Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Drizzt_hunter Aug 26, 2014 8:09:12	I am in love with the bard, I have always thought it was such an awesome class to play and even though not the best at anything can hang with the best.   Now my frustration comes from the two choices of bard colleges, College of Knowledge and College of Valor. They are so unbalanced it is almost laughable. Now I know that every class might have something similar but I want to explain why I think it is unbalanced and get others opinion and see if I am maybe missing something.   College of Knowledge -  (and why I think it sucks) The bard I play is a mentally challenged human (think Forrest Gump) good stuff and luck always seem to follow him around and he seems to be a great adventure even though no one believes he does the stuff he says he does. I tried taking the College of Knowledge for roll play reasons thought it would fit what I was going for, and boy was I disappointed.  Here is why,   Bonus proficiencies- Gain 3 extra skill proficiencies (might be 2 I am at work without the book in front of me)   My problem with this is that it has such a little impact on the game RPG or combat that it is almost laughable.  A bard starts with 3 skills then gains 2 from a background then if you take Variant human like I did that is 6 skills.  You can basically take everything you want and then some. Then throw in the fact that you get Jack of all trades at lvl 2 and it makes this feature worthless.   Cutting Words – Use a reaction to against an enemy and roll your Bardic inspiration minus the result from the attack.   Ok I actually think this power is great and has a ton of awesome role play value. The down side is that the college of valor power at this lvl is better in every way except for the fact that it can’t be used as a reaction.   Additional Magic Secrets – gain two spells from any class (must be of a level you can cast) count as bard spells   Ok this is also awesome but the bonus is so diminished by the fact that everyone gets magic secrets at 10, 14, 18.   Lvl 14 power (don’t remember name) – When you roll an ability check you can use a Bardic inspiration dice.   Even for role play value I see very little that this adds the game play, especially at lvl 14.     College of Valor - and why it blows College of Knowledge out of the water   Bonus proficiencies- gain proficiencies with medium armor, shields, and martial weapons.   This really opens up the play style to be whatever you want it to be. Want to play a str board and sword bard go for it, want to wield a great ax have at it.   Extra attack- gain an extra attack   The bonus is amazing, while Additional magic secrets rocks as well it doesn’t give you any extra slots so you are forced to use existing slots for those spells. There is no cap on this ability, you can use it every single round.   Lvl 14 power (don’t remember name) – When you cast a cantrip you can make a melee attack as a free action. This is simply amazing blast someone with vicious mockery to debuff then shoot or stabs someone. On top of that you will have an extra attack, so this lets you basically get three attacks off every single turn no feats or dual wielding necessary.     Now obviously these are just my opinions. I would really like to see differing views and opinions maybe I am missing something that makes College of Knowledge awesome.
#2 LordVonDerp Aug 26, 2014 9:06:27	Battle magic let's you make an attack as a bonus action , you don't get extra attack with it. Also adding a d10/d12 to ability checks is a lot, especially on those skill checks that make or break a plan
#3 Forgember Aug 26, 2014 9:02:49	I think the big deal with Additional Magic Secrets is that you get it at 6th level, some games don't even make it to 10th. I know I would want to be slinging Magic Missles and Lightning Bolts as a 6th level Bard.
#4 Drizzt_hunter Aug 26, 2014 9:03:44	LordVonDerp wrote:
#5 Drizzt_hunter Aug 26, 2014 9:05:21	Forgember wrote:
#6 Thoughts_My_Aim Aug 26, 2014 9:07:22	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
#7 mellored Aug 26, 2014 9:08:49	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
#8 mellored Aug 26, 2014 9:15:45	Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
(Reply to #4) LordVonDerp	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
(Reply to #8) Drizzt_hunter	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #9) Drizzt_hunter	LordVonDerp wrote:
#12 Drizzt_hunter Aug 26, 2014 9:30:34	mellored wrote:
#13 Drizzt_hunter Aug 26, 2014 9:32:46	Thanks for the input guys really enjoy getting different perspectives. I think the big issue I see with the College of Knowledge is that it can depend on a DM. For a character that will play at conventions and random DM's mostly it lacks luster because the extra abilities it gains are largely dependant on if you have a DM that has you roll lots of skill checks or not.
