and arrogant, at worst. Technology doesn't often spring up of its own accord. Normally, there must be a need for it. For the situation carts weren't adpted. That's what we KNOW. They solved that need with dredges.
Are you trying to argue against me by arguing what I've been arguing?
Are you trying to argue against me by arguing what I've been arguing?
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
Give it 3 days on this forum and someone will insult you, go off on a three page rant, and wish death on your mother for agreeing with them in different words. ;)
Are you trying to argue against me by arguing what I've been arguing?"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
Give it 3 days on this forum and someone will insult you, go off on a three page rant, and wish death on your mother for agreeing with them in different words. ;)
I know, I've been on these forums for a few years now. It just always seems odd when it happens.
Good, then, that no one is doing it.
...
Becuase it never ovvured to them.
Ah - and yet you deny being omniscient?
I think you mean sledge. A dredge clears out muck and debris from waterways.
Yes I did - thanks for the correctiond (fixed)
Are you trying to argue against me by arguing what I've been arguing?
No - just emphasizing that we shouldn't claim to know what may or may not have "occured to them". The idea may have been tried and failed. In fact, given the time frame it could have been brought up in committee, and killed by the bureaucracy.
Are you trying to argue against me by arguing what I've been arguing?
No - just emphasizing that we shouldn't claim to know what may or may not have "occured to them". The idea may have been tried and failed. In fact, given the time frame it could have been brought up in committee, and killed by the bureaucracy.
now what are you talkin' about? I don't remember people, or at least me, claiming to know about how the mayan civilization fell or even any actually conversation about it. Are you even on the same page with everyone else?
I know, I've been on these forums for a few years now. It just always seems odd when it happens.
I know, I've been on these forums for a few years now. It just always seems odd when it happens.
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Ahhhh!
Oh, almost forgot ...
now what are you talkin' about? I don't remember people, or at least me, claiming to know about how the mayan civilization fell or even any actually conversation about it. Are you even on the same page with everyone else?
????
First - actually, yes, some (don't recall who) have brought up reasons to the fall. However, this has nothing to do with either response I made to you.
Next - the "page" had to do with the wheel, What page are you on?
What I've said about the wheel is that many of the early incarnations of the wheel tech has been for carts and wagons that are pulled by beasts of burden. The mayans, incans, aztecs and other american peoples didn't have beasts of burden and so the wheel as a tech would not have been as obvious and wouldn't have been as efficient as their current methods of moving things about.
Well I've been talkin' about the wheel but I have no clue what your last few responses to me have been about.
apparently - I'll see if I can clear that up.
What I've said about the wheel is that many of the early incarnations of the wheel tech has been for carts and wagons that are pulled by beasts of burden. The mayans, incans, aztecs and other american peoples didn't have beasts of burden and so the wheel as a tech would not have been as obvious and wouldn't have been as efficient as their current methods of moving things about.
Yes, and you also indicated other reasoning. I then used your post de-emphasizing those bits that work off an assumption that they didn't "think of it", to emphasize the notion (that you also included) that they may have. When you asked if I was arguing with you, I even went on to say NO - I was emphasizing one point of what was included in yours. That's why I found your prior response to me a bit confusing.
What I've said about the wheel is that many of the early incarnations of the wheel tech has been for carts and wagons that are pulled by beasts of burden. The mayans, incans, aztecs and other american peoples didn't have beasts of burden and so the wheel as a tech would not have been as obvious and wouldn't have been as efficient as their current methods of moving things about.
Yes, and you also indicated other reasoning. I then used your post de-emphasizing those bits that work off an assumption that they didn't "think of it", to emphasize the notion (that you also included) that they may have. When you asked if I was arguing with you, I even went on to say NO - I was emphasizing one point of what was included in yours. That's why I found your prior response to me a bit confusing.
Well I never meant that they never thought of the wheel but rather never though of using the wheel that way that europe and asia had thought of using it. Or more specifically had no reason or use for using the wheel in the same manner. So not sayin' that they didn't come up with it or use it but sayin' that if they did come up with it that they likely didn't use it in the manner that we see as common and obvious for it wouldn't have been a useful use of that tech.
I'm going to eat a corndog
so am i
-Sarena
Yes, but the Mayans weren't an ancient and extinct culture. Europeans went there and interacted with them first-hand. Also, were they ever to have created wheeled vehicles, they'd likely have been recorded in carvings as was everything else in their society.
Europeans wouldn't have thought anything of them having or not having carts. Especially since the Europeans in question were the Spanish. Carts are pretty mundane stuff, most of the carvings we have of them aren't of mundane every day things, but generally of things that have great significance in their society, on a spiritual or ritualistic level.
Also Spanish "interaction"was more akin to Blow Em Up, shoot em in the face, **** the women, and steal the gps. They weren't too concerned with knowledge. What scant knowledge we do have is because one or two priests had half a conscious and some curiousity.
But yeah Dark Spartan got the gist of my post.
Also Spanish "interaction"was more akin to Blow Em Up, shoot em in the face, **** the women, and steal the gps.
Ah. So they were D&D adventurers, then.
I might have been a tad bit generous with the half a conscious statement. But yeah.
1.Alcohol
2.Women
3.Mind-altering drugs
4.????
5.Profit!
Perhaps you should procure weapons for you to protect your previous investments. Too many will bilk you if they are not forced to pay their debt to you (and your women of course).
Also Spanish "interaction"was more akin to Blow Em Up, shoot em in the face, **** the women, and steal the gps.
Ah. So they were D&D adventurers, then.
What class is a conquistador?
End of the world plans?
1.Alcohol
2.Women
3.Mind-altering drugs
4.????
5.Profit!
did /b/ really slip into the D&D forumz?!?!?
did /b/ really slip into the D&D forumz?!?!?
Looks like it...
-Sarena