Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ScuroNotte Dec 20, 2014 19:45:47	I am planning to delve out of Fighter class for the first time ever and try a slightly different class, Ranger.  Reading the skills/proficiencies, some of them don't fit the character I am thinking of. I wanted to get some opinions before pitching it to my DM to make certain I am not over/under powering it. Reading some posts about Rangers, there were some I liked and others that didn't fit my character and his origin story. I selected some options that I will hope would be allowed or you can suggest I tweak.   1.  Favored enemy - My character doesn't have this. And he is not a Bounty Hunter type character as I read in some posts. So I was going to change this completely and add             A) 1 Language - Original had opportunity to gain over 3 languages, so I thought adding 1 was not                    over reaching.           B) Knows North - surprised not listed in Natural Explore; maybe implied in not getting lost                  description? If it is implied, maybe add another language, skill, or nothing?           C) Always knows time before dawn/dusk - Living outdoors, my character would know when to make                or break camp. I know this encompasses a Feat description, but reading some of the class descriptions, some already have some form of a feat already, i.e the Rogue can gain Wisdom proficiency as in the Resilient feat. And the Evasion ability for the Rogue and Ranger is like the Shield Mastery feat in which no damage is taken if succeed in Dex saving throw.   2.  For Natural Explorer, it includes all terrains, but only advantage on checks. No doubling skill checks. My character is like a Nomad, not having a place called home and being exposed to various terrains in his travels.
#2 ScuroNotte Dec 20, 2014 20:02:16	3.  Foe Slayer - Since I removed favored enemy, I was thinking one of the following. Please help me choose. Or if you have a better alternative, please let me know.              A)  Add one of Hunter's Archetype features (HE already is a Hunter Archetype just to let you know)            B)  Fighter's Action Surge, usable only once before long or short rest. Reason I selected this is that a Ranger's abilities are a conglomerate of Fighter and Rogue skills. I noticed that some Ranger abilities, especially Rogue-like ones, are attained at later levels compared to the actual Rogue class. So I looked at a low level skill for Barbarians (Type of fighter), Fighters, and Rogues.  Many didn't fit or was my character such as cunning action, danger sense,or uncanny dodge. I read someone added a 3rd attack, but tha was too strong and gained at same level as fighter. If it was a much lower level ability gained for a fighter, maybe. But a Ranger is not a combat specialis as a fighter.     And is it wrong to add 2 more known spells for the Ranger. I know that you can't judge a character on paper. But the logic in me sees the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster get 13 spells while a Ranger gets 11. Based on the PHB description for spell caster multiclass spellcasters pp164, they are considered a Third of a spell caster while a Ranger is considered Half of spell caster when considering spell slots. Based on that, I could not see him having less spells known then those classes. If anything, they should have more based on that, but then I can't see them have more than a true Spellcaster as Warlocks and Sorceres.   Thanks for your input. And yes, already trying to change a character for without playing him but I already have an image, history, and personality for the character and trying to make the class fit. The spell number change is all me though. Human nature.
#3 EzechielDantan Dec 21, 2014 1:16:56	Could you describe the character you are thinking of ? I can't possibly make any suggestion if I can't visualize the character.
