Good starting lvl for a 4e PS campaign? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Good starting lvl for a 4e PS campaign?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
scipion_emilien
Dec 27, 2008 15:48:55 Im actually in the mist of starting a 4e planescape campaing. When I read the MoTP and the mercykiller article, I shiver.

I was planning to start lvl 5 since our last campaing end lvl 4 and I wish to have some continuity with the last one.

But then I saw in the MoTP the spelljamer lvl 18 with the planar ritual, the standard mercykiller soldier is lvl 10 :/

The plane still seem to be at least a paragon place.
#2
warghoul
Dec 28, 2008 1:52:30 You can run a mid lvl PS campaign if the berks know how to keep their bone boxes shut and keep there noses clean. They have a chance keeping their names out of the 'book'.

It all depends on where you take`em when it comes down to it I think.
#3
dulsi
Dec 28, 2008 7:27:57
The plane still seem to be at least a paragon place.

At think that is the way WotC intends to use it. If you want a lower level game you may simply have to create some low level version of the creatures.
#4
sdrowsfognik
Dec 29, 2008 5:19:13 Yeah the planes are full of some really powerful characters, factions, groups, monsters, magics, and gods ... but so is any campaign setting when you really think about it. The original Planescape campaign setting box had some great ideas and suggestions on how to run a Planescape campaign at any level, including first.

First of all, the planes are infinite, but as a DM you can exert a lot of control over a character's access to portals and travel. They don't call it the cage for nothing. With Sigil (or even some other planar location) as a neutral base of operations, you can control where the players can get to, and what they can encounter, and easily create adventures, or even "dungeons" in various locales that are of the appropriate level, and provide means of planar travel between the adventure spots and the character's home base.

Secondly Sigil, while it is unlike any other city, is still a city. There's plenty of things to do, and adventures to be had in Sigil for low level characters - sure they need to keep their heads down and not pick fights with the bloods, but a first level character in a normal city campaign also shouldn't be picking fights with the king's elite guards or the head assassins of the local thieves' guild.

I'd suggest getting your hands on as much of the old 2nd Edition Planescape material as you possibly can. Aside from being the best illustrated and most intriguing reading ever produced by TSR or WotC, these books were incredibly rules-lite for D&D supplements, and it is quite easy to base a whole campaign off of the information, philosophies, stories, settings and ideas in them using 4.0 rules, or really any gaming system you'd like.

In the bygone days of 2nd I ran almost exclusively Planescape or Dark Sun games ... almost all my Planescape campaigns started at first level, and I never had any trouble with it. I'm sure that with a solid idea of what you've got planned for your game you won't have any trouble running a campaign at 5th level.

Have fun!
#5
kaitoukage
Dec 29, 2008 21:13:05 I would warn against the idea that Planescape requires high-level play. It doesn't. It's all in the matter of what you do, and there are plenty of lower-level opportunities for planar characters. Remember, being on the planes doesn't mean you have to encounter all the fiendish high-ups that are looking to dead-book you. It just means they're more prominent. A rather large number of the published Planescape adventures were written for lower-level characters. Granted, the power curve in 2e is a lot different from 4e, but the fact remains: Any level is appropriate for planar campaigns. It's all a matter of what you want out of the campaign. If your immediate goal is to go up in mortal combat against glabrezu or barbazu, then you'll certainly want a higher level game. If you want to just deal with the beliefs and ideas that represent the Planescape setting, you can still do a lot at lower levels.
#6
kenmarable
Jan 11, 2009 0:30:32
I'd suggest getting your hands on as much of the old 2nd Edition Planescape material as you possibly can. Aside from being the best illustrated and most intriguing reading ever produced by TSR or WotC, these books were incredibly rules-lite for D&D supplements, and it is quite easy to base a whole campaign off of the information, philosophies, stories, settings and ideas in them using 4.0 rules, or really any gaming system you'd like.

I agree. I'm currently converting Eternal Boundary to 4e to start off my Planescape campaign at level 1.

In fact, reading the old 2e adventures, it's amusing to see that almost none of them passed 10th level. The most epic of stories might have touched 12th level.

I started to map them to 4e tiers based to some extent on levels, but decided instead to make it more theme based. So Inifnite Staircase works as a decent heroic tier, whereas something as shaking as Faction War is paragon (partly because I want to play in the aftermath some as well as spend more time away from Sigil in the epic tier). Dead Gods will definitely go into the epic tier given the fact that it deals with, you know, dead gods. Modron March will probably begin in heroic and be a background element through much of heroic and paragon tiers since it starts off modest but leads into Dead Gods so well. In fact, I think it can work very nicely that way as an ongoing background story since it spreads across all of the Outer Planes. (and yes, I am absolutely using the old Great Wheel cosmology).

