Blade, Book, and Chain: the Warlock Guide
“Knowledge itself is never dangerous, it is how that knowledge is used that is dangerous”
Table of Contents
1. Introduction
2. Proficiencies, Backgrounds, Patrons and Pact Forms
3. Spells - Slots and Mystic Arcanum
4. Eldritch Invocations
5. Feats
6. Equipment
7. FAQ
8. Builds and Combos
This guide will use the following ratings:
Blue choices are excellent. It’s hard to go wrong with one of these buddies.
Green choices are good. Maybe not top-tier, but you’ll be good with this choice.
Black choices are just average.
Purple choices are substandard and situational. It also may represent a good choice at low level, but one to drop at high.
Red choices are traps. Avoid these at all costs.
(( Currently in the process of updating to the following
)
Gold is mandatory. It's a rare rating that denotes something that is so good that you must take it, or you can't call yourself optimized.
Sky Blue choices are excellent. It’s hard to go wrong with one of these buddies.
Blue are very strong options for a wide variety of things.
Black choices are just average. They neither add to, nor subtract, from anything.
Purple choices are substandard and situational. It also may represent a good choice at low level, but one to drop at high.
Red choices are traps. Avoid these at all costs.
What is a Warlock?
To be a warlock is to be a student of an eldritch being, shaped and changed by the very arcane forces you are taught to channel. The problem is those very arcane forces tend to be rather on the dark side. As well, these occult dabblers have a strong tendency to turn away from the gods and to the forces of darkness in their pursuit of power - there’s a very good reason the Pact Forms allude the old phrase "Bell, Book, and Candle," an old method of excommunication in the church. Learning Pact Magic requires much sacrifice and dedication as any paladin’s Oath, and the prices always have teeth. Warlocks embody every dark rumor of witches burned at the stake and occultists dabbling in knowledge no one was meant to know.
But as for the meat of what makes a warlock tick, the actual mechanics? Unlike every other caster in the game, this class is not vancian magic. Warlocks do not Spellcast, a specific game mechanic. Instead, they have Pact Magic, which relies on a combination of powerful at will effects, passive pact blessings, a handful of encounter based spells, and the occasional daily powers, as well as your choice of Invocations that can be any of the above. Warlocks are very much a sum of many moving parts, all coming together; all these different parts are all filled with different choices, making the Warlock the most customizable and one of the most flexible classes to date.
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Pact Magic - unlike other casters, the warlock only has a handful of spell slots for all their 1-5th level spells. They grow in power as the warlock levels, so all they're always cast at the same power level. Example: If you know Charm Person and you’re a level 7 character, you will always cast the spell as a 4th level spell; at level 9, you will always cast the spell as a 5th level spell. The slots also all recharge with every short rest.
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At level 11, you start gaining "Mystic Arcanum" - short hand for saying that your level 6+ spells are daily powers. Three Patrons and three Pact Forms - the Patron offers spells and some boons, while the pact form lets you choose if you want to be a gish (blade), a dedicated spellcaster (book), or pet master (chain).
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Invocations are a grab bag of random abilities, spells, and enhancements to the warlock. They're kind of like a collection of warlock specific feats. See below for more details.
A note on Spell Slots and Resting
Spell by spell, a warlock can easily keep up with the damage a wizard does. The difference, however, comes from the fact that warlocks have so few spell slots. While they do refresh easily on short rests, you cannot count on a rest between every encounter; its recommended you get two short rests a day, and around 4 combats. Depending on the adventuring day, you might get more than that, you might get less. There are days where a warlock is not given any chance to get a short rest at all. It all depends on your GM, the current story, your party make up, and how generous short rests are in your current game. It also depends if your GM is using any of the options in the DMG to lengthen or shorten the time it takes to have a short rest.
So, its a good idea to keep an eye on your party composition when building. Fighters (especially Battlemasters), Monks, Bards (notably song of rest and bardic inspiration), and clerics / druids that focus on Channel Divinity / Wildshape powers. All these have benefits that rely on more short rests than few, and a party comprised of them will want more short rests more often than not.
