Planescape for low level characters?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

shrykull_dup

Nov 03, 2008 20:28:33
In 2E the outer planes were called the planes of power not the inner ones, and do any of still tend to think that way? That you'd have to be very powerful just to survive in a lower plane, even the first layer?

Unless your dm pits you against mundune creatures like manes, etc, but that would be boring. In pre-planescape these planes were considered dangerous hard to get to. And what kind of adventures could you have in the upper planes are a non-evil character, since most everyone is good.
#2

hidaakira

Nov 04, 2008 4:16:54
I gather you haven't read Planescape, have you?

There are plenty of adventures to be had without having to do some boring dungeon crawl and slaughter everything you come across.
Planescape was about ideas.
The sense of wonder in exploring the planes, and a good GM can make a simple travelogue sound like an adventure, even if the PCs don't draw a weapon or solve a single problem.

And don't forget the ideas. The idea that belief is the cornerstone of the Planes. That belief can change reality. That a person who believes strongly enough can do some pretty amazing things. This sort of environment lends itself very well to some deep role playing with a lot of challenges to your belief. If you need ideas, look at other RPGs where conflict and challenges to your belief are the core, like Dogs in the Vineyard (I don't really like the game, but it does a decent job of putting the problems of belief at the center of a character).

Fighting monsters is just incidental, or the ultimate expression of a clash of beliefs. It's not the point of the game.
#3

suin_bahhar_02

Nov 08, 2008 11:52:57
Hmmf... Any environment is perilous to a first level character. Why not throw them in the deep, into a role of the hunted, right from the beginning? Makes for some good roleplaying and inventive solutions.

From level 5 and up planar characters can start to carve a niche and but some bite of themselves into their planar travels.
#4

shrykull_dup

Nov 12, 2008 19:03:30
Hmmf... Any environment is perilous to a first level character. Why not throw them in the deep, into a role of the hunted, right from the beginning? Makes for some good roleplaying and inventive solutions.

From level 5 and up planar characters can start to carve a niche and but some bite of themselves into their planar travels.

But, come on, talk about the Abyss the plane of chaotic evil incarnate, even manes are very dangerous to 5th level characters.
#5

lord_of_the_ninth_02

Nov 28, 2008 16:31:05
Very few PCs should last very long in the planes unless they are either very very powerful or believe that they can resolve a certain percentage of conflicts without directly attacking their enemies or would be enemies.

If you're in a low level planescape campaign you basically should think of your enemies as being in three catagories:

1. If they get in my way I can fight them and I'll win often enough that it's worth it (lemures for level characters).

2. If they get in my way I should run a lot and think real hard about new character ideas (the Lady of Pain for anyone).

3. If they get in my way I could fight them, but I'd have to make sure someone from group 2 doesn't hear about it (Dabus).


Also, I wouldn't say that the Outer Planes demand that the PCs be more powerful than the Inner Planes do, it's just that in the Inner Planes one's biggest problem is usually the plane itself. Different kinds of problems. I would definitely put a party of level 1 characters in the Abyss before I'd put them in the elemental plane of fire, all else being equal.
#6

lord_karsus

Dec 01, 2008 18:08:38
-I don't think that Planescape necessarily means, or has to be, travel across the various planes of existence. I mean, I think that I would be very happy in a campaign that simply took place in Sigil.
#7

lord_of_the_ninth_02

Dec 02, 2008 3:27:00
Very true. At low levels a party might well remain in the city the whole time, possibly making the odd side trip to a gatetown or two.

Barring a brief trip to Pandemonium the first planescape campaign I ever DMed went like that.
#8

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 03, 2008 10:47:34
I heard of a campaign that included an NPC wizard 10/planeshifter 10/ epic planshifter 5 (I love that class!). It has an ability to stabilze the planar areas 10 ft/level around him to his liking and can swap 100 ft/level radius areas from plane to plane.

So this figure went out and created interesting encounters just by messing with the environments the characters where on. Confronting him would result in rapid succesion of planeshifts of the area they fought in to hostile planes.

But essentially an planetravelling NPC or monster could make it possible for lowlevel adventurers to travel amongst or make expeditions to the planes. Perhaps by giving a tool or item to help survive particular planes.

Some more survivable planes are most of the godly domains, especially the good dieties. But finding evil to battle on such a plane requires some interesting thought on story elements. Perhaps the best way is to make some sort of exploration or site based quest with puzzles or trying to convince the service of a forgotten intelligent item with identity problems somewhere on the outskirts of the plane. Perhaps a random encounter with planetravelling adventurers or two. Finding or battling important or strayed petetioners could be interesting, or redeeming ghosts or other fettered souls.
#9

lord_karsus

Dec 03, 2008 11:06:00
But finding evil to battle on such a plane requires some interesting thought on story elements. Perhaps the best way is to make some sort of exploration or site based quest with puzzles or trying to convince the service of a forgotten intelligent item with identity problems somewhere on the outskirts of the plane. Perhaps a random encounter with planetravelling adventurers or two. Finding or battling important or strayed petetioners could be interesting, or redeeming ghosts or other fettered souls.

