Newb Question: What was th Faction War - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Newb Question: What was th Faction War

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Darth_Caffeineus
Jan 21, 2010 9:15:45 In the DMG 2 write up of Sigil I saw a reference that the Lady of Pain finally had enough of the factions and threw them out of the city ending the war.

Can someone summarize the conflict and also give their thoughts on why the plot line was ended in the new edition?
#2
Darth_Caffeineus
Jan 21, 2010 13:55:50
I just looked over the faction article on wikepida and all I can say is wow.

I really like 4E fluff, (the new makeup of the planes, the new phb pantheon, making the whole universe less black and white, the current fr time line etc.) but I will definitely use the 2E fluff on the faction war if I ever run a planescape game.

Sadly all my games are very intrigue and faction based and I think my players would like me to do something different in my next campaign. Probably I will just use a different theme but have the party have to go to Sigil from time to time to exprience some faction-tastic goodness and agnst.
#3
yakman
Jan 22, 2010 10:53:52

I just looked over the faction article on wikepida and all I can say is wow.

I really like 4E fluff, (the new makeup of the planes, the new phb pantheon, making the whole universe less black and white, the current fr time line etc.) but I will definitely use the 2E fluff on the faction war if I ever run a planescape game.

Sadly all my games are very intrigue and faction based and I think my players would like me to do something different in my next campaign. Probably I will just use a different theme but have the party have to go to Sigil from time to time to exprience some faction-tastic goodness and agnst.

yeah, Faction War is pretty cool. i never got to play it, but i got the book a while ago...

as far as less black and white, planescape is about as gray as things get (aside from the Wastes...). Essentially any alignment player can belong to any faction (there are some restrictions, but they are mostly lawful/chaotic, not good/evil), and the critical conflict in the Planes is depicted not as the Upper Planes against the Lower ones, but the Planes of Order (Law) against the Planes of Chaos.

so, don't think it's "good" Signers against "Evil" Mercykillers. It's not. The motivations of the factions are what is important, not some Alignment.
#4
warghoul
Jan 23, 2010 7:34:51 Yeah its more law vs chaos then good vs evil.
#5
Darth_Caffeineus
Jan 23, 2010 18:01:50 I agree.

I was not saying that the 2E faction war was black vs. white, just that older editions and settings (with the exception of dark sun and planescape) tended to be more black and white than they are in 4E which plays up more alignment ambiguity.

I never played Planescape in 2E (or read any of the books) so looking at it now for the first time, I was blown away with how edgy and innovative was, at time when D&D was not particularly known for either.
#6
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Feb 20, 2010 15:32:56
I agree.

I was not saying that the 2E faction war was black vs. white, just that older editions and settings (with the exception of dark sun and planescape) tended to be more black and white than they are in 4E which plays up more alignment ambiguity.

I never played Planescape in 2E (or read any of the books) so looking at it now for the first time, I was blown away with how edgy and innovative was, at time when D&D was not particularly known for either.

The 4e fluff does not hold a candle to the 2e fluff. I can only recommend you find the original 2e source material on the topic and devour it happily and hungrily. It is delicious.

The thing is, the 2e material was less black and white than the 3e or the 4e material. Tons of moral ambiguity abounded, but within that muddied ocean of greys, there were still the blacks and whites of celestials and fiends. Nothing was simple, everything was complex, and with very slim exception we've never seen anything come close to that level of awesome since then with regards to planar material.

I'm not so sure that 4e plays up alignment ambiguity so much as it doesn't bother to address those complex issues in the first place.
#7
The_Silversword
May 21, 2010 6:05:34 Can someone fill me in on what happened to the Dustmen during and after the Faction Wars. Were they booted out of Sigil as well? Where are they calling home now?
#8
deacon_liadon
May 30, 2010 17:14:58 The Dustmen, as a faction, technically no longer exist, though they do still have their out-of-city holdings.

The Mortuary is now run by a group of barmies who think they're dead and go around all emotionless n't stuff. They're willing to tell anyone who asks about their philosophies, but they don't go around advertising it for fear of attracting the attention of Her Serenity. And She seems content enough to let them do just that.

It's been rumoured though, that Skall's been sighted wander the halls of the Mortuary of late.

The same thing happened to the Bleakers.

The Xaositects were never really a faction, except they were except they weren't except on Tuesdays when they were Johnson, Jarvis and Co.

The Anarchs, similarly, were technically never a faction, and since the Faction War have been so riven by in-fighting that they won't be one again any time soon.