Thus, depending on the GM and party composition, a warlock can very easily swing between the 4th edition AEDU (at-will, encounter, daily, utility) style of play, or the 3e at-will-caster style warlock.
PlayStyles and Class Focus
Something to keep in mind - warlocks are not AoE blasters like the evoker wizard or the sorcerer. Instead, they have a few major defining aspects - eldritch blasts, curses, and mind control. You could be a Pact of the Blade follower that functions much like a dark paladin. A warlock that focuses on eldritch blasts can be compared to a magical version of an archery-focused Fighter. Someone that focuses on the battlefield mobiilty and control, especially the book-locks, are much like an anti-bard, with inflicting debuffs on enemies instead of buffing friends. As well, there is the potential to be a pet-focused class, much like a druid summoner, or a necromancer, but with dominated people instead of summons or undead.
2. Race, Proficiencies, Backgrounds,
Races
3. Patrons and Pact Forms
The Pact: Patrons
It is said that Evil has three defining Vices - Dominating Tyranny, Seductive Corruption, and Mad Destruction. Each can point to each as a shade of Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic, or as a dark counter to the three major Paladin Oaths. In any case, no matter how you look at the three Patrons, each has its own niche that they fill.
The Fiend is the most direct of all the patrons. While abyssal patrons aren’t unknown, this path is highly influenced by the Infernal. Fiery magic is potent, but ultimately a common tactic in the Blood War, as devils are immune while demons are not. Suggestion and Command spells allow the warlock to give orders, and be obeyed, though they lack Dominate Person. The Fiend boons revolve around vampiric healing, resistances, and a bit of luck when making a skill or save - more than helpful when trying to maintain a Concentration spell! If you are looking to thrive in a battle, then this path is for you.
The Archfey is, perhaps, the most subtle of the patrons. Where the Fiend can be considered a warrior, the Archfey is the path of the arcane trickster. Charms, fears, illusions, and madness are all hallmarks of this path. It even comes with two of the most powerful spells in the game - Dominate Person and Improved Invisibility. These two spells alone make this a path worth considering, as are Sleep, Faerie Fire, and Blink. The boons all allow you to move around the field and escape danger, often by messing with the minds and perceptions of your foes. If you want to play a magical rogue, this is for you.
Great Old Ones are the most thoughtful of patrons. Literally. The magics and boons this path grants are primarily psionic abilities, such as telepathy, clairvoyance, and telekinesis. Unlike the heavily resilient Fiend or stealthy Archfey, this path doesn’t lend itself to being a strong hexblade; too many of its abilities suggest back row casting. Its level 1 ability, telepathy, is more fluff (though fun fluff) than actually useful in a lot of cases. Even its level 14 ability is to create a pet from a defeated humanoid, suggesting more of a defense for a back row caster than encouraging front row battles. Entropic Ward is a handy defense, but once a short rest is too infrequent for a front row character. That said, its utility spells and battlefield shaping control are outstanding. Take this path if you’re looking for more out of combat abilities.
The Pact: Pact Forms
Upon reaching level 3, warlocks get a one-time choice from three boons - book, blade, and chain, also called the witch, hexblade, and binder. You can choose to improve your pact form in future levels through Invocations. See below for more detail.
Pact of the Blade stands out from the other two; by selecting Blade, the warlock is taking the option to dedicate himself to being a magical warrior. The major benefit of going hexblade is to use damage-boosting feats with weapons, and to use magic items with your warlock spells / features. Like most fighters, you have the option of going Strength based, or Dexterity based. Archfey and Great Old Ones want to go with Dexterity for their hexblades; running hex and two weapon fighting is best at this point. The Archfey runs a lot like a rogue, playing the hidden skirmisher. Then, there is the Great Old One hexblades, who want to work as a controller, so they should reach for the Sentinel feat and tactics. Lock down your opponents.