#14 mellored Aug 26, 2014 10:17:46	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
#15 mellored Aug 26, 2014 10:20:22	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
#16 Ashrym Aug 26, 2014 10:22:50	There are some definite misconceptions going on. Battle magic allows a bonus attack. The actual action was used in spell and is not available to make the attack action. The extra attack feature requires the attack action and not the spell action. Battle magic also isn't limited to cantrips. It works with any bard spell. Basically, make an attack action and get an extra attack; cast a spell action get a bonus attack. Cutting words and peerless skill are awesome because they can apply to the bard instead of inspiring someone else, and magical secrets at 6th level is when it has the most impact as it opens up options when spells known are limited.
#17 Drizzt_hunter Aug 26, 2014 10:32:54	Ashrym wrote:
#18 NN1 Aug 26, 2014 10:43:18	The college of valor, suprisingly, makes a bard better at melee combat.  The college of lore, can't compete in that regard.  What a lore bard does have, however, is utility and versitility.  More spells, more skills, and the ability to buff their crazy skills.  If you want to be better at combat you should definitely choose combat bard over skill-monkey bard, but if you want a character that knows everything and has a diverse custom spell list, go with lore bard.   There are 18 skills defined in the PHB if I counted correctly (not counting tool proficiencies).  A varient human lore bard will be proficient in half of them at 3rd level (2 of which having double proficiency bonus), and have half proficiency in the other 9.  Plus you have proficiency in 3 instruments.  Add an extra expertise at 10th level and peerless skill at 14th and you will be able to comfortably succeed in nearly anything you attempt.  Learn a blast spell here, a healing spell there, etc. and you are a Swiss army knife.
#19 Drizzt_hunter Aug 26, 2014 11:02:37	NN1 wrote:
#20 Yag007 Aug 26, 2014 12:25:03	dont forget that you can take swift quiver at lvl 6 when you get those magical secrets, and that would allow you to make two ranged attacks for each attack action for an encounter(10 rounds) each long rest.  that means that when it counts most you can pop the spell and essentially get the extra attack college of valor would give you.
(Reply to #20) Ashrym	Yag007 wrote:
#22 the_move Aug 26, 2014 13:40:34	If you wanna (lore) bard, choose half-elf. That's an additional 2 skill proficiencies along with 4 extra ability points total and lots of other useful goodies. Imho the best race for bard/warlock/sorcerer. And who needs swift quiver, when you can get eldritch blast and/or firebolt as a cantrip. No ammunition or spell slots required.
#23 mellored Aug 26, 2014 13:24:20	the_move wrote:
#24 the_move Aug 26, 2014 13:45:55	Besides, that extra Magical Secrets is not diminishing. Instead you needn't waste your higher magical secrets for lower, yet useful spells. Pretty good deal, if you ask me.
(Reply to #13) crimfan07	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
#26 ppaladin123 Aug 26, 2014 15:15:47	I think a lore bard would also want to pick up ritual caster (wizard) so he can gobble up all the out-of-combat ritual spells that are useful without having to spend precious spells known on them. Also the bard can get a familiar that way....potentially an owl for even better perception checks.
(Reply to #11) LordVonDerp	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
(Reply to #26) NN1	ppaladin123 wrote:
#29 Hagaurd Aug 26, 2014 17:36:12	Im torn between a half-elf multiclass warlock 2 then rest valor bard vs a human multiclass paladin 6 then rest lore bard.  Gernerally I'd agree with the original post that valor bards are better because they can hold their own in a fight, but if a player is considering multi classing as a combat class, the armor prof and second attack become redundent.   IMO: Every bard ought to have inspiring leader unless someone else in the party has it. Something to consider if you are playing a valor bard or multiclass with a shield is taking shield master and expertise in athletics.  Knocking people prone with strength + 2 times prof bonus as a bonus action.
#30 ppaladin123 Aug 26, 2014 17:36:29	NN1 wrote:
#31 Hagaurd Aug 26, 2014 22:26:16	Im torn between a half-elf multiclass warlock 2 then rest valor bard vs a human multiclass paladin 6 then rest lore bard.  Gernerally I'd agree with the original post that valor bards are better because they can hold their own in a fight, but if a player is considering multi classing as a combat class, the armor prof and second attack become redundent.   IMO: Every bard ought to have inspiring leader unless someone else in the party has it. Something to consider if you are playing a valor bard or multiclass with a shield is taking shield master and expertise in athletics.  Knocking people prone with strength + 2 times prof bonus as a bonus action.