Hello guy's i am currently in a group with a difficult player and could use some advice as i am at the point where i wanna leave a group i enjoy other than when he gets up to his shanaigans.
Firstly little bit about his character
He is a fighter - Chaotic Neutral - 30 years old - Comes from family of blacksmiths and carpiters - born and rised in waterdeep.
He then became a soilder and then a siege endgineer and lastly he says his character worked in the bard collage. (at level 1) plays his character like a lawfull good.
He is always pulling lore out of fresh air without check and his excuess is because i am from waterdeep i would have heard tales about this growing up or at the bard collage....
Next is my first character
Cleric - Neutral Good - 25 years old - follower of lathander - hermit background - Flaw was enjoying the delights of the world little too much.
so we did a job together as a group went back to town and to a inn so i had a drink and then my character hooked up someone. he then started saying how my god would not allow me to do that and basicly how i would be smited, then kept refering to my character as a letch.
Later on and lots of more attacks against my cleric we end up facing a Young White Dragon. our groups other fighter kills the dragon and i am on floor with 2 death save fails and he is the only person who could save me. he then attacks the dead dragon and gives the excuss oh well i was terrified of dragons.
Character two - Warlock - Fiend Pact Gargauth - the contract i made with him stops me from saying i am pact with him and basicly i will kill cultists of asmodeus.
So meet the group and explain how my character knew the cleric and that i could help them and shown off some presdigitation magic and said i was an arcana castor. (Not warlock)
So we went to this graveyard for the story and it filled with a fog so you could not see more than 5 feet infront of you the fighter was fighting a zombie with one beind him. i cast Eldritch blast and he say oh so your a warlock then... No check's so i basicly say how could you know that without check line of sight ect. oh its because i'm from waterdeep and ive seem warlocks there before. DM ruled in his favor to stop arguement. After the fight He say so what pact are you because if your a fiend I'm gunna kill you. I reply with Feypact to a feylord he rolls insight vs my deception and fails. should be end of it but no few more times my pact comes into play he rolls insight.
Now our group is currently trapped in skullport and we just saved a chruch from cultists but my character took one prisoner for questioning after they had finished and i confirmed it i throw an attack at the cultist, DM Magic - Wall of force (fine). He then draws his sword at me and the chruch leader asks what i was doing i explain that my pact means i much destory any followers of asmodeus.
So then the fighter say oh well i can take him back to waterdeep for trail blah blah blah and promises to get him there and in character i am like yeah i just told you i will kill him that i am bound to do so or my patron could show up and bad stuff could happen. (he basicly wanted a reason to try kill my character) Anyway we went after a group of cultists with this one tied up being carried all the way to an area full of molten magma.
My familar finds a group of cultists so we plan to get the drop on them, the fighter goes back to a different room knocks out the cultist and puts him out of reach of the group. as we go to deal with the group of cultists i send my familar to go finish off the cultist. after the fight he goes up there brings the cultist back and is like. Oh he is dead i know you did it you used your familar to do it. even tho my familar is a fairy dragon and can go invisible and we was 3 rooms away. so call him on meta gaming and then i call him on the fact he did not even do a check to see if he was dead or how he died. checks followed all fails so he asks the ranger to see how he died fails too.
But every chance he gets he goes out of his way to attack my character. One of my real life friends agree as do some others but our dm seems happy just letting him get away with it.
There is other stuff too but can't be assed spending 2-3 hours listing it all.
What i will say is we had a game 2-3 weeks ago that he was late well he was not there it was the best session i played and my friend said the same.
Anyway some input on it would be nice.
Honestly?
Bypass him completely, and talk to the DM. As long as the DM keeps nodding and letting him get away with his dickish behavior, this is going to continue. If you played any class at all, or race, he's going to go out of his way to be an ass.
Talk to the DM. If the DM does nothing, find a new group. That's your best option. It sucks, but if this guy has been a jerk all his life, he's going to continue to be one as long as he's allowed to be.
Don't try to solve out of character problems in character. That's what he is doing. He can't attack you outside the game so he's using his character in the game to attack you, make threats, etc.. Basically he's trying to control you through your character. TALK TO YOUR DM. Explain to him what is going and how it's making you feel. Explain to him that this person has killed your character before and is now trying to kill your character again. Explain to him that he's trying to find any reason to kill your character. Ask that he do something about it. Here's what I would do and what I would suggest to the DM:
1. Stop any further killing between players unless BOTH PLAYERS are ok with it. Basically, if one player says he wants to kill another player, I ask the victim if he's ok with it. If the answer is NO then that's it. It ends there. No one is killing each other. That's what the monsters are for. If you use roleplay as an excuse to let an ally die, like when he continued to attack the dead dragon instead of helping you NOT DIE (which means he killed you by using RP as an excuse) I would make you become stabilized instead and then have a serious conversation with that player about teamwork, social contracts and wheaton's law within the group he's playing in. What he's doing is a form of bullying and harassment. By killing your character and trying to control everything you're doing and how you do it, that's exactly what he's doing. Your DM should be stepping in by now to stop that crap from happening.
