Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Concito Mar 06, 2015 14:39:55	I have a question about my assassin. The question is about "Assassinate". It say "any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit". Now... the question is...  "a surprised creature" is just about the round of surprise or I can go in stealth, let my mates engage in battle and then attack and score a critical? For my DM I must go alone, scouting the area and attack before anyone else. If I can score the critical in some other ways, can you give me some example? Let me know if someone can answer :D
#2 feartheminotaur Mar 06, 2015 16:02:33	Once comabt begins, you can't gain "surprise" (as a mechnic) since your opponents are aware of you (since you're like, stabbing and shooting magic at them and what not).   Short Answer: No Long Answer:  "The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t  notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.  If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren’t." - PHB 173
#3 BRJN Mar 06, 2015 17:36:01	If you do not get a Surprise Round, you should still be able to 'get the drop on' (and therefore get to use your Assassinate features) anybody who has not gone yet when your turn comes up in Round One.  In other words, do everything you can to boost your Initiative mod, so you go first. Check PH for all the relevant definitions, then talk to your DM about how to implement what you have found.   Hopefully your DM will not 'nerf' Assassin by placing the-least-likely-to-happen interpretations on it.  He is going to have to get used to the idea that some of his NPCs will be one-shotted without recourse, due to you.  It's fair that his BBEG masterminds will get paranoid about you, and maybe try to assassinate you first.  But if your group just got into a new town and your reputation is unknown, you should be able to do what you do best to Team Monster.
#4 supreme_slayer Mar 06, 2015 17:53:37	Not sure, BRJN, if you're trying to say that you should still auto crit or not if you don't get a surprise round, because if so, I whole heartedly disagree. There is a reason that they differentiate between "surprise" and "hasn't taken a turn in combat yet", and as far as "get the drop on" goes, it's just flavor text and not part of the mechanics of the ability.   If what you're saying is that the DM should not be entirely too stingy with surprise rounds and prevent the party from getting them, then I agree. The DM should let the players get surprise rounds just like monsters can get. You should indeed as well get advantage on enemies when you attack before they act in combat. Your DM might also still allow for you to come out of hiding during the start of combat and still have it count as a surprise round for you (I would), but that would be for the DM to decide.
#5 Kayal Mar 07, 2015 9:20:11	I read it quite literally. "You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn yet. In addition, any hit you score againts a creature that is surprised is a critical hit." That is, if a creature hasn't acted, yet, then you get advantage on the attack roll (and therefore, you can also add sneak attack damage), whether it was surprised or not  ... but, you only count every hit as a critical hit if the creature is actually surprised (i.e. creatures who can't move, act, or react until after their first turn of combat). Once their turn rolls around, neither of those conditions still apply.   Note that surprise doesn't say you skip your turn. You take your turn. You just can't move, can't use an action, and can't take reactions, until the turn is over.   I think it's fair to say that you have surprise, however, if your party gets the jump on someone. That is, if the other side is unware of your side when combat begins, then they are surprised.   On the other hand, if the enemy is not surprised, because they're already fighting your allies while you stealthily move into position, they do not become surprised just because they weren't aware of you. They either noticed there was a threat present or they did not. So, you would not count every hit as a critical hit in this instance. (You would, however, have advantage on the attack roll; not because you're an assassin, but because everyone has advantage on attack rolls against foes who can't see them).
#6 BRJN Mar 07, 2015 17:43:45	I'm away from books, but my recollection is that a character can suffer from the Surprised condition during the early part of Round One, before his first Turn comes up, if he was Surprised during a Surprise Round.  When his turn comes up on Round One, he ceases to be Surprised and acts normally.   Potentially an Assassin could get two Assassination Attacks: one during the Surprise Round, and one during Round One IF he attacks somebody whose turn has not yet come up.   It is possible I remember this wrong (and in a manner very favorable to the assassin), so feel free to quote PH text to refute me.
#7 Yunru Mar 07, 2015 18:28:18	Technically a Surprised foe never stops being surprised, merely unaffected by the Surprised condition.
#8 Kayal Mar 07, 2015 18:31:46	BRJN wrote:
#9 Kayal Mar 07, 2015 18:33:06	Yunru wrote:
#10 Noon Mar 08, 2015 22:54:16	Concito wrote:
#11 Noon Mar 08, 2015 22:56:58	Yunru wrote:
#12 RealSeolfor Mar 09, 2015 1:24:05	This particular question is being asked concurrently in four different threads, all by Assasins, since theyre the ONLY subclass whose core feature is affected by it.   Thread 1 "Surprise Timing": http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4150136 Thread 2 "Assasins in Combat..": http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4191781 Thread 3 "Dealing Death, Assasin's Handbook ..": http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4149876 Thread 4: "Assasinate": http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4191956 (this thread)   Not one single Assasin is liking the answer to their query, but see below for what the PHB rules say, as well as the clarification by Mearls:   Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #11) Yunru	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #12) Yunru	RealSeolfor wrote:
#15 Noctaem Mar 09, 2015 9:15:00	To address the issue, Mearls has himself admitted that he is not to be considered a rules source and that all rules questions should be directed to Jeremy Crawford.  So anything Mearls answers regarding rule questions should be interpreted as how he would rule as his table and not what the rules text actually says or doesn't say.   Either way though this is semantics.  The surprised entry of the PHB reads that (paraphrasing) a surprised creature does not get to act until the end of it's first turn, at which point it can take a reaction as normal.  So after it completes its turn it is no longer under the effects of being "surprised" since the effects specifically end after the creature's first turn.  That's all that matters.  Assassins get to crit on surprised creatures, after its first turn it's no longer surprised and so doesn't match the assassin crit requirement.       Edited by Orc_Barrons: Inappropriate Content violates the Code of Conduct: http://company.wizards.com/conduct'
(Reply to #7) FrogReaver	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #16) Coredump00	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #17) FrogReaver	Coredump00 wrote:
#19 Noon Mar 10, 2015 1:51:49	Yunru wrote:
#20 Orc_Barrons Mar 10, 2015 8:06:03	I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.