| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1Kentor_Slowhand_02Oct 20, 2014 9:40:54 | Which would you choose, and why? |
| #2melloredOct 20, 2014 9:51:57 | If you have little combat, lore. They are skill masters.
Otherwise Valor because +3 AC (+5 with shields), and pot shots with longbows (or shield +handbows post 14).
Lore multiclasses better though, since you could end up with redundant armor proficency.
That said, they are reasonably close. |
| #3LellindilOct 21, 2014 9:56:18 | I think I lean more towards Lore frankly. I think a reactive debuff to an enemy (particularly if it's targeting multiple allies) is more potent than using bonus actions for a small buff to allies. Also I think that More Arcane Secrets or whatever it's called will continue to get more powerful as more content gets released and its powerful now. Cherry picking fun, potent or lower level versions of spells feels amazing. Right now I think my 2 fav spells to cherry pick are probably find familiar and find steed. Just seems like fun, even if it's very utility. Side note is owl familiar is amazing for the help action alone. |
| #4melloredOct 21, 2014 10:13:23 |
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| #5iserithOct 21, 2014 10:41:40 | My bard decided to go to a technical school which costs less per semester and didn't require him to take on a huge bard college loans. |
| #6TherosOct 21, 2014 10:46:05 | But do adventuring parties in other states recognize your qualifications? |
| #7iserithOct 21, 2014 10:47:13 |
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| #8MistwellOct 21, 2014 10:51:38 |
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| #9DivljakOct 21, 2014 13:53:21 | lore all the way, i made a mistake taking valor, valor is gimp.
Only thing you get from valor is extra attack, and shield and its meh with high dex, you will negate benifit of medium armors, and you allready have proficiency with best martial wepon you need.
Lore gives you more skills, cutting words(which is way way batter then combat inspiration), it gives you magical secrets at level 6 instead of extra attack, for which you can take lets say Hex and eldrich blast, so you will be doing much more damage, as well as debuffing enemiey saving throws, and you only need to worry about pumping cha
Now if valor bards could use combat inspiration on themselves, it would get the closer, but lore would still beat it by a mile
Valor maybe if you plan ahead, like half-orc bard, that has high STR and such and uses greatswords |
| #10Setzer_GOct 21, 2014 14:44:08 | El Luchador Terrible, half orc bard, expertise in athletics. Valor, grappling afficianado |
| #11melloredOct 21, 2014 14:50:53 |
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| #12MistwellOct 21, 2014 14:52:57 |
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| #13melloredOct 21, 2014 14:58:44 |
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| (Reply to #12)Divljak |
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| (Reply to #13)Divljak |
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| #16LellindilOct 21, 2014 17:39:58 | I still lean towards lore. Both variants want a secondary stat to be decently high but the Valor bard needs it much more. A lore bard can get by with low stats everywhere but charisma, for a valor bard to be useful they need to have a high attack stat (dex or str) especially if they want to grapple. Extra attack is definitely handy for grappling but the 14 feature of lore bards gives them the ability to excel at it as well.
Lore bards are great force multipliers for a group. They can add damage as needed, heal great, fill skill monkey role and they will definitely have access to some of the sickest spell combos as more content is released. Right now things like hex + hold person + scorching ray for a nuke that only slightly trails behind sorc or evoker in damage but they didn't have to Multicass to do it.
want to dip fighter so you can do savage action surge novas? Cool cause now you have proficiencies.
All that being said valor bard seems like a solid choice if you want to be doing damage face to face, I feel like there are greater opportunities to do damage with spell combos. While still bringing more utility to the table. |
| #17melloredOct 21, 2014 18:31:38 |
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| #18LuthielValkireOct 21, 2014 19:41:14 | For my part, I like the flavor of the valor bard better. But I'm more inclined to gishes and the valor bard is the only 9th level spell caster gish in the game (technically warlock is too, but the warlock mechanic is so heavily invested in invocations, it's tough to consider it a full caster). Lore is more an arcane version of the cleric with some amazing party support and spell versatility. I wouldn't call it a gish.
Sure, cutting words is fantastic, but 2 attacks, and paladin smite spells are wonderful for someone who wants to play a character who's able to run in and support his front line buddies after making half the baddies attack their allies via mass suggestion.