2. If the DM isn't open to the first point and this sort of thing happens again, pause the game immediately and talk about it in the open. Explain to everyone in the group that this is not acceptable behavior in a group environment. you're not playing this game to have someone bully and try to control you through your character. You're not there to listen to someone tell you how your character would react, do things or to watch another player let your character die or kill them directly. This is a game and it's meant to be fun. Having someone do that in the group IS NOT FUN. Mention that you've talked with people in the group about these problems and that you're not the only one who is having problems with what's happening. Demand that something be done.
3. If nothing is done, you and your friends should leave the group and find another one to play in. DM's who allow this sort of behavior should not be DM's. It's that simple. You are not there to allow or reinforce negative behavior at the table and people who act this way should not be tolerated. They should be given a chance or two to make changes and rectify the behavior but if they can't help themselves they should be removed from the group so that a positive and fun environment can exist for EVERYONE in the group. Not just the asshole who is killing the characters of other players while the DM sits there with his finger up his nose.
Don't put up with this kind of abuse in a group environment.
Noctaem wrote:
I'm not convinced he would make a good DM simply because he seems to derive pleasure from killing characters and telling other people he plays with what they should do / how they should do it / that their character wouldn't do something, which means that as a DM he might become a tyrant and a douche but it could be worth trying as a solution if it gives him perspective.
Yeah...i'm with the above posters. You should have a sit down with the dm and explain your issues. If his response is less than satisfactory you should leave. I don't think that is petty at all given his reinforcement of blatant metagaming and abuse. IMO this is intolerable behavior for a DM, even in a campaign where pvp is allowed, the fighter's is metagaming in order to buily your character for seemingly no reason. Its not even a character conflict, its just bullying.
Mazoshi wrote:
His meta gaming hardly matters here - Mazoshi, you're just not interested in inter party conflict, whether the person metagames or not.
Does he do this stuff with any other players?
My advice "Look, you only seem to do this stuff with me, not the other players. Either do it with everyone or F' off!"
His play could be viable if he did it with all other players, but he seems to have gone the bully route. It's like dodgeball is legit, but just throwing a ball at one person over and over who doesn't want to play - that's bullying.
And your GM is enabling him.
If he actually starts doing it with all other PC's, then he'll find he actually has to roleplay someone backing off.
Keep in mind the other players did nothing (in character or otherwise) when you died the first time, nor did they do anything (in character or otherwise) when he threatened your second PC.
So the other players are part of the problem as well.
All in all, while it might be nice if they all shape up, they aren't showing up as a particularly good group currently - so leaving them isn't that big a deal.
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
As a DM I would immediately intervene. I would remind the players that they are a group of heroes that are supposed to work together towards a common goal. I don't want any players trying to find excuses to kill each other, imprison each other, rob each other, or otherwise disrupt the group. I want every player to agree on that, and then we can continue. Your DM should do the same, so talk to him.
Thanks for all the input and i think i am going to do as noctoem suggested and talk to the dm about it as i have talked to my friend and he basicly agrees with what you all have said and that it is him just bullying.
Also his character does not do this with anyone else in the group just me so i do just think that he does not like me. probly because the first 4-7 games he pointed out if we did something wrong so i re-read the books and then when he did something wrong i pointed it out to him. witch he then followed it up with your not the dm.... its like i am just pointing out you did something you cant currently do or you misread an ability but to throw whos the dm at me after all the stuff he pointed out to us is just petty.
It's like i have a different game on sundays and just got a pair of winged boots and my dm pointed out that you can fly up to 4 hours but you can only activate them up to several times a day as that is what the discription says. so i wispered the fighter this and he basicly brings it stright up in the game and posts the discription and is like your wrong and this is what the actual discription says. so i highlighting the part that i pointed out to him.
Winged Boots - Uncommon (Require attunement)
While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed
equal to your walking speed. You can use the boots to
fly for up to 4 hours, all at once or in several shorter
flights, each one using a minimum of 1 minute from the
duration. If you are flying when the duration expires, you
descend at a rate of 30 feet per round until you land.
The boots regain 2 hours of flying capability for evyry
12 hours they aren't in use.
But the dm basicly said i am gunna rule it in his favor as he mostly seems to do to stop the fighting. but i tryed to be as nice about it as i could. via a wisper so as not to interupt the game and he brings it into the game.
