I consider planescape to be two campagin settings. One is the planes, the other is Sigil. Sigil is what I love.
That said, I hope Planescape is still all about the factions. I am actually planning on sticking some faction action in my first 4th edition game I will be running starting this week. The planer awesome won't begin until around level 10, but it's the plan.
I have an odd feeling that Planescape and Spelljammer is going to be merged a bit in 4E. I think we will see "jamming" vessels still, but they will be travelling across the Planes to get to other Worlds and I think that they will be using the Astral Sea not Space as a means to get there. This is just a hunch I have.
I really hope the combine the two. I always thought they two kind of canceled each other out when it came as a way to venture to other worlds. I mean why travel on a Spelljamming ship, when you can go through a couple of planar doors and arrive at the same destination?
Than the whole multiverse can easily fit within that astral sea, effectively making most of the planes domains of dieties. Natural worlds could still be surrounded by "space" but suns might not be holes to the planes of radiance (quasiplane of positive energy and fire) anymore, but real superheated gasballs. This means spelljamming might still be needed to go explore "nearby" planetoids and to put down portals on habitable worlds.
And the fun part is, in a astral soup the planar alignments are more easily imagined to adjust, like a waxing and waning of a shoreline, with domain boundaries rising and lowering away from the primes.
I really hope the combine the two. I always thought they two kind of canceled each other out when it came as a way to venture to other worlds. I mean why travel on a Spelljamming ship, when you can go through a couple of planar doors and arrive at the same destination?
Yep. Plus you can swashbuckle through the Planes. Lots of fun exploration to do on the journey to whichever planet you need to get to. ;)
So who is up for stating planar races and monsters?
Arcanoloth Level 19 Elite Artillery
Medium immortal humanoid (yugoloth) XP 4,800
Initiative +9 Senses Perception +18; darkvision
HP 270; Bloodied 135
AC 31; Fortitude 29, Reflex 33, Will 33
Immune acid, poison; Resist 15 variable (1/encounter); Vulnerable 10 cold
Saving Throws +2
Speed 6
Action Points 1
Melee Basic Poisoned Claws (standard; at-will) Poison
+22 vs. AC;1d6 + 7 damage, and ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends).
Ranged Basic Magic Missile (standard; at will) Arcane, Force
Ranged 20; +24 vs Reflex; 3d4 + 7 force damage.
Area Acid Wave (standard; daily) Acid, Arcane
Close blast 5; +24 vs Reflex; 5d6+7 acid damage, and ongoing 10 acid damage (save ends). Miss: Half damage, and ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends).
Area Combust (standard; encounter) Arcane, Fire
Area burst 2 within 20; +24 vs Reflex; 5d6+7 fire damage.
Ranged Mesmeric Hold (standard; encounter) Arcane, Psychic
The arcanoloth targets up to three creatures within 10 squares, or a single creature (and gains a +4 bonus to the attack roll)l +24 vs. Will; 2d6+7 psychic damage, and the target is immobilised until the end of the arcanoloth’s next turn.
Arcane Gate (standard; daily) Arcane, Illusion
As the wizard power arcane gate (Player’s Handbook 163).
Greater Invisibility (standard; daily) Arcane, Illusion
As the wizard power greater invisibility (Player’s Handbook 165).
Cantrips
As the wizard class feature (Player’s Handbook 158).
Spellbook
As the wizard class feature (Player’s Handbook 158). The arcanoloth’s spellbook also holds resistance (as the wizard power, Player’s Handbook 164), stoneskin (as the wizard power, Player’s Handbook 166), and disintegrate (ranged 10; +24 vs. Reflex; 5d10 + 7 damage, and ongoing 10 damage (save ends). Aftereffect: Ongoing 5 damage (save ends). Miss: 3d10 + 7 damage, and ongoing 5 damage (save ends) ).
Alignment Evil Languages Common, Abyssal, Infernal, any three others
Skills Arcana +24, Bluff +20, Insight +18, Intimidate +20
Str 10 (+9) Dex 11 (+9) Wis 19 (+13)
Con 18 (+13) Int 25 (+16) Cha 22 (+15)
Your suggestion is almost like merging Greyhawk and Dragonlance in order to make something "cooler".
Your suggestion is almost like merging Greyhawk and Dragonlance in order to make something "cooler".
It's not like that at all, actually. Planescape and Spelljammer share a similar concept: adventures based on travel between many different worlds. While there are definitely nuances that they don't share (Spelljammer's off-the-wall swashbuckling, Planescape's quirky philosophical bent), there's something to be said for taking the big picture and throwing in what made both of these good. It's not hard to imagine, in the 4e cosmology, sailing the Astral Sea, testing your mettle against aberrant marauders, matching wits with Yugoloth pirates, and out-maneuvering the over-inquisitive Harmonium privateer over a bottle of rum and a logic puzzle.
So to speak.
I say SJ is about the journey, while PS is about the destination. Think about it; the nature of PS travel means nothing can happen while travelling between places. they aren't as similar as you imagine.
I may be wrong. It may work beautifully. But I'm not going to hold my breath.
In the beginning existed a misty realm of timeless
nothingness, crafted by Ao the Hidden One from the
raw elemental bedlam of the Phlogiston. Within this
dim sphere, several worlds drifted upon the Sea of
Night.
Sounds like the SJ universe to me, so what official stuff we have so far doesn't support the contention that the two would be merged.
The concepts for Planescape and SJ seem pretty distinct to me: merging them doesn't seem sensible. Doesn't mean they won't do it, but that's another matter!
but that shouldn't be the main focus of the setting, ''philosophers with clubs'' and intrigue should
Merge them? You might end up with something that is neither if you merge the two, and end up being disliked by fans of both settings.