Overall, and somewhat off topic, as someone who's tended to run casters and gish types in most of the previous games, I find myself really warming up to the fighter and the EK subclass. A rather odd sensation coming to someone who's played the game since BECMI and AD&D. Back then, it was primarily elves, fighter mages, and fighter/magic user/clerics.
But, yes, if you're looking at which bard is best at the party support role, then lore is certainly better. And if you're looking at who's the better, more powerful, and exceptionally versatile caster, lore wins that one too. I guess it's really a matter of preference -- gish or support/caster. |
| (Reply to #17)Divljak |
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| #20MistwellOct 21, 2014 20:00:11 |
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| #21ZardnaarOct 21, 2014 20:09:24 |
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| #22ZardnaarOct 21, 2014 20:26:00 |
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| #23SiderealmotionOct 22, 2014 1:39:39 | A single level of cleric gives Lore the same or better armor while enhancing their entire support schtick (access to bless as well as removing healing word and/or cure wounds from the list of bard spells that you might need to have, as they are now freely available as is ritual detect magic if somehow nobody else has it... all combined with several nifty cleric domain possibilities). Once you have shield mastery, a Lore bard is a better grappler than a Valor bard, and heavy armor is a godsend if you are going to pump strength. With the exception of swift quiver archers, there aren't many things that a Valor bard does that really stand out once multiclassing is an option. |
| #24ElbaconeOct 22, 2014 3:30:33 | Why not start with a level paladin? Gives heavy armor proficiency and shields. Nice damage boost with smite, you can sacrifice the higher spell slots you cant fill. The bonus to your aura from charisma and the same casting stat meshes better with bard then cleric does. Also I would go for Lore to get Haste at bard level 6. No idea why that isn't on the Bard list...?! Heavy armor also means you can dump charisma entirely (except for acrobatics and initative) and just max strength and pick bard spells that dont interact with baddes but just buff. |
| #25melloredOct 22, 2014 5:15:50 |
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| #26melloredOct 22, 2014 5:26:20 |
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| #27melloredOct 22, 2014 5:31:42 |
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| #28melloredOct 22, 2014 5:50:49 |
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| #29TimboramaOct 22, 2014 6:27:12 | I really like Lore bard, but Valor of course has its place (especially at a table that doesn't like MC'ing, not that I've encountered one, but it IS an optional rule).
Valor is great, but Magical Secrets is just too juicy. If you're worried about AC, 1 level (or 2, max) of Cleric will do the job! If you're worried about damage, use your extrea Magical Secrets or just go Warlock 2 for Hex+Eldritch and Agonizing Blast! Remember to only dip a max of 2 levels, because 18th level Magical Secrets means you get Wish...
Or just go straight Lore bard and not worry about all that razz-matazz and rely on your allies to protect you and/or kill junk. That can work, too! |
| #30kimura121Oct 22, 2014 8:51:50 | Battle Magic is just too cool to pass up. I'm a sucker for the versatility of swinging a sword, casting spells in the same turn. Plus being a skill monkey and buffing your allies is just icing on the cake. |
| #31ZardnaarOct 22, 2014 13:11:54 |
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| #32melloredOct 22, 2014 13:24:42 |
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| #33ChrisCarlsonOct 22, 2014 13:33:18 | This guy is sooo metal he took valor hard! |
| #34akschmidOct 22, 2014 14:52:54 | To me the big difference conceptually between a Lore Bard and a Valor Bard is that a Lore Bard takes what a Bard does well and does it better, whereas a Valor Bard improves what a Bard doesn't do well. A Valor Bard is a good skill monkey but with Bonus Proficiencies and Peerless Skill the Lore Bard is better. The Valor Bard is a good caster but with two additional Magic Secrets the Lore Bard is better. The bards biggest weaknesses are damage and survivability. Valor Bards negates much of these weaknesses. Sure there are other ways to cover these weaknesses, but they require taking two precious feats, one feat and using equally precious magic secrets or multi-classing and delaying all the things that make a bard great. So it comes down to a philisophical question (if not a character concept question) of would you rather play to your strengths (Lore) or cover your weaknesses (Valor), |
| (Reply to #15)Ashrym |
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| (Reply to #16)Ashrym |
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| (Reply to #21)Ashrym |
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