-That's assuming that battling evil is the only thing that makes an adventure. There's plenty of non-combat things that can take place, that can constitute an adventure.
#10

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 03, 2008 11:15:42
But it is certainly possible, albeit a little tricky, to have combat encounters on goodly domains aswell. An more settled area would lend iitself for a more intrigue oriented game, and there tempers could flare into combat situations.

Perhaps two rival angelic organisations with aeons of past disputes and differences finally come to a simmering standoff in a particular defensive bastion near a bordergate to an evil plane. It gets attacked by a suspiciously organised group of demons. After the attack the organisations suspect eachother for traitors and hire PC's to uncover the unbiased truth.
#11

ravel8

May 26, 2010 18:15:06
Funny enoth  playing low  level chars in the Cage is an expidation for experenced players . At frist level you can't really excange fists let alone cuffs but you can find the Berk who is closing down the portals and sell that info , call the gaurds, and let the scary killers go after eachor.

At theos frist levels you have to accually think you way out of the  box. One of my favs , adventures was when  3,  level 2 players where able to take  down  a kindom through misdirection , bribs and hiring other npc adventures . It was great though the net gold gane was -500 gp , per player  and we had to cause a famin ,  but we  where able to do it . 
#12

randem_joe

Aug 30, 2010 17:08:16
I would definitely put a party of level 1 characters in the Abyss before I'd put them in the elemental plane of fire, all else being equal.




If I remember correctly, weren't a few of the abyssal planes just as deadly as the plain of fire?  Toxic atmospheres, landscapes of acidic sludge, endless seizmic catastrophies?  It's almost 6 on one and a half-dozen on the other.  Smile

While I agree that I'd be slightly more inclined to put a group of level 1's in the Abyss before the plane of fire, I'd rather put those level 1's just about ANYWHERE than the Abyss!  Laughing

If the landscape doesn't wipe them, the locals surely will.

To the original poster, I don't think it's necessarily a game breaker for low level critters to adventure in most of the outer planes if there's a reasonable story behind it.  Just because they journey into hell (for example) doesn't mean that everybody there is out to kill them.  It's the plane of tyrrany, however, so the party will probably have to be wary of excessive red tape and beauacracy.

In such an adventure, they could easily be hired by a magistrate or pencil pusher to do a job (find something, kidnap somebody, clear out some monsters) just like anywhere else, but with a bit of flavoring to remind them that they're not in the most cheerful of settings.

My main word of caution is that they need to remember that that the planes are not a dungeon to explore.  They're entire worlds - even entire dimensions of worlds, and they'll have their own rich and poor, their own politics and struggles, unique economies, and even PEOPLE - all with their own hopes, dreams, and nightmares to go with them.

The power curve might be less forgiving, so your players should remember that they're very small fish in a very large ocean, but there should be PLENTY of opportunities for really great adventures or even full-blown campaigns.

I've run many Planescape campaigns, but there will always be two that stick out in my mind as particularly unique and interesting.  One took place in Bytopea, on an island continent far from Tradegate.  The continent was ruled by a vast hobgoblin empire, which had set the continent to drift far from the others.

The other was an "Escape from New York" kind of game.  Less permanent as far as home bases - the party was always on the move.  For three years I ran a game where the party was moving from world to world in the prison dimension of Carceri.

It was great.  The players still bring it up to me about those good old days.
#13

randem_joe

Aug 30, 2010 19:36:54
Some more survivable planes are most of the godly domains, especially the good dieties.



That can definately be the case, but the opposite can also be true.  I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the domain of Thor unless I had pressing business there.  Thor and his followers can be violent and unpredictable, and they have no patience for those that would waste their time.


But finding evil to battle on such a plane requires some interesting thought on story elements. Perhaps the best way is to make some sort of exploration or site based quest with puzzles or trying to convince the service of a forgotten intelligent item with identity problems somewhere on the outskirts of the plane. Perhaps a random encounter with planetravelling adventurers or two. Finding or battling important or strayed petetioners could be interesting, or redeeming ghosts or other fettered souls.



I would like to suggest that, strictly speaking, the prevalence of good on an infinate or near infinate plane doesn't preclude the possibility of evil - even massive, obvious or really threatening evil.  It's just the tendency of the plane and most of the residents that keeps the plane in its current position along the outer ring.

Using the Norse example again, it's entirely possible that all the gods of Asgaard dwell in the same land within the plane of Ysgaard, each occupying a different aspect of that united pantheon.  Even Norse gods of evil could dwell there in Odin's kingdom - there is more than enough common chaos and good to keep the realm firmly in line with the other upper chaotic planes.

#14

Samloyal23

Dec 26, 2011 19:10:19
Sigil is there for a reason, berks.  A level 1 campaign set in the Cage can be fun, dealing with factions and petitioners instead of powers and fiends to keep it survivable. There can be all manner of scandal, skullduggery, and intrigue in the City of Doors that do not lead to fatal encounters...