Some budding novelist advice?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

nadzilla

Jun 26, 2010 17:58:50
Hi all,

I didn't really know where the best place to post this would be. Seeing as this forum is kind of "anything goes" I thought I would try here. I'm new and don't want to step on anyone's toes or disgruntle the regulars. Wink

Anyhow, I play on a Neverwinter Nights persistent world server called the Three Towns, and over the years have built up quite a bit of RP and background for some of my older characters. I'm feeling particularly inspired at the moment, especially since finding the joy of reading R.A Salvatore's "Drizzt" novels (my goodness I have read so many and still have some more to go!), and I'd like to try my hand at writing my own novel.

The thing is, whilst Three Towns is based on the D&D rules etc, it's not based in any of the D&D worlds, rather it is set in its own unique world. Obviously I'd like to allude to certain classes / skills / feats and spells in my writing, and I am aware that I would need to get permission from the server admin to use any references to Three Towns specifically (and any other content therein, of course, like towns and history etc).

If my work ever got published, would I also have to pay royalties to Hasbro / Wizards of the Coast etc? I really didn't know where to start with my investigations. I know this site does have a section where you can submit samples of work to be considered as a writer for WotC, but from what I read their department is fairly small, so I didn't want to bother them with my ramblings, heh.

Any advice about royalties / copyright and who I should be asking would be very, very much appreciated.

...oh and thank you for taking the time to read this, heh.

Nadz
#2

pigknight

Jun 26, 2010 19:21:42
Here's what you could do: Not refer to D&D stuff specifically.
#3

Escef

Jun 26, 2010 21:09:02
The old 3.5 SRD lists a lot of things that WOtC considered open source from the old core books. Which means there are a lot of things you can lift from D&D quite safely. Further, a great many things in D&D were lifted from folklore and other sources. The old Vancian magic system was based on the one found in some of Jack Vance's old novels, Treants and halflings were ripped off from Tolkien, etc. I wouldn't worry about it (besides, if they do sue you can use the controversy for publicity to drum up sales).
#4

Mechalibur

Jun 26, 2010 21:22:05
Don't make it all a dream. That pisses readers off.
#5

EscherEnigma

Jun 26, 2010 21:50:38
If I remember my copyright and trademark law correctly (quite possible that I don't) that you should be fine for the most part so long as you don't start spelling out rules.  The web comic Order of the Stick [link] is a pretty good example (particularly early on when they made more rules jokes) in the level of detail you can safely go into as far as rules references.

Beyond that, steer clear of the D&D fluff (Pelor, Lloth, the particular backstories of dark elves and orcs) and make a wide berth around stuff that WotC holds closer to their chest (mind flayers, beholders, a few other things) and you should be fine.

And remember: when in doubt, hope you can scrape by under parody.

Oh and: if you end up in the fortuitous situation of being able to actually make money off your endeavor, check with a real lawyer about this stuff.  I don't think WotC is particularly litigious, but safe, sorry, and all that jazz, no? 
#6

pigknight

Jun 27, 2010 0:38:14

Isn't Cthulhu the original Mind Flayer?

#7

nadzilla

Jun 27, 2010 14:53:55
Wow, thanks for the fast replies so far guys, confirms some of my original hopes, heh. A lot of fluff in the stories is going to be based in the Three Towns world, where Beholders are called Saliosians, and where Minotaurs and Mindflayers are called Oukrata and Manonera Magesmiths respectively. So a lot of the permissions etc would have to come from Three Towns. Only things I'm worried about are uses of things like Drow and Duergar, as they are pretty much still stock D&D / WotC.

Still researching...  :D

Thanks again though, some great info coming through.
#8

Escef

Jun 27, 2010 16:23:48
The words "dark elf" are fine, though you should veer away from the physical and societal descriptions of them in D&D (many authors claim that their depictions of dark elves draw from old German tales of the dockelfin, and the word Drow comes from the same root word as Troll). Probably veer away from the physical appearance of Mind Flayers as well. I don't see any reason to not call Minotaurs minotaurs. And Duergar originally come from folklore, so the name itself is fine.
#9

pigknight

Jun 27, 2010 17:27:18
Dark elves are actually dwarves I think in RL mythology.
#10

MechaPilot

Jun 27, 2010 17:33:27
The words "dark elf" are fine, though you should veer away from the physical and societal descriptions of them in D&D (many authors claim that their depictions of dark elves draw from old German tales of the dockelfin, and the word Drow comes from the same root word as Troll). Probably veer away from the physical appearance of Mind Flayers as well. I don't see any reason to not call Minotaurs minotaurs. And Duergar originally come from folklore, so the name itself is fine.



So black-skinned, opressively-matriarchal elves, that live underground, are owned by WotC?
#11

EscherEnigma

Jun 27, 2010 19:07:57
So black-skinned, opressively-matriarchal elves, that live underground, are owned by WotC?


Only if they're also called "Drow".

#12

nadzilla

Jun 28, 2010 11:46:00
Thanks again guys, a lot of valuable insight here. I need to research my world folklore a bit, try and draw from original (and royalty-free, of course, hehe) source material. Wink
#13

boraxe

Jun 28, 2010 13:01:26
The best advice I can give is do not, under any circumstances, simply write out what happened to you in the game. While it was no doubt very enjoyable to play, it will be of little interest to anyone else and will likely not hold together as a novel. it is a common misconception to assume "that was a great game" equals "that will make a great story".