The Doomguard followed their principals a bit too closely and fell apart. The three groups have become four and are currently in a state of semi-cold war with each other.

The Mercykillers split up in to the groups that formed them: The Sons of Mercy, a right bunch of hopeless do-godders and the Sodkillers, a bunch of mercenaries who'd much rather kill you than look at you.

The Signers and the Godsmen realised that they weren't so different after all and joined together as The Mind's Eye. They still think they're gods though, and still have the arrogance to prove it.

The Harmonium upped sticks and left, heading back to Arcadia to keep pretending they had nothing to do with a layer going missing there. They have gotten a bit nicer under their new leader though, so they may have a chance at getting it back.

The Athar, after they got kicked out, fled to the only other place they could be safe - the base of the Spire itself. Rumour has it that they're not getting on particularly well with the Rilmani.

The Fated are in a bit of a bother. They're not well-liked at the moment. People hold a grudge for the whole starting a war thing. They've fled and scattered and are now working on getting back together and getting back in to the others good books rather than the dead books.

The Guvner's are the Guvner's but for now they've abandoned the City courts and headed back to Mechanus. One day though, possibly one day soon, they'll find the rules that govern how Sigil works and then they'll be back.

The Indeps aren't a faction and never were a faction, though everyone who wasn't an Indep claimed they were. They've continued doing what they did before, but a lot of their efforts now are concentrated on keeping Estavan and his Consortium out of Tradegate.

The Sensates continue as they were. They're the force behind the so-called Entertainer's Guild that now runs the Civic Festhall in Sigil. Outside of this though, they've developed a darker side and now bide their time in the Guilded Hall on Arborea.

The Ciphers, well, they probably came out of the War better thatn anyone. During the war they didn't pick sides, and due to Rhys deciding to take a trip couple of days before the other Factols got mazed, they still have the leader. They may not call themselves a faction any more, but they carry on as they always did, moving along to the cadence of the planes.
#9
The_Silversword
Jun 13, 2010 16:50:15 Thank you again Deacon_Liadon for that insightful post. So I guess Ive got free reign to use the Dustmen however I want, Excellent!
#10
slaadron
Sep 22, 2010 5:11:19
The 4e fluff does not hold a candle to the 2e fluff. I can only recommend you find the original 2e source material on the topic and devour it happily and hungrily. It is delicious.

The thing is, the 2e material was less black and white than the 3e or the 4e material. Tons of moral ambiguity abounded, but within that muddied ocean of greys, there were still the blacks and whites of celestials and fiends. Nothing was simple, everything was complex, and with very slim exception we've never seen anything come close to that level of awesome since then with regards to planar material.

I'm not so sure that 4e plays up alignment ambiguity so much as it doesn't bother to address those complex issues in the first place.

I wholeheartedly agree with this suggestion. Use the original 2e sources, they are just so much better...
#11
ravel8
Sep 30, 2010 12:59:12 Back to the op the faction war book was really just the story of how the factor , ( ie the leader) of the Takers ttyed and falled to take on the Lady of Pain . As for the ending of the factions well it seem tacked on , and just to pushed the factions to the planes , so they could write campain books dealing with the planes and not Sigil .

and i agree the 2ed Planscape books where so well written , plotted and lored blowes 4e out of the water .
#12
-stygia-
May 02, 2011 3:17:10
The Dustmen, as a faction, technically no longer exist, though they do still have their out-of-city holdings.

The Mortuary is now run by a group of barmies who think they're dead and go around all emotionless n't stuff. They're willing to tell anyone who asks about their philosophies, but they don't go around advertising it for fear of attracting the attention of Her Serenity. And She seems content enough to let them do just that.

It's been rumoured though, that Skall's been sighted wander the halls of the Mortuary of late.

skall was tossed into the maze's along with a bunch of the other factol's
#13
deacon_liadon
May 02, 2011 5:59:29
skall was tossed into the maze's along with a bunch of the other factol's

A maze can be escaped from. One of the events that, technically, precipitated the Faction War was someone escaping from a maze. (Rowan Darkwood)

#14
nemedia
May 18, 2011 23:07:16 Hello guys! Let me ask something: I'm adapting the material from the original boxed set + Well of Worlds to 4e, and my players have now reached level 10 without having really sided with any Faction.

But I'd like them to, and I even have some material on what boons one could get by aligning up with a Faction (sorta like Themes). But I don't know if a group would work if each member aligned with a different Faction. On the other hand, I think it's kinda boring if I'd forced them all to join the same Faction.