#4 steelwulf99 Dec 21, 2014 1:30:44	I think the key to approaching this is to ponder what a 5e Ranger is.   There are 12 classes in the PHB so if we rate a class out of 12 we offer a subjective ranking for a characteristic.   Combat: worse than a Fighter and lags just behind a Paladin with regards armour options - which we won't count since the Ranger probably wants to be sneaky anyway in which case they'll be expecting to use light or medium armour. Without smite a Paladin likely won't keep pace with a Ranger. If the Paladin has smites available then the Ranger falls to third place. This is completely dependent on your campaign, but ultimately the Ranger is at slot #2 or #3 out of 12.   Magic: better than a Barbarian, Fighter or Rogue. Worse than everyone else, Paladins included due to having more restrictions on spell availability (although the Paladin likely has restrictions on usage. Hmm). Anyway, #8 of 12.   Skills: three skills from a list which includes Athletics, Perception, Stealth and Survival. Pure gold and only beaten by Bards and Rogues. #3 of 12. Note that you want all four skills and this class list means you can take Outlander as your background, which will give you Athletics and Survival - one of which you already have as a class skill, so as per chapter 4 in the PHB the skill that matches will get converted to a skill of your choice.   Class utility: by which I mean, what do you add that Mr Fighter who is also trained in Survival can't? Each class has their special trick and in 5e it's not favoured enemy = combat bonuses any more. Well the ranger is the master of tracking, knowing their prey, and knowing their environment. Your DM should be lavishing you with information when you can capitalise on favoured enemy and favoured terrain, which you can then use to harry your prey, provide for your party as the ultimate hunter, or create ambush situations by utilising the terrain unexpectedly.   Story: You don't have to make a bounty-hunter styled ranger who takes humanoids as your favoured enemy. Beasts and undead are both strong and viable choices for a wanderer. A ranger with beasts as their favoured enemy is a master hunter; the ultimate outdoorsman of D&D. Natural Explorer can be used to map your character's journey as a nomad. Skilled in every environment? I have two words for that: Survival and Nature. But being an outrider, scout and huntsman for your wood elf enclave, getting displaced to the hills by an orcish invasion, and finally taking the fight to their giant masters in the mountains - that's what Natural Explorer is about to my mind.   Anyway, to cut a long story short: you knew that people would advise you to sample the dish before you try to season it with salt. There is a good reason for that... give it a go!
#5 Mephi1234 Dec 21, 2014 4:57:12	Why are you trying to branch out from fighter, but then rework everything in the ranger?       Favored enemy just gives you bonuse on information related to your "favorite enemy" - which could actually not be an enemy at all.   Peaceful relations with lizardfolk in your wanderings could result in the bonus language and skill understanding.     Knowing north or time sense is a pretty worthless skill to have.    Don't like natural explorer?   Then drop it in exchange for just going with Expertise for the Survival skill, ala bard and rogue, since that's what it effectively is.   Foe Slayer is generally meaningless, since its usually not attained anytime soon.   But, if it is, just drop mentions of favored enemy, and keep the rest as is.   At that level, you're pretty much fighting your favored enemy exclusively as it is anyways.
#6 EzechielDantan Dec 21, 2014 6:18:51	I don't really see any clashes with the character, bluntly put I'd just suck it up and perhaps adjust your character concept a tiny bit to fit better.   I see ample opportunity to get a favored enemy (just rename the feature if it bothers you), beasts, various humanoids are all easily possibly. Beasts fit your skills as a hunter perfectly, the humanoids you learned to avoid or bargain with sharing their territory.   Natural explorer, you rather want all terrains and a bigger bonus from the start (advantage is a bigger bonus throughout most of your career yes). The bonus is fine as is, I see no reason to change it to advantage. Wanting all terrains might just be a bit greedy and unnecesary, just focus on the terrains you are likely to have spend some years.   Don't write a background as if you already have 6 levels under your belt worth of experiences, keep it short and stick to the highlights.   That is my advice at least.
#7 ScuroNotte Dec 21, 2014 6:28:01	My character begins as a young boy being raised by a single father. The father teaches him to hunt and defend himself while they work on the farm. The boy would rather play then work as a young teen. One day is father wants him to help but he runs off as he wants to play with his friends. When he returns, he finds his father dead from an injury. Rightfully blaming himself, he leaves the farm and town, living in the woods and traveling. Never staying in 1 place long as his nightmares follow.   In his travels, he encounters bandits, orcs, etc. not caring for his own life and taking out his anger, he attacks with reckless abandonment. (I don't want to be a Barbarian). Hence his ability to fight against large numbers. Because of solitude, his senses are attuned to nature and adapts his life to survive alone. The times he has companions, he would sacrifice his own life for them. He prefers close combat because he welcomes death but fights as also fears it.    The solitude of the outside world helps him forget his past life. The change of seasons and terrain are the things that keep his mind going in addition to watching nature ie birth of animals, grazing wildlife   He wears leather armor, longbow, and wields a long sword and a broken long sword as a short sword. Equipment his father had during his youth. His father never wanted to explain further.
