Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 adrew911 Aug 27, 2015 0:58:50	hi guys, i am currently buildin a bard for my campaign, and i would like some advice  First of all, my scores are 15-15-15-17-14-10 (pretty good series, I know), and are even before racial adjustment  So I will take half elf to have 19 cha and two 16 in Des e con    Now the main issue:   Would it be better to have 20 levels in pure bard and take valor colleges, or take 6 levels in paladin and 14 in lore bard, or Again 2 paladin and 18 valor bard?   I like the multi class thing, but if I take 6 paladin I will like go very late in bard build. Even if it is a good bump in my melee abilities   Any advice? Which option will you take?
#2 mellored Aug 27, 2015 6:26:32	Pretty much any combination of bard/paladin will work well.  (also consider rogue). What are you going for in melee?  Damage, Support, or  Tankiness?   You probably want to multiclass at least somewhat.  Valor bards are still primaraly spellcasters, not melee guys.
#3 adrew911 Aug 27, 2015 9:18:12	The fact is that we need a support for our group, we have a true tank fighter with shield I was not sure if taking 6 levels in paladin or just 2,because with 4 more levels (6 paladin total) i loose too many spells. What u suggest PS: why rogue? Any combination good?
#4 Zardnaar Aug 27, 2015 11:24:51	With those stats be a human and ake the warcaster and shield master feats and pure valor bard. 18 strength, 16 cha at level 1. Or take resiliant in there as well instead of warcaster and have 16 con as well with 14 dex.
#5 adrew911 Aug 27, 2015 11:41:05	Why take 18 str when I can have 16 in Dex and Cos, and still do pretty nice dmg? I could take 18 cha and 16 Dex, along with 15 cos and 14 str, 10 int Resilient feat for +1 cos and proficiency in saving throws maybe? Then full valor bard
#6 mellored Aug 27, 2015 11:56:41	adrew911 wrote:
#7 adrew911 Aug 27, 2015 13:03:06	So how would you make the progression of the build? I should start paladin, 1 level bard and then? Max out paladin and proceed with bard?
#8 Kron-Karn Aug 28, 2015 13:11:31	I have been working on a similar build I call Neil the Knight (one of my 2 year old daughters books had a singing Knight called Neil and it kinda stuck with me). Here are a few options Iv come up with.   All builds are a Half Elf with Plate Armour and a Great Sword (if you wonna go Sword and Sheild then take War Caster instead of Resilliace (Con)) and the starting stats of Str 18, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 16.   Lore 12/ 8 Ancients P 1-2/ B 3-8/ P 9-14/ B 15-20 Lv 6- Resilience (Con ) or War Caster Lv 10- Cha +2 (18) Lv 14- Str +2 (20) Lv 16- Cha +2 (20) Lv 20- Inspiring Leader I think this is the most likely what you are looking for. This build is bursting at the seams with support. Weather your healing, buff, debuff or battle field control its got it all. Its biggest down side is your second att comes late.   Lore 6/ 14 Ancients P 1-5/ B 6-11/ P 12-20 Lv 4- Resilliace (Con) or War Caster Lv 9- Cha +2 (18) Lv 14- Str +2 (20) Lv 18- Cha +2 (20) This build is more of a front line attacker than a mid field supporter. It is intended to fight side by side with your fighter and take advantage of the paladins support spells and auras of which there are meny. This build has the fewest Spell slots.   Valor14/ Vengeance 6 P 1-2/ B 3-6/ B 7-8/ P 9-12/ B 13-20 Lv 6- Resilience (Con) or War Caster Lv 10- Cha +2 (18) Lv 14- Str +2 (20) Lv 18- Cha +2 (20) This is your true Battle Bard. I am really not sure about this build but thought I'd throw it in just for variety.   I myself am not sure which way to go with this build and would love to hear your reactions.
#9 adrew911 Aug 28, 2015 16:20:21	First of all , i am really really happy to read such an extent reply IMO i love the half elf race and i would really like to use it in my build, but i am forced to take human because i don't really know when the campaign will end and so i will use earlier the feats, just to try them I do really agree that resilience (Con) is mandatory to give saves on Concentration checks. First point that we have in common is that both builds should have at least 6 paladin levels, because that aura is too damn good to jump, free saves for everyone (and ourselves) is just too strong Second point, i will most likely take the Lore bard instead of Valor, if i have 6+ paladin levels, because: -extra attack overlaps with Valor bard -armor and shield proficiency overlaps with Valor bard -We have earlier magical secrets, so we can take even druid/wizard spells in our list and maybe just throw some additional control here and there Third, i agree in taking 6 or 8 levels in paladin, not just 7 (and not 14, otherwise is more a paladin than a bard); this, to not give up a feat at the potential 8th paladin level or to break at a solid feature (aura of liv 6) I do not agree in taking stat increment both for strenght and cha, because maybe we can have those increments through use of tomes and manuals (+2 to a stat, found inside DM guide) Instead of stats, i would stress the melee option of this build, taking feats like Shield Mastery (suggested before) and maybe even before that i would take War Caster. I was thinking even about Heavy Armor Master, because if we start Paladin liv 1 we have proficiency with heavy armor, and -3 dmg is cool early game I don't even am sure of taking as progression Pala 1-2 / bard 3-8 / pala 9-12(or 14)/ bard till full build Could be better something like Paladin 1/ bard 2/ pala 3-(or 9) / bard fill? In order to have bard spells early on through multiclassing spell slots rules? So my doubts are: 1)it is worth to loose 9th level spell slots, in order to have the paladin 7th level feature? (In other words, 6 or 8 level paladin?) 2)which is the best progression?