This is my predicament. Any dark for this clueless berk?
#15
warghoul
May 21, 2011 13:51:30    I would talk about it out of game with your players. Let them know your interested in running some faction
based games. Show`em some of the pros and cons of each faction. After that if your players are into it
and want to join the signers or whatever great if not I think your S.O.L.
#16
nemedia
May 21, 2011 15:45:12 Yeah, but I thinking about each one joining a different (not antagonistic) Faction, or if two join one faction and three, another (again, not antagonistic Factions, such as ). You think they'd work together still or the party would inevitably sink into in-fighting?

I mean, is it "realistic" to have a multi-Faction party or not? Which Factions would work well (more or less) together? For example, Athar and Godsmen don't seem to have a quarry with each other, right?
#17
warghoul
May 22, 2011 18:05:13 Sure its doable. Here is a quick list pre faction war. Remember its not always good vs evil in planescape.

www.planewalker.com may be a place to check out also.

Athar allies believers of the source
Believers of the source   allies Athar and temporary ally Doomguard
Bleak Cabal allies   doomguard, dustmen, rev. league, xaositects
Doom guard Allies Bleak Cabal and dustmen
Dustmen allies bleak cabal and doomguard
Fated allies Free league and mercykillers (loosely)
fraternity of order allies harmonium and mercykillers
Free league allies Fated sometimes
harmonium   allies guveners and mercykillers
mercykillers   allies guvners and harmonium
Revolutionary league allies doomguard xaositects (weak tie)
sign of one allies sensates
society of sensation allies sign of one occasionally indeps, guvners
Transcendent order allies most factions
zaositects allies bleak cabal and doomguard
#18
nemedia
May 22, 2011 19:20:34 Thank you very, very much! That was exactly what I was looking for.

As I allowed The Transcendent Order, the Mercykillers, the Society of Sensation, the Free League, and the Revolutionary League to my players, using your chart things will mesh up well.

Thanks again!
#19
warghoul
May 25, 2011 17:56:59
Thank you very, very much! That was exactly what I was looking for.

As I allowed The Transcendent Order, the Mercykillers, the Society of Sensation, the Free League, and the Revolutionary League to my players, using your chart things will mesh up well.

Thanks again!