Best thing you can do is take the core of your experiences, strip away anything even remotely specific to D&D and the game world in which you are playing, and re-spin the stories in a setting entirely of your creation, one created specifically to contextualize those stories in your own unique manner.
#14

nadzilla

Jun 28, 2010 16:35:48
Don't worry, at the end none of it will be "just all a dream", and I'm not writing my adventures from in-game, because that's lame, heh.

No, I have detailed backgrounds for both my main characters, both backgrounds are actually completely original and can be taken as they are to a new world of my making should I choose not to use 3T as the basis for the adventures. What I have come up with might generally not be the most original kind of story going, but I am hoping that it'll bring a new slant to some (perhaps slightly well-used) scenarios. I've been congratulated for fleshing out the history of my characters in the game-world through the RP and backstory forums, and the way I RP my characters. But in no way will I be using the same methods in my writing, as I completely understand that ripping things straight from an adventure is A: lazy and B: only exciting to me and the other players that were there.

Plus, after reading the Drizzt books and seeing how popular R. A Salvatore's writing is, it gives me hope. Whilst I am absolutely obsessed with Drizzt and the other characters, I keep wondering if they even hire proof-readers for some of the stuff that gets published. In one book he really over-uses the word "intrigue", and in others there are so many spelling mistakes and slip-ups (like in "The Lone Drow" where Cattie-Bries hair is suddenly blond in one scene...) it kinda makes me think "hell, if he can do it, so can I!"  Tongue out

I would never assume to be better than anyone, though. I do know that people make mistakes, and some things do get missed, but even so. I think I might be in with a chance of creating something pretty exciting to read myself, and with some of the poop rolling out of these self-publishing websites these days, I might as well give it a go!
#15

toastedamphibian

Jun 28, 2010 20:37:40
Advice for a "budding novelist"?

Don't do it. Horticulture based novels hold a woefully small market share, for good reason.
#16

EscherEnigma

Jun 28, 2010 20:54:05
I would never assume to be better than anyone, though.


Then you'll never make it.  Humility is over-rated and arrogance is key.  Strut like you've got a reason to strut, and people will believe you.

#17

MechaPilot

Jun 28, 2010 22:51:19
I would never assume to be better than anyone, though.



Then you'll never make it.  Humility is over-rated and arrogance is key.  Strut like you've got a reason to strut, and people will believe you.




I'm not proud of it, but that's actually how I got into writing.  I knew someone (an aquaintance of a friend) who wrote something that was actually pretty decent.  Later that night I thought "Hell, if that moron can write something decent then I could be the next Salinger."

As a person, it's not one of my better moments; but since it did kick off a love affair with writing and literature it can't be all bad.
#18

nadzilla

Jun 29, 2010 12:33:35
I would never assume to be better than anyone, though.




Then you'll never make it.  Humility is over-rated and arrogance is key.  Strut like you've got a reason to strut, and people will believe you.





Do I really need to go around telling people I'm better than everyone else? Frown

That's really not the kind of person I am. For example, whilst I can point out many, many flaws in Salvatore's writings, he's got me hooked on his different series of books. Who am I to assume I can make people feel the same way? Tolkien, on the other hand, is unbeatable in my eyes. His grasp of language and the vastness of his world and the details therein can only be surpassed by those of equal genius. I have nowhere near the same IQ as Tolkien, but I am supposed to strut around telling people I am the bees-knees? Sorry, but people can smell BS a mile away, and I'm not going to sully my image or reputation for anything in the world.

I'm only really writing this for myself and my friends and family, I'm not looking for a publishing deal or to get rich (that's why I am looking at the self-publishing route), but if it happens to find me and it catches on, so be it. There was a guy from my home town who boasted he was the best and that he was going to be great. He turned out to be Matt Bellamy of Muse. Sure, he did what he set out to do, but he made a lot of people hate him on his way up because his attitude stunk to high hell. I could never live with the knowledge that I'd made someone feel that way through my actions, no matter if that course was guaranteed to make me a millionaire. I pride myself on the way I treat and respect other people, and that's never going to change. Wink

If that makes me a pauper...well, I'm going to be one hell of a happy homeless guy. Laughing
#19

EscherEnigma

Jun 29, 2010 16:44:18
Do I really need to go around telling people I'm better than everyone else? Frown


Yes.  Do so.  Now.  Or I'll revoke your man-card.

#20

ADHadh

Jun 30, 2010 13:27:08
Do I really need to go around telling people I'm better than everyone else? Frown



It may make the impression that you are not distanced to your work and make the potential publisher more willing to look for flaws (just to rub it in your snobby face).
That's why arrogant people rarely pass interviews in art schools. What is needed would be humility and willingness to work and improve.
It's very Zen.
#21

nadzilla

Jun 30, 2010 15:35:04
Do I really need to go around telling people I'm better than everyone else? Frown



Yes.  Do so.  Now.  Or I'll revoke your man-card.




Aww! But I just earned that by throwing a Spider out of the house the other morning! Cry
#22

zombie_babies

Jun 30, 2010 15:42:03
Aww! But I just earned that by throwing a Spider out of the house the other morning! Cry



Dood, I don't know where you come from, but 'round here we don't earn Man Cards by not killin' spiders. 
#23

ADHadh

Jun 30, 2010 15:45:39
Aww! But I just earned that by throwing a Spider out of the house the other morning!




Dood, I don't know where you come from, but 'round here we don't earn Man Cards by not killin' spiders. 


Hey, but a dead spider won't feel the humiliation.
Besides, maybe he follows that old superstition about killin' spiders bringing bad luck (or rain).

#24

nadzilla

Jul 01, 2010 14:35:52
Living Spiders put up some kind of fight. Just stamping on the buggers is too easy. Tongue out