#10 Zardnaar Aug 28, 2015 18:36:55	The Paladin thing is going to take a long time to switch on think level 11 or so. You will be  buff machine witht he Paladin thing, if you care about level 9 spells go fighter 1, valore bard 17+
#11 Kron-Karn Aug 28, 2015 19:42:12	Variant human is great for multi classing. So your scores would be Str 18, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16. Or you can swap Str and cha   With this progression P 1-2/ B 3-8/ P 9-14/ B 15-20 you get both smites and your magical secrets as eirly as possible which give you the option of laying the smack down or helping a friend.   This progresstion P 1/ B 2/ p 3-9 / b 10-20 front loads your build with your Paladin abilities, you won't get much in the way of battle field control til much later.   As for feats we start with Resilience (con) so you get +3 to HP all the way up. If your gonna be a sword and sheild guy then War caster is a must eirly to avoid casting complications. You rolled well enough that you don't really need to worry to much but stat bumps but I would prob make sure both Str and cha are at least 18. Then Shield Master to shove and Greater Weapon Master right after so that you can prone your oponants then use adv on your -5/+10 Att. And finally you could go Inspiring Leader for some more buffs or martial Adept for added battle field control. lv 1-Resilience (Con (16)) lv 6- War Caster lv 10- Str or Cha +2 (18) lv 14- Sheild Master lv 16- Greater Weapon Master lv 20 Inspiring Leader or Martial Adept
(Reply to #10) Kron-Karn	Zardnaar wrote:
#13 adrew911 Aug 29, 2015 0:11:34	Yes, I do agree with the feat progession and the race selection   I believe I will try    P 1/ B 2/ P 3/B 4-8/ P 9-14/ B 15-20   It is kinda strange, I know, but this little change will make my character get the feel of the multi class one level early     Woth that progression of yours, the bard is lore right? Because too much overlaps with valor bard and paladin
#14 Zardnaar Aug 29, 2015 2:50:51	Kron-Karn wrote:
(Reply to #13) Kron-Karn	adrew911 wrote:
(Reply to #14) Kron-Karn	Zardnaar wrote:
#17 Zardnaar Aug 30, 2015 12:14:41	Kron-Karn wrote:
#18 adrew911 Aug 31, 2015 10:20:22	And is there any way to make it optimal? Maybe reducing paladin to 2 levels only, instead of 6? Btw i liked the idea of a 8-th level paladin in order to have more melee options and add some casting options during leveling I mean, like doing Paladin liv 1/ Bard 2/Paladin 3/ Bard 4-6/ Paladin 7-12/ fill bard   This way i will have a solid spellcasting and bardic inspiration early on, get extra attack at 9 (i know) but not loosing too feats earlygame and having the most OP things of the paladin as early as possible, without dumping the bard counterpart (just slowing the spellcast progression, but increasing thew paladin spellcasting counterpart by full-caster level of bard)   I have other people casting 9th level spells, both divine and arcane, so it could be ok to jump them and just keep bard spells as a "add-on" option to the paladin class Assigning some early bard level, makes use of bardic inspiration even early on, so it could be ok
#19 Treantmonklvl20 Aug 31, 2015 11:13:20	adrew911 wrote:
(Reply to #19) adrew911	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#21 Kron-Karn Aug 31, 2015 11:59:05	Thatll It prob look some thing like P 1/ B 2/ P 3-7/ B 8-12/ P 13-14/ B 15-20 which in term of your feats will just mean you get resiliance (con) one lv faster. I see the biggest choice between this build and the P 1/ B 2/ P 3/B 4-8/ P 9-14/ B 15-20 build being whether you want magical secrets or a second Att first.
#22 Treantmonklvl20 Aug 31, 2015 13:32:17	adrew911 wrote:
#23 Treantmonklvl20 Aug 31, 2015 13:32:24	adrew911 wrote:
#24 adrew911 Sep 01, 2015 10:15:20	Not sure about the fighting style +1 CA and +2 dmg are tempting me, as well as protector...
(Reply to #24) Kron-Karn	adrew911 wrote:
#26 adrew911 Sep 01, 2015 11:51:16	ATM i am using a Warhammer with a Shield, really every one of them is of great valor xD
#27 Kron-Karn Sep 01, 2015 14:18:03	Then defenetly pick duelest.