| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1ppaladin123Aug 26, 2015 16:36:33 | I'd like to try/have permission to use the favored soul sorcerer variant that WotC introduced in an Unearthed Arcana article a few months ago. Favored souls get:
proficiency with simple weapons, shields, and medium armor a second attack at level 5 the spells (but not the features) of a divine domain
I was hoping to make a melee gish out it but there are problems:
no martial weapon proficiency, no heavy armor, and a d6 hit dice.
So the melee side seems a bit weak.
Any advice on this assuming mlulticlass and feats are available and we start at level 5? |
| #2StrillAug 26, 2015 16:51:15 | Favored Soul's melee attacks, sans a magic weapon, end up coming out close to the damage of a cantrip. I strongly suspect that this is intentional.
Regardless, if you want stronger melee attacks, take one level of Fighter for Dueling style and martial weapon proficiency. Alternatively, take one level of Tempest/War cleric for Martial weapon proficiency and no delay in your spell slot progression.
For feats, your best options are Polearm Master, Greatweapon Master, and Shield Master. |
| #3TenaciousJAug 27, 2015 10:28:25 | You want to cover for your poor HP with your spell selection. The Shield spell is a must. Mirror Image is your friend, and Blur is actually decent when coupled with high AC. Don't be afraid to hit and run using Misty Step or the Mobile feat. |
| #4Danny_MontannyAug 27, 2015 10:42:46 | Go Paladin 2 before you go Favored Soul. Pick War Domain. Smash. |
| #5ppaladin123Aug 27, 2015 16:38:58 |
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| (Reply to #5)Danny_Montanny |
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| #7ppaladin123Aug 27, 2015 16:57:07 |
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| (Reply to #5)gignere |
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| #9Jared711Aug 27, 2015 17:07:02 |
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| (Reply to #9)Napolean_Warlord | How do you think about FS vs. light or war cleric?
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| #11YunruAug 27, 2015 21:02:06 | The biggest problem with melee for the Favoured Soul is "why not ranged?" A Favoured Soul 6 can use Haste on themselves 6 times a day, for three attacks a turn, excluding the initial casting. |
| (Reply to #10)Jared711 |
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| #13TheBigHouseAug 28, 2015 14:25:30 |
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| (Reply to #13)Jared711 |
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| (Reply to #14)TheBigHouse |
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| #16jaappletonAug 31, 2015 10:11:04 | Aren't Sorcerers already proficient in Con saves? Also, avoid being in melee. Your hit die is a d6, don't put yourself in a situation where you'll burn your spell slots healing yourself or casting Shield constantly. |
| (Reply to #16)TheBigHouse |
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| (Reply to #17)Jared711 |
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| #19jaappletonAug 31, 2015 10:38:27 | I see now. I suggest Fighter, then. Action Surge is beastly with Metamagic. |
| #20jaappletonAug 31, 2015 10:46:37 | And don't fuss too much about starting as a Fighter, or Paladin, for a level or two. Your second attack won't come until a level or two later, but your damage will remain competitive because of Spiritual Weapon.staying at range with a bow means that with Archery Style, you get a bonus to your attack rolls. So having your Dex be slightly behind Charisma won't impact you much. |
| #21TheBigHouseAug 31, 2015 11:00:14 |
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| #22ppaladin123Aug 31, 2015 11:22:25 |
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| (Reply to #21)Jared711 |
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| #24ppaladin123Aug 31, 2015 11:36:17 | It is such a pain to get a good melee gish buiild going...takes a long time for it to realy come into its own. Paladin 6 before even getting to sorcerer......or same if you go fighter/wizard. Warlock can sort of get there around level 6 I suppose but spell list is rather lacking (no haste!).
Does make me wish they would just create a 1/2 arcane caster/warrior class that is something like the average of eldritch knight (1/3 caster) and the warlock (1/3 warrior). |
| #25TheBigHouseAug 31, 2015 12:12:20 |
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| (Reply to #23)Danny_Montanny |
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| #27ppaladin123Aug 31, 2015 12:55:48 |
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| (Reply to #27)TheBigHouse |
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| #29ppaladin123Aug 31, 2015 15:46:26 |
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| #30JackOfAllTiradesAug 31, 2015 16:33:48 | Alternately, go DEX instead of STR, and take Weapon Master instead of Heavy Armor feat. You'll get +1 DEX, about the same AC (if you use a shield), better Initiative, better Dex Saves, and proficiency with four Martial Finesse Weapons. (Basically, all the Finesse weapons.) |
| #31bidAug 31, 2015 21:31:49 | Might as well dip a level, much cheaper than that feat. |
| #32JackOfAllTiradesSep 01, 2015 0:08:06 |
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| #33Coyote81mSep 01, 2015 6:28:46 | What about taking a Dex based fighter for 3 levels to get marital proficiencies, action surge, and archery fighting style, then take battle master for some nice combat maneuvers. |
| (Reply to #32)bid |
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| #35TheBigHouseSep 01, 2015 8:16:06 |
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| #36JackOfAllTiradesSep 01, 2015 20:42:53 |
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| (Reply to #36)bid |
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| (Reply to #37)Danny_Montanny |
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| #39ppaladin123Sep 02, 2015 9:06:28 | I am going to start at level 5 so now I am thinking through my options:
Paladin 5 and then paladin 1/favored soul/storm sorcerer 14
+ awesome defenses +smite and bless +flexable spell slots for more smites
-very few spell slots for a while/few spells known -no level 3 spells until level 11
Fighter 5 (eldritch knight) then wizard 5/fighter6/wizard4
+action surge +con save right off the bat +wizard spell list is better/can know more spells
-very few spell slots for a while -no quicken (though action surge helps!) -no level 3 spells until level 10
Favored Soul 5 then favored soul 1/paladin2/favored soul 12
+eventually get level 9 spells +con save right off the bat
-crummy HP -no 2nd attack until 6th level -no martial weapons until level 7 -no fighting style until level 8 -medium armor....will need to spend a feat to get heavy armor.