Let me know how it works out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Darth_Caffeineus Jan 21, 2010 9:15:45	In the DMG 2 write up of Sigil I saw a reference that the Lady of Pain finally had enough of the factions and threw them out of the city ending the war. Can someone summarize the conflict and also give their thoughts on why the plot line was ended in the new edition?
#2 Darth_Caffeineus Jan 21, 2010 13:55:50	I just looked over the faction article on wikepida and all I can say is wow. I really like 4E fluff, (the new makeup of the planes, the new phb pantheon, making the whole universe less black and white, the current fr time line etc.) but I will definitely use the 2E fluff on the faction war if I ever run a planescape game. Sadly all my games are very intrigue and faction based and I think my players would like me to do something different in my next campaign. Probably I will just use a different theme but have the party have to go to Sigil from time to time to exprience some faction-tastic goodness and agnst.
#3 yakman Jan 22, 2010 10:53:52	I just looked over the faction article on wikepida and all I can say is wow. I really like 4E fluff, (the new makeup of the planes, the new phb pantheon, making the whole universe less black and white, the current fr time line etc.) but I will definitely use the 2E fluff on the faction war if I ever run a planescape game. Sadly all my games are very intrigue and faction based and I think my players would like me to do something different in my next campaign. Probably I will just use a different theme but have the party have to go to Sigil from time to time to exprience some faction-tastic goodness and agnst. yeah, Faction War is pretty cool. i never got to play it, but i got the book a while ago... as far as less black and white, planescape is about as gray as things get (aside from the Wastes...). Essentially any alignment player can belong to any faction (there are some restrictions, but they are mostly lawful/chaotic, not good/evil), and the critical conflict in the Planes is depicted not as the Upper Planes against the Lower ones, but the Planes of Order (Law) against the Planes of Chaos. so, don't think it's "good" Signers against "Evil" Mercykillers. It's not. The motivations of the factions are what is important, not some Alignment.
#4 warghoul Jan 23, 2010 7:34:51	Yeah its more law vs chaos then good vs evil.
#5 Darth_Caffeineus Jan 23, 2010 18:01:50	I agree. I was not saying that the 2E faction war was black vs. white, just that older editions and settings (with the exception of dark sun and planescape) tended to be more black and white than they are in 4E which plays up more alignment ambiguity. I never played Planescape in 2E (or read any of the books) so looking at it now for the first time, I was blown away with how edgy and innovative was, at time when D&D was not particularly known for either.
#6 Shemeska_the_Marauder Feb 20, 2010 15:32:56	I agree. I was not saying that the 2E faction war was black vs. white, just that older editions and settings (with the exception of dark sun and planescape) tended to be more black and white than they are in 4E which plays up more alignment ambiguity. I never played Planescape in 2E (or read any of the books) so looking at it now for the first time, I was blown away with how edgy and innovative was, at time when D&D was not particularly known for either. The 4e fluff does not hold a candle to the 2e fluff. I can only recommend you find the original 2e source material on the topic and devour it happily and hungrily. It is delicious. The thing is, the 2e material was less black and white than the 3e or the 4e material. Tons of moral ambiguity abounded, but within that muddied ocean of greys, there were still the blacks and whites of celestials and fiends. Nothing was simple, everything was complex, and with very slim exception we've never seen anything come close to that level of awesome since then with regards to planar material. I'm not so sure that 4e plays up alignment ambiguity so much as it doesn't bother to address those complex issues in the first place.
#7 The_Silversword May 21, 2010 6:05:34	Can someone fill me in on what happened to the Dustmen during and after the Faction Wars. Were they booted out of Sigil as well? Where are they calling home now?
#8 deacon_liadon May 30, 2010 17:14:58	The Dustmen, as a faction, technically no longer exist, though they do still have their out-of-city holdings. The Mortuary is now run by a group of barmies who think they're dead and go around all emotionless n't stuff. They're willing to tell anyone who asks about their philosophies, but they don't go around advertising it for fear of attracting the attention of Her Serenity. And She seems content enough to let them do just that. It's been rumoured though, that Skall's been sighted wander the halls of the Mortuary of late. The same thing happened to the Bleakers. The Xaositects were never really a faction, except they were except they weren't except on Tuesdays when they were Johnson, Jarvis and Co. The Anarchs, similarly, were technically never a faction, and since the Faction War have been so riven by in-fighting that they won't be one again any time soon. The Doomguard followed their principals a bit too closely and fell apart. The three groups have become four and are currently in a state of semi-cold war with each other. The Mercykillers split up in to the groups that formed them: The Sons of Mercy, a right bunch of hopeless do-godders and the Sodkillers, a bunch of mercenaries who'd much rather kill you than look at you. The Signers and the Godsmen realised that they weren't so different after all and joined together as The Mind's Eye. They still think they're gods though, and still have the arrogance to prove it. The Harmonium upped sticks and left, heading back to Arcadia to keep pretending they had nothing to do with a layer going missing there. They have gotten a bit nicer under their new leader though, so they may have a chance at getting it back. The Athar, after they got kicked out, fled to the only other place they could be safe - the base of the Spire itself. Rumour has it that they're not getting on particularly well with the Rilmani. The Fated are in a bit of a bother. They're not well-liked at the moment. People hold a grudge for the whole starting a war thing. They've fled and scattered and are now working on getting back together and getting back in to the others