Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shadowbite1 Mar 14, 2009 18:19:46	Well the news has spread that the Dungeon Masters Guide 2 will feature a full write up of Sigil as an important homebase for Paragon Level characters. So I wanted to know what all of us the devoted Planescape fans especially hope, fear, and expect to be in Sigil's 4e write up. I guess I'll point out the obvious to start, it seems that Sigil has been designated a paragon level city and that the idea of low level adventurers travelling the planes has been axed. Another thing is that there is no more Blood War, while this doesn't directly affect Sigil itself (other than the ocassional Blood War spillover into the Slags), but it does seem rather odd and changes things a bit. One thing I hope they keep is the notion of Sigil being THE premier cross planar Hub and that you could potentially find anything and a way to anywhere from here. That and the notion of seeing Angels, Slaad, Demons, and more walking down the street.
#2 Steeljaw Mar 15, 2009 8:44:10	Even though it may not be my perfect re-invention of Sigil I am glad they are bringing it back and going into detail about the city. If nothing else they will be updating stuff to 4E rules which is a good thing. Also, I can't wait to get some better maps than what was found in the old Planescape material. DM's can always make changes to Sigil so that it fits your vision. I'm excited and can't wait for it to come out.
#3 nerdicus Mar 16, 2009 11:28:31	I just hope it still has the factions. I doubt they will do more then list them and what they stand for in the DMG2, but as long as they include them it is all good.
#4 liberator Mar 21, 2009 17:40:15	Factions would be cool. I'm actually running 'Dead Gods' right now with 4E. I started the players out at 1st level. They're 6th now and just finished the first story arc. It makes sense that they would go Paragon level for Sigil as a homebase. I've been sticking as close as I can to the original cosmology and just hand waiving things that don't fit. Eventually, I plan on having the players get sucked into The Blood War somehow.
#5 addle-cove-anarchist Mar 26, 2009 17:48:14	probably won't be useful, generic, like in the Planar Handbook a paragon level city, I don't understand this preconception that you need to be 10+ level to survive in the planes, just shows how the designers are familiar with Sigil
#6 shadowbite1 Mar 26, 2009 18:15:08	I'd say my biggest hope is that they explore and push the idea that you don't have to fight everything that gets into your way. One of the quotes I remember in the planewalkers handbook was that (I'm paraphrasing) "a true planewalker knows when to fight and when to avoid a fight. A planewalker also knows the power of subtlety and words". That said, I have a feeling that planar adventures and adventurers in Sigil are just going to be "monster stomping and take their stuff" adventures in a new locale. Which I think is incredibly unfortunate. Am I being pessimistic or realistic?
#7 ripvanwormer Mar 30, 2009 8:02:35	Being a paragon-level city doesn't mean first-level characters can't adventure there, and it doesn't mean that everyone in the town is paragon-level; it just means that the city's too dangerous for heroic-tier characters to go in full-throttle, slaughtering every obstruction in sight. Epic-level creatures are too rare for it to be an epic-level city, but you can have epic-level adventures there too, if you want. It's a whole city, not a single dungeon. People who want to adventure in Sigil starting at first level will have to keep in mind that there are a lot of dangerous encounters there, and be prepared to bluff and flee rather than resorting to brute force. This is no different from how it was in 2nd edition; you're not just going to meet shadar-kai and orcs, but angels, archons, and azers. People who want to adventure in Sigil at 20th-30th levels will want to look for extraordinary places, like the tower of a githyanki archmagus guarded by astral stalkers. That sounds like an excellent compromise to me. Heroic tier would mean that encounters with paragon tier planar creatures are extremely rare, which isn't how Sigil is at all. Sigil's a place where you can meet a group of barbazu on a street corner, which is nicely a paragon-level encounter if you're stupid enough to try and slaughter them. As for my hopes and fears, I fear that the DMG2 version of Sigil will be yet another rehash of the same material we saw in the Planar Handbook and the 4e Manual of the Planes, which in my opinion didn't do justice to how interesting the city could really be. I'd rather see something new that really thinks about how it's the crossroads of a thousand planes and cultures. I've also been disappointed that they're still presenting Sigil as a virtual anarchy where the Lady of Pain's omnipotent fiat is the only true law. That was meant to be an extremely temporary situation immediately following the Faction War, not the way the city is forever. Jeeze. Give the place some order already, and keep the Lady in the background as a mystery. My hope is