Your suggestion is almost like merging Greyhawk and Dragonlance in order to make something "cooler".
It is not like either setting has that many fans that it would make a dent in WOTCs bottom line. They slew many cacred cows for 4th and also for the FR setting which is probably their biggest "money making" setting. IMO if they would change things in FR don't look for Dark Sun, Planescape or Spelljammer to be spared. The merging of the two seems logical to me since the Astral Sea was made for traveling on.
I was a fan of Spelljammer when I was in my teens but (30 something now) now that I look back on the setting I cringe. Planescape was much cooler but seemed a place to use when I wanted to send my FR players somewhere different. Different strokes is all.
Different strokes is all.
I hope WotC remembers that, and allows the different settings to REMAIN different.
And perhaps I should clarify: different from EACH OTHER, not necessarily different from HOW THEY USED TO BE....
If different from how they used to be sells more books than you can bet that is the route they will go. They obviously are trying to widen their fanbase and not just focus on diehard fans of older settings.
They can put out new stuff, but then give it a new name. For instance, you can do planar adventuring without getting into the philosophy and the factions, but without those things, why bother calling it Planescape? The name is only going to mean something to those "diehard fans" you mentioned, so if you're not angling for their business, why use the name?
They can put out new stuff, but then give it a new name. For instance, you can do planar adventuring without getting into the philosophy and the factions, but without those things, why bother calling it Planescape? The name is only going to mean something to those "diehard fans" you mentioned, so if you're not angling for their business, why use the name?
But if PS and SJ were combined it would still most likely have the factions and what not, but it would also mean that you could spelljam two different planes while on that mission for the Harmonium or double crossing that berk from the Guvners before hopping the next ship to where ever.
And to the comment on combining GH and DL, why not? :D Just kidding....kinda. I mean, I feel both those settings are pretty much simple fantasy and generic at best. But then again, I'm just that sort of a nerd.
I support what ever gets the Planescape books out the fastest.
They can put out new stuff, but then give it a new name. For instance, you can do planar adventuring without getting into the philosophy and the factions, but without those things, why bother calling it Planescape? The name is only going to mean something to those "diehard fans" you mentioned, so if you're not angling for their business, why use the name?
I bought the Planescape stuff because it gave some nice detail on the Planes and the concept of working alongside great Planar beings was interesting. Plus at the time I liked the idea of connecting all of the TSR worlds (now at 33 I hate the idea). I always felt like Planescape was an accessory that you used to send your PCs somewhere different. I never used or liked the philosophy angle that was the Factions.
Anyway the idea of sailing to new places (worlds and Planes) on the Astral Sea using Spelljamming vessels appeals to me greatly. It is definitely my cup of tea now.
Anyway the idea of sailing to new places (worlds and Planes) on the Astral Sea using Spelljamming vessels appeals to me greatly. It is definitely my cup of tea now.
And have Sigil as a big port city in the middle of it all.
I think it'd be great, but no matter what they've done with them, I can't wait for Manual of the Planes. It'll be a nice christmas gift.
I think it'd be great, but no matter what they've done with them, I can't wait for Manual of the Planes.
I wish I shared your enthusiasm.
Given the flavor text in 4e thus far (or lack thereof), their willingness to have change for the sake of change, and the comments of several members of the 4e design team on various planar topics (see "bullet in the head" of the guardinals), I really don't expect much at all.
On a related note the new Realmslore article in Dragon "Hall of the Frostmaiden" which is about the goddess Auril's domain in the Astral Sea, specifically mentions "astral-jammers". It's only one line and doesn't really describe anything about them but they exist. :D
For those interested it can be found on the 3rd page (listed as page 29) in the paragraph under the first heading (The Nest).
can always supplement missing stuff (City of Brass) with 3PP stuff if WOTC does not cover it.
ok City of Brass is covered, but what else?
liked the Winter Hall article, I'll use it somehow in a different cosmology, still not sure about the merging of Auril and QoAaD
From an FR stand point I'm not sure how I feel about it either, but I'll definitely use Auril as the Queen of Air and Darkness for a future campaign based in the core PoL setting
And since I was bored, let's start with this fellow:
Arcanoloth Level 19 Elite Artillery
Medium immortal humanoid (yugoloth) XP 4,800
Ultroloth, please? :p
Nice name...
I think this would be ab awesome an idea on their part. It makes sense to merge two smaller fringe settings into one setting in order to get advocates of both.
That said, I hope Planescape is still all about the factions. I am actually planning on sticking some faction action in my first 4th edition game I will be running starting this week. The planer awesome won't begin until around level 10, but it's the plan.
I hope if they bring back Planescape they ignore the whole faction war nonsense, because that really drove me nuts at the time.
it's not Spellplague
and in PS isn't a problem to play pre or post FW cause the world doesn't change
always wanted to make a list of those fifty factions
Are the events of "Die Vecna Die!" ignored in 4th Edition? So has the question found an ending why the Lady of Pain didn't threw Vecna out of Sigil? And is Aoskar still a dead god in the 4th Edition or has he never existed?
Are the events of "Die Vecna Die!" ignored in 4th Edition? So has the question found an ending why the Lady of Pain didn't threw Vecna out of Sigil? And is Aoskar still a dead god in the 4th Edition or has he never existed?
Quoted from Draconomicon 2 p.74
History: The Guardians of the Gates formed shortly after the god Vecna managed what no deity had ever done: He entered the City of Doors. Though Vecna was eventually thrown out of Sigil, the steel dragon Virtraxentyr started the Guardians of the Gates to protect the City of Doors.
I think its safe to assume the events from that adventure actually happened in the 4th edition cosmology. However, it has been awhile since I ran that adventure and I do not recall why the lady of pain didn't throw him out herself.
Online that is...