So, to answer your question - WotC views it as a paragon tier kinda place, but it's just as easy to start at level 1 as it is in any other setting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 scipion_emilien Dec 27, 2008 15:48:55	Im actually in the mist of starting a 4e planescape campaing. When I read the MoTP and the mercykiller article, I shiver. I was planning to start lvl 5 since our last campaing end lvl 4 and I wish to have some continuity with the last one. But then I saw in the MoTP the spelljamer lvl 18 with the planar ritual, the standard mercykiller soldier is lvl 10 :/ The plane still seem to be at least a paragon place.
#2 warghoul Dec 28, 2008 1:52:30	You can run a mid lvl PS campaign if the berks know how to keep their bone boxes shut and keep there noses clean. They have a chance keeping their names out of the 'book'. It all depends on where you take`em when it comes down to it I think.
#3 dulsi Dec 28, 2008 7:27:57	The plane still seem to be at least a paragon place. At think that is the way WotC intends to use it. If you want a lower level game you may simply have to create some low level version of the creatures.
#4 sdrowsfognik Dec 29, 2008 5:19:13	Yeah the planes are full of some really powerful characters, factions, groups, monsters, magics, and gods ... but so is any campaign setting when you really think about it. The original Planescape campaign setting box had some great ideas and suggestions on how to run a Planescape campaign at any level, including first. First of all, the planes are infinite, but as a DM you can exert a lot of control over a character's access to portals and travel. They don't call it the cage for nothing. With Sigil (or even some other planar location) as a neutral base of operations, you can control where the players can get to, and what they can encounter, and easily create adventures, or even "dungeons" in various locales that are of the appropriate level, and provide means of planar travel between the adventure spots and the character's home base. Secondly Sigil, while it is unlike any other city, is still a city. There's plenty of things to do, and adventures to be had in Sigil for low level characters - sure they need to keep their heads down and not pick fights with the bloods, but a first level character in a normal city campaign also shouldn't be picking fights with the king's elite guards or the head assassins of the local thieves' guild. I'd suggest getting your hands on as much of the old 2nd Edition Planescape material as you possibly can. Aside from being the best illustrated and most intriguing reading ever produced by TSR or WotC, these books were incredibly rules-lite for D&D supplements, and it is quite easy to base a whole campaign off of the information, philosophies, stories, settings and ideas in them using 4.0 rules, or really any gaming system you'd like. In the bygone days of 2nd I ran almost exclusively Planescape or Dark Sun games ... almost all my Planescape campaigns started at first level, and I never had any trouble with it. I'm sure that with a solid idea of what you've got planned for your game you won't have any trouble running a campaign at 5th level. Have fun!
#5 kaitoukage Dec 29, 2008 21:13:05	I would warn against the idea that Planescape requires high-level play. It doesn't. It's all in the matter of what you do, and there are plenty of lower-level opportunities for planar characters. Remember, being on the planes doesn't mean you have to encounter all the fiendish high-ups that are looking to dead-book you. It just means they're more prominent. A rather large number of the published Planescape adventures were written for lower-level characters. Granted, the power curve in 2e is a lot different from 4e, but the fact remains: Any level is appropriate for planar campaigns. It's all a matter of what you want out of the campaign. If your immediate goal is to go up in mortal combat against glabrezu or barbazu, then you'll certainly want a higher level game. If you want to just deal with the beliefs and ideas that represent the Planescape setting, you can still do a lot at lower levels.
#6 kenmarable Jan 11, 2009 0:30:32	I'd suggest getting your hands on as much of the old 2nd Edition Planescape material as you possibly can. Aside from being the best illustrated and most intriguing reading ever produced by TSR or WotC, these books were incredibly rules-lite for D&D supplements, and it is quite easy to base a whole campaign off of the information, philosophies, stories, settings and ideas in them using 4.0 rules, or really any gaming system you'd like. I agree. I'm currently converting Eternal Boundary to 4e to start off my Planescape campaign at level 1. In fact, reading the old 2e adventures, it's amusing to see that almost none of them passed 10th level. The most epic of stories might have touched 12th level. I started to map them to 4e tiers based to some extent on levels, but decided instead to make it more theme based. So Inifnite Staircase works as a decent heroic tier, whereas something as shaking as Faction War is paragon (partly because I want to play in the aftermath some as well as spend more time away from Sigil in the epic tier). Dead Gods will definitely go into the epic tier given the fact that it deals with, you know, dead gods. Modron March will probably begin in heroic and be a background element through much of heroic and paragon tiers since it starts off modest but leads into Dead Gods so well. In fact, I think it can work very nicely that way as an ongoing background story since it spreads across all of the Outer Planes. (and yes, I am absolutely using the old Great Wheel cosmology). So, to answer your question - WotC views it as a paragon tier kinda place, but it's just as easy to start at level 1 as it is in any other setting.