that we'll see some Sigil-based adventures revolving around putting the factions back in power in some form, which would work very well at the paragon tier (heroic characters are too unestablished, and epic-level characters are a bit beyond such concerns, but I can easily see the characters finishing 20th level as faction high-ups, spending the next ten levels finishing their epic character destinies in the planes beyond, visiting Sigil only to rest or at certain critical junctions where only the city to everywhere is central enough for fate to be decided). Heroic tier: characters perform errands, bust up low-level gangs and drug runners, explore mostly the parallel and material planes with rarer excursions elsewhere. They live in Sigil, but they step quietly until they've proven themselves. They may find themselves owing favors to more powerful Sigilians, but if they're lucky they may find more powerful characters in their debt, and be able to cash in as they rise in level. Paragon tier: characters are bloods, now, capable of dealing with most Sigilians as equals, zipping across the multiverse with confidence. They climb the city's ladders of power, determining the direction of politics, and finish off 20th level as leaders of factions, sects, guilds, or the equivalent. Epic tier: Now as virtual avatars of philosophical or planar concepts, characters move beyond their bases of power in Sigil to become planar lords. Still, Sigil is a critical nexus of the cosmos, and events with much larger repercussions may be decided here. Other epic opponents may also use Sigil as a base, though they commonly keep themselves secluded, either considering themselves beyond petty political concerns or manipulating the factions, Golden Lords, and fiendish and celestial paragons as puppets beyond the scenes. At lower levels the player characters may have been unaware of their existence, but now they're the equals of the chessmasters of the planes.
#8 joni-san Sep 15, 2009 20:05:09	Interviewer: It is safe to assume that you guys are little by little building the assumed world through multiple sources:  stuff in the published adventures, the new location books that were announced, Fallcrest in the DMG, and now Sigil in the DMG2.  What can you tell us about the 4e version of Sigil? James Wyatt: We reintroduced Sigil to the game in the Manual of the Planes, but it gets a lot more attention in DMG2. Michele Carter, who was the editor for a tremendous number of 2nd Edition Planescape books, was also the lead editor for DMG2 and took a tremendous interest in this chapter from start to finish, so Planescape fans can trust that we haven’t done terrible violence to their favorite planar metropolis. One of the exciting things about Sigil as it appears in DMG2 is that we’ve found a way to reintroduce the idea of gate-towns—the planar villages that ringed the outskirts of the Outlands and contained portals to all the outer planes. The 4e gate-towns are suburbs of Sigil that exist in every other plane in our smaller multiverse, giving planar adventurers clear connections to Sigil wherever their travels may take them. From: 1d12 questions with James Wyatt.
#9 famoth83 Sep 16, 2009 10:34:16	*decides against creating a new thread* I picked it up yesterday, and most of my efforts in examining it has been on Chapter 5 and 6. The write up of Sigil does a very good job of describing the city, covering some of the details I've seen people comlaining about being missing like the Dabus. But while it describes the city, it only describes the factions in passing. I obviously can't quote entire passages from the book, so I'll mostly point in the right direction so those interested can look up the details when they get a copy. The Factions are referenced most strongly on page 192, under the section The Brink of Anarchy, where it is mentioned that the factions once existed but after a terrible war were kicked out. Phrases along the lines of "after the factions" follow fairly regularly for the rest of the description of Sigil. On the same page the Transcendent Order get a mention due to Rhys being on the Advisory Council, and the Sons of Mercy get a mention a section though it focuses on their role as prison keepers and citizens on patrol. On page 198 the Civic Festhall gets mentioned, though with no reference to the Faction that used to run it. On page 200 the Dustmen get mentioned as the founders of the Mortuary Guild in the wake of the Faction War, which is almost the most coverage any of the Factions get individually in the book as Factions. Finally on page 209 the Bleak Cable are mentioned concerning the Gate Town Bedlam. So if you want anything on the Factions you need to turn to old matierial. If anyone else can spot major references, shoot them out. I'm kind of reading with half a canteen of oil here, so I'm not catching everything.
#10 quale1 Sep 23, 2009 16:29:31	suburbs of Sigil, chucklesome not including factions is like not including humans as a playable race
#11 Acrylium Sep 25, 2009 17:13:03	not including factions is like not including humans as a playable race I'll second that!