Just spoken to a friend he pointed out that Several is not a number even although it does imply seven from several so guess i missunderstood. guess the boots them self are just very op when compaired to the rare version of wings.
Our dm does not like the fighting but he is still new and this is the first game he has run so i don't think he knows that he should be sorting out the fact the fighter has a chip on his shoulder with me.
Item description from DMG is quite clear, you can use the boots on 1/min increments. Basically this mean that you could use the boots the following number of times:
[(1/min increment) * 60 (minutes in an hour) ]* 4 (number of hours of total duration of boots) = 240 times
Now, if your DM or this fighter rule any different, it's a house rule. The several times part is just fluff description in my opinion. That's why there is not a limit on times, but rather a limit on minutes, which make the description pretty straightforward.
People usually forget that Magic items, like spells have a fluff description and the actual game mechanic.
Yeah, you should quit playing with this douchebag. If you quit, try and get your buddies to go with you. That should get the message across loud and clear.
Remember, no gaming >>> bad gaming. You're doing this to have fun. If you're not having fun, just go do something else.
i have been speaking with the two other players today and they agree that he has a chip on his shoulder with me and is going after my character. but as soon as my DM logs onto skype i plan to talk to him about it and if nowt is done. i guess the group is gunna end up ending due to one guy and him trying his best to screw over my character.
anyway i re-read the boots and was like oh wait it does not say seven and am gunna bring this up with the other dm althougth even if he rules it that way i am fine with it as there very op if you can just use them 240 in a day as its not like you would need to use them unless they are needed for somthing that can fly or trap. so they would basicly last forever
Mazoshi wrote:
Ok, original poster. Here's the skinny on what you can do from here:
1. Talk to the DM. Don't put everything on him, like this is entirely the DMs fault. I mean, he enabled the other guy a bit by not stepping in before now. That's true. But it's not entirely the DMs fault that the player is a jackass. So talk with the DM, and let him know: Listen, things with Jerkface aren't cool. I don't want to play anymore if he's going to be a jerk all the time to me. That's not fun. And gauge the DMs response and reaction. Most people avoid conflict simply because it's easier. It could be your DM thinks that guy sucks, too.
2. If things go south with both that player and your DM, then it doesn't mean you have to stop playing. You can find another game via Roll20, or Fantasy Grounds, or Google+, etc. So don't feel trapped. Never, ever feel trapped in this scenario.
Well i have spoken to the DM he agrees with me that it is not cool and said he would just kick him as he would prefer me and my friend stayed over him anyway as we do more roleplay. i basicly said give him one more chance if he refuses to change then get rid as i don't like being the cause of someone leaving yeah i know he deserve to be kicked but i don't wanna have it happen without giving him the chance to change.
Anyway thanks for all the advice it was a great help with this situation.
Make up some secret things you do just between you and the DM, give him little notes during sessions.
They can just be silly little things, but it will drive the other player crazy not getting to know what is written.
Stuff like:
You quietly sneak out of the inn to go feed some of the poor of the city, but if you feel like you are being followed you stop and return.
You hang around the outskirts of the town casually tossing rocks at tree branches as you smoke some rolled tobacco leaf.
Describe the downtime activity you engage in with the trade tools you are proficient in using the downtime rules in the PHB. Jewel smithing or painting portraits for local nobles can be a good source of side income. When you guys are leaving town say "ok so I'll just add the 15 extra gold to my character sheet"
"W-why are you doing that? What did you doooo?"
"Don't worry about it."
Really, take some levels of bard for expertise in Stealth and Deception. Nothing will annoy a busybody more than the DM telling him "you lost track of him," or "You believe his lies."
Save all your uses of Bardic inspiration for interactions with this character!
Giving your problem player the boot sounds like the best possible solution.
But it seems wasteful to do that until after you've figured out how you're going to kill off his character and take his stuff.
Vulf wrote:
Vulf wrote:
Netherholde wrote:
Netherholde wrote:
Mazoshi wrote:
*sigh*
With the OP saying he sent a whisper to the DM, sounds like a possible VTT game. If that's the case, just find another game, doesn't sound like the current game is worth the hassle and finding a new VTT game (with a potential better DM and group) is more likely.
"Those monsters attacked us - or might at some point - so lets go murder them all and take their stuff, which is right, because they started it. Or would have."
Which part of that example is an innacurate description of many D&D games?
Taking out your frustrations on a player in game, crosses the line into unacceptable table manners. If you can't work out your differences with a particular player in a mature way, then just stop playing with that player. Normally the DM should step in, and put an end to this sort of disruptive behavior. But if the DM refuses to take action, you should really bring it up to the whole group. In fact, the moment the disruptive player pulls another of his stunts, just address the behavior immediately, and talk it out with the group in public. Explain how the player's disruptive and immature behavior is sucking the fun out of the game for you, and demand a solution, or you'll simply stop playing. It is up to the rest of the group then, who they want to to continue playing with (you or the other player).