Not really sure what to do....may I'll see if my DM will let me play the "Oath of the Arcane" paladin that someone (Melllored) on the board made a while back. |
| #40Danny_MontannySep 02, 2015 10:12:13 | If you're going Paladin 6, Favored Soul is almost pointless. What'll you get? A few extra spells known (though some ones you wouldn't be able to cast otherwise) and wings at level 20? Storm has some ok flavor, but does it fit your concept?
If you're gonna spend a feat to get heavy armor with the concept you want, bad ass gish in heavy armor, then why not just start Paladin and spend a feat to get Resiliant: Con? You'll also pick up 4 more hit points to boot.
Building a character like this is a balance act, as you well know from your proposed options. It's all about finding what ideas are must haves asap and things that would be ok to wait a bit for. Let's build that list going off of what's been mentioned in the thread:
These seem to be the main points that would get you what you want. Now let's look at the earliest you can get those things with your builds. Most of your builds will have all of those things at level 11, right? Some might need a feat. The EK/Wizard won't have Metamagic.
Here's my suggestion (hint: it's the one I already gave). A Half-Elf Paladin 2/Favored Soul 3 to start will really give you the base you want. In a mere 3 levels you will have EVERYTHING on your list. You'll get a bad ass character with tons of flavor that will continue to grow. Your first level up will see you get Resiliant: Con (assuming not Human) and two 3rd-level spell slots. The next you get Haste and now you have the Con and Metamagic to use it the way you want. Finally, 8th will get you that Extra Attack and a 4th-level spell slot (which a straight up Paladin doesn't get until level 13!). Sure, its a while to wait, but you got plenty of tricks up your sleeve to pass the time. |
| (Reply to #40)jaappleton |
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| (Reply to #41)Danny_Montanny |
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| #43jaappletonSep 02, 2015 10:57:54 | Oh I know.I just wanted him to know he wouldn't be far behind by pushing his 2nd attack off according to your build. Your suggested build makes the most sense to me, for what he is trying to accomplish. |
| (Reply to #43)Danny_Montanny |
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| #45TheBigHouseSep 02, 2015 13:32:49 |
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| #46ImOvarwaSep 03, 2015 2:10:04 | Hi,
Starting at level 5? Favored Soul Melee Gish? I do love paladins, but not so much with FS since there is so much overlap. I don't like warlocks much on their own, but Tome Warlock 3 works great as duct tape for bodging together DIY projects.
If you don't mind using a staff, I like FS 2/ Tome Warlock 3. Shillelagh for one of your free cantrips. Agonizing Blast and Book of Ancient Secrets for invocations. Str = 8; Dex = 14; Cha = 16; Con = 16. Half-elf and Variant Human (warcaster) are the likely suspects. Half-elf frees up points for a good Wisdom score (and saving throw!) but using a shield for +2 AC is also nice.
Dumping Str and not relying on Dex as an attack stat allows a high Con to alleviate squishiness, so Shillelagh is key. Medium armor and 14 Dex is perfect. At level 5, you can either do 1 melee attack or 2 ranged attacks with an action, adding Cha to attack and damage.
Probably FS the rest of the way. Warlock 4 is tempting (possibly correctly if you don't care about reaching 9th level spells) for a quick ASI, but once tempted by the dark side, Warlock 5 beckons with another invocation and spell level... The first 3 ASIs are probably +4 Cha to reach Cha 20 and Warcaster for convenient staff+shield or staff+something else.
What is lost compared to a straight FS? The second melee attack is 4 levels away, maybe 5 (instead of 1). 3rd level sorcerer spells are 3 levels away: Fireball will never be exciting for you (instead of possibly opening your first major combat of the game at level 5 with a quickened fireball.) Metamagic is 1 level away rather than something you start with.
What do you get for this sacrifice? Two good ranged attacks one level before a straight FS would have two good melee attacks; solid AC and HP; access to a few gishy warlock spells; 2 ritual spells (maybe a familiar?) and access to all level 1 and level 2 rituals; you don't care that FS doesn't give you any martial weapons. Ranged attacks, melee attacks, rituals, 2 extra cantrips, something for every situation.
Anyway,
Ken
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