good books rather than the dead books. The Guvner's are the Guvner's but for now they've abandoned the City courts and headed back to Mechanus. One day though, possibly one day soon, they'll find the rules that govern how Sigil works and then they'll be back. The Indeps aren't a faction and never were a faction, though everyone who wasn't an Indep claimed they were. They've continued doing what they did before, but a lot of their efforts now are concentrated on keeping Estavan and his Consortium out of Tradegate. The Sensates continue as they were. They're the force behind the so-called Entertainer's Guild that now runs the Civic Festhall in Sigil. Outside of this though, they've developed a darker side and now bide their time in the Guilded Hall on Arborea. The Ciphers, well, they probably came out of the War better thatn anyone. During the war they didn't pick sides, and due to Rhys deciding to take a trip couple of days before the other Factols got mazed, they still have the leader. They may not call themselves a faction any more, but they carry on as they always did, moving along to the cadence of the planes.
#9 The_Silversword Jun 13, 2010 16:50:15	Thank you again Deacon_Liadon for that insightful post. So I guess Ive got free reign to use the Dustmen however I want, Excellent!
#10 slaadron Sep 22, 2010 5:11:19	The 4e fluff does not hold a candle to the 2e fluff. I can only recommend you find the original 2e source material on the topic and devour it happily and hungrily. It is delicious. The thing is, the 2e material was less black and white than the 3e or the 4e material. Tons of moral ambiguity abounded, but within that muddied ocean of greys, there were still the blacks and whites of celestials and fiends. Nothing was simple, everything was complex, and with very slim exception we've never seen anything come close to that level of awesome since then with regards to planar material. I'm not so sure that 4e plays up alignment ambiguity so much as it doesn't bother to address those complex issues in the first place. I wholeheartedly agree with this suggestion. Use the original 2e sources, they are just so much better...
#11 ravel8 Sep 30, 2010 12:59:12	Back to the op the faction war book was really just the story of how the factor , ( ie the leader) of the Takers ttyed and falled to take on the Lady of Pain . As for the ending of the factions well it seem tacked on , and just to pushed the factions to the planes , so they could write campain books dealing with the planes and not Sigil . and i agree the 2ed Planscape books where so well written , plotted and lored blowes 4e out of the water .
#12 -stygia- May 02, 2011 3:17:10	The Dustmen, as a faction, technically no longer exist, though they do still have their out-of-city holdings. The Mortuary is now run by a group of barmies who think they're dead and go around all emotionless n't stuff. They're willing to tell anyone who asks about their philosophies, but they don't go around advertising it for fear of attracting the attention of Her Serenity. And She seems content enough to let them do just that. It's been rumoured though, that Skall's been sighted wander the halls of the Mortuary of late. skall was tossed into the maze's along with a bunch of the other factol's
#13 deacon_liadon May 02, 2011 5:59:29	skall was tossed into the maze's along with a bunch of the other factol's A maze can be escaped from. One of the events that, technically, precipitated the Faction War was someone escaping from a maze. (Rowan Darkwood)
#14 nemedia May 18, 2011 23:07:16	Hello guys! Let me ask something: I'm adapting the material from the original boxed set + Well of Worlds to 4e, and my players have now reached level 10 without having really sided with any Faction. But I'd like them to, and I even have some material on what boons one could get by aligning up with a Faction (sorta like Themes). But I don't know if a group would work if each member aligned with a different Faction. On the other hand, I think it's kinda boring if I'd forced them all to join the same Faction. This is my predicament. Any dark for this clueless berk?
#15 warghoul May 21, 2011 13:51:30	I would talk about it out of game with your players. Let them know your interested in running some faction based games. Show`em some of the pros and cons of each faction. After that if your players are into it and want to join the signers or whatever great if not I think your S.O.L.
#16 nemedia May 21, 2011 15:45:12	Yeah, but I thinking about each one joining a different (not antagonistic) Faction, or if two join one faction and three, another (again, not antagonistic Factions, such as ). You think they'd work together still or the party would inevitably sink into in-fighting? I mean, is it "realistic" to have a multi-Faction party or not? Which Factions would work well (more or less) together? For example, Athar and Godsmen don't seem to have a quarry with each other, right?
#17 warghoul May 22, 2011 18:05:13	Sure its doable. Here is a quick list pre faction war. Remember its not always good vs evil in planescape. www.planewalker.com may be a place to check out also. Athar allies believers of the source Believers of the source allies Athar and temporary ally Doomguard Bleak Cabal allies doomguard, dustmen, rev. league, xaositects Doom guard Allies Bleak Cabal and dustmen Dustmen allies bleak cabal and doomguard Fated allies Free league and mercykillers (loosely) fraternity of order allies harmonium and mercykillers Free league allies Fated sometimes harmonium allies guveners and mercykillers mercykillers allies guvners and harmonium Revolutionary league allies doomguard xaositects (weak tie) sign of one allies sensates society of sensation allies sign of one occasionally indeps, guvners Transcendent order allies most factions zaositects allies bleak cabal and doomguard
#18 nemedia May 22, 2011 19:20:34	Thank you very, very much! That was exactly what I was looking for. As I allowed The Transcendent Order, the Mercykillers, the Society of Sensation, the Free League, and the Revolutionary League to my players, using your chart things will mesh up well. Thanks again!
#19 warghoul May 25, 2011 17:56:59	Thank you very, very much! That was exactly what I was looking for. As I allowed The Transcendent Order, the Mercykillers, the Society of Sensation, the Free League, and the Revolutionary League to my players, using your chart things will mesh up well. Thanks again! Let me know how it works out.