At some point the backdoor politics no longer work, and a direct confrontation of the problem is the only way forward. Stay polite, refrain from turning it into a shouting match, and be the mature one. And make sure you do not only address the problem with the disruptive player, but also the DM's inability to put a stop to it. Because the DM is at fault here as well, for allowing this behavior to begin with. Explain that a DM is more than just a storyteller and a judge. He also has to manage the table, and make sure everyone is having fun. If someone is being disruptive, it is the DM's responsibility to step in.
Imaculata wrote:
I fully agree with dealing with this problem outside the context of the game and leaving the game if it cannot be resolved.
I do take issue with the notion that the DM has any particular authority over a social problem though. The DM has authority over what happens in the game, so he or she can narrate the result of attacks or hindrances on player characters by other player character as failing. However, when it comes to problems between people, the DM has no more authority than anyone else. There's often this bleeding over of game authority and social authority in groups that I just don't agree with.
iserith wrote:
Imaculata wrote:
Netherholde wrote:
Basically the guy didn't stand up for himself for 2 campaigns worth of game then finally the glass overflowed and he decided to kill the other player's character in game instead of actually standing up for himself. But frankly, the more he posts the more I'm convinced there's more to this. 2 campaigns worth of harassment in game and yet he says:
"And if you think in game stopping to address the issue at the moment is the way to go, then I would say it most likely would only have the result of he said - she said"
But wait, the party is aware of it right?
"Outside of game, the party is fully aware of this"
So how can it be he said - she said when the entire group is aware of this happening constantly and has been physically present to witness the behavior.. ?
But he gives the player who has been bullying / harassing him multiple rides home after the game?
And again, you don't seem to understand that we're telling that you should have resolved this problem OUTSIDE THE GAME, meaning that you don't create conflict within the party / characters. You solve the problem by talking to people. People have problems, not characters. Anyway this story doesn't make any sense frankly and and just goes to show what NOT to do to resolve these problems.
Don't let a problem like this fester for over 2 campaigns worth of play.
If someone is being disruptive and decides to harass or bully another player, speak up. Don't turn a blind eye to it.
Don't take out your frustrations against another player in-character.
etc..
At some point you should really stop arguing on the internet Noctaem. I know it's tempting 
For reference: https://xkcd.com/386/
svendj wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Netherholde wrote:
Eh, could be worse - could be calling people cowards from the safety of anonymity.
Noon wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Netherholde wrote:
Netherholde wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Bad blood?? You're being bullied and harassed for over 2 campaigns and you don't stand up for yourself because you're afraid of bad blood? lmao what????
And if it's something so minor why did you kill his character then?? lol makes less and less sense!
I think you should go all meta-game on the guy: fight him IRL.
Post a video, please.
Noctaem wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
Noon wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Different people have different opinions about what being an adult is I suppose.
Removed quite a bit of baiting and harrassment, which is against the Code of Conduct.
http://company.wizards.com/policies/web/conduct
Let's keep it civil.
Yunru wrote:
Keep things simple and ignore the moral police here.
A. What happens in game is resolved in game. Someone keeps attacking you then the DM should confirm the character's alignment and inform the player that an alignment change may be required. The DM should then confirm the opinions of the witnesses and determine if the acts also could be considered criminal. If it happened in game the consequences occur in game.This MUST occur because it teaches a bad role player the consequences of their actions in the world presented to them.
B. Outside of the game discuss the situation with the DM and perhaps the players too to confirm if this is the direction of role play properly enforced by actions that the game should take. Determine if the player's actions are inspired by character background or out of game foolery. If the actions are justified through character background (he/she is a homicidal psychopath) then decided if the character should be booted from the party as any intelligent party would. If it's bad role playing then the player should be informed of why in game consequences occurred and why removal from the game session could be considered.
End result is a player should not be left hanging in game by poor DM'ing and should not be left hanging amongst friends who should be gaming for the same reason everyone is. A player killing another player is justified if the game allows it and is handled expertly by the DM and mature players. I have played in several games in different RPGs where a player died to another player and was handled brilliantly by the DM and reinforced through story. It can lead to epic conclusions in very realistic campaigns with mature and experienced players. Obviously some here can't emotionally handle this concept and should stick to their style of gaming which enforces the importance of establishing framework of the game so everyone is on the same page.
The ONLY time I have seen problems it has always stemmed from one player causing the issue because their play style fails to align with the campaign or the party in general. Once the core problem is identified a DM can discuss if the resolution can be handled in game or player management must be considered. It is a privilage to play in a group ... not a right.