#8 ScuroNotte Dec 21, 2014 7:12:47	Favored enemy can't be himself. Well in a way it is right know. But there are no bonuses. Lol. I just can't see preferential enemies for him   For Natural Explorer, doesn't have to be advantage. Could just be able to adapt/survive within all terrains. I'm not looking for expert in all terrains. Just thought he should be able to hunt and survive. I just couldn't understand that, if I didn't select grasslands for example, I couldn't track game. And when tracking, in my favorite terrain I remain alert. But in unknown terrain I am clueless to danger. My character, and ranger in general, has been in many terrains ( or adapts) to be completely clueless doesn't make sense. But I think I can select 3 preferential terrains. I know he hasn't been to the Artic... And not the desert, so those are excluded.   When I picture my character, I imagine his story line and who he is, his development, and where I see him going. (If he lives). That is how I make my character. It's like writing a story and the character takes you on the adventure. I may start his story, but then it takes a life of its own Of course as his life's travels continue, it will transform him further. To who only time will tell. I can't plan everything
(Reply to #6) ScuroNotte	EzechielDantan wrote:
#10 ScuroNotte Dec 21, 2014 9:56:39	It's great having a place of resource where you can get and exchange ideas, and get opinions from those with more experience.    I decided I won't play with favored enemy, but leave natural explorer as is. I'll see how the character plays out. I can always add favored enemy if it seems plausible. Rather start without than with so it won't seem like I'm changing character's skills/abilities midstream. And regarding Foe Slayer, I'll see if I make it to 20th level. By then I'll have a better grip of the character, class, and game.    Thanks for patience.
(Reply to #5) ScuroNotte	Reason branching out is when I was creating the character's backstory, it seemed more like a Ranger as it flowed. Plus wanted to try something different as always played fighter. No interest in pure spellcasters. Tried once as they needed a wizard. Kept using up all my spell slots in each encounter among other stupid things.   Your right about Foe Slayer. If I make it there, then I'll cross that bridge.   Like idea about dropping natural explorer and expertise in survival. Pretty much what my character background is.
(Reply to #6) ScuroNotte	Natural explorer, you rather want all terrains and a bigger bonus from the start (advantage is a bigger bonus throughout most of your career yes). The bonus is fine as is, I see no reason to change it to advantage. Wanting all terrains might just be a bit greedy and unnecesary, just focus on the terrains you are likely to have spend some years.   That is my advice at least. [/quote]   I didn't/don't want bigger bonus. Didn't realise that's what I would be doing. That's why I asked. I thought advantage was weaker than doubling bonus. I am fine with neither bonus nor advantage.   But I do see your point of what my character is like. In his history, he would not have traveled through the desert, artic, or swamp. Not certain of coast. But definitely forest, grasslands, mountains, and Underdark.   Never thought that creating a character concept would've that difficult. Fighter is easy and simple, atleast for me. Both Champion and Battle Master are logically sound and easy. Not interested in Eldritch, seems corny to me (my opinion).
#13 5eDM Dec 21, 2014 12:56:05	ScuroNotte wrote:
#14 CariadocThorne Dec 21, 2014 12:41:21	As has been said already, forget the name "favoured enemy". Beasts makes sense for someone who grew up hunting a lot, he is a good tracker anyway, but particularly good at tracking the animals he hunted in his youth. Alternatively, it could just be the races he is most familiar with. Maybe he grew up around humans mostly, and there was a settlement of elves or halflings nearby, so he learned their language, and a bit about them as a race, and often saw their tracks while hunting, so he recognises them when he sees them on his travels. For example, my ranger/barbarian grew up with humans and orcs the only humanoid races he saw, so he knows them best. He can track anything, but those two races particularly easily.
(Reply to #13) ScuroNotte	Thought I would offer a couple suggestions, having had several discussions regarding players creating a ranger character.