The Fiend Patron, meanwhile, is ideal for Strength-based hexblade. But it does it in a rather unique way. Unlike normal melee warriors, who like to avoid being hit… the fiendish hexblade wants to be hit. You are playing a masochist. Using Blade Ward, Armor of Agathys, Flame Shield, Hellish Rebuke, and your Patron Boons, every time you get hit, you deal your attacker damage. You take less damage per hit, and you buffer yourself via Temporary Hit Points. Taking a glaive and the mastery feat may work wonders for your DPR with Lifedrinker and Hex running, as well as using Eldritch Blast with War Caster.
Pact of the Book is a pretty outstanding path. Right off, you get three cantrips, from any list. That means some of the most powerful at wills in the game are yours - Vicious Mockery and Guidance, to name two. Later, you can take an Invocation that lets you learn any ritual spell in the game. Lots of magic, though the vast majority of it will be utility spells and divinations. You can even get a wizardly familiar, as the Find Familiar spell is a ritual! A lot of magic involved here, even for the blast heavy Fiend and domineering Old One.
The Archfey, with their multitude of evasive capabilities, illusions, and emotional swaying make the best witches of the paths, lending themselves to the directing the battlefield as a controller and enabler. The trickster path is also the most cantrip-hungry, wanting access to the same things as everyone else, plus all the minor illusions, dancing lights, and charms they can get their hands on. This is also a path that enjoys inflicting various curses and misleads to shape the battlefield. The 14th level ability demonstrates this Controller tendacy perfectly - lock down a creature so your allies can
Unlike other Pact Forms, however, there is no patron that really struggles at being a Book warlock. Everyone loves more spells. The rituals and cantrips allow the Book to dabble in the other paths as well, getting familiars and melee options. The sheer amount of versatility make this path the strongest of the three Pact Forms.
Pact of the Chain plays a lot like the book path. The difference lies in utility again - the enhanced familiar that the binder gets is awesome for for scouting, like a small invisible magic eye to scout out anywhere. They come with spells and abilities that you normally wouldn’t have. While their attack action isn’t very good in terms of damage, it is good when you realize that some of them include things like poison on the attack, so the “attack” is more of a utility spell than damage. As well, they still can use the Help action to give you a hand in combat for advantage. The shared senses give you a strong perception check. Three of the four familiars even share their Magic Resistance with you (as per Monster Manual familiar rules). That, and at level 15 you can cast Hold Monster at will on celestials, fiends, and elementals. Which, while a niche situation, can be really good when it does come up. If you reach this level, the Chain becomes ideal for summoners, or dealing with threats on the Elemental or Outer Planes.
The Great Old One patrons seem to enjoy granting the most benefits to this form. Telepathy to speak with anyone whom you summon, charm, or anyway encounter is a very handy skill to possess, coupled with growing your own pet at the height of the game makes for very interesting play. This patron is the most likely to pick up Conjure and Undead spells, just to increase the number of pets they control with their various magics. Chain Old Ones have a very high chance of ignoring the Eldritch Blast entirely, relying on others to do their work.
As a direct opposite of the Pact of the Blade, Fiends have the most trouble being Chain masters. They simply lack access to the spells and abilities needed to support and maintain conjured, raised, or dominated pets at mid levels.
The problem with the familiars is that the Book pact, or even regular wizards, could arguably get the same familiars as the Chain pact, making this path less than unique. That said, only the Chain pact warlock can make even these familiars use an Attack. So, even if a wizard, a book warlock, and a chain warlock all have an imp familiar, only the Chain could order his to attack or allow it to have an opportunity attack. How much you want to give up your own action to allow a familiar to is up to debate.
Quasit - Inflict Fear and Poisoned status on combatants. Both strong, but almost requires the Quasit to be on its own. Invisiblity and shapechaning make for a good scout. Hands down the best at combat of the four options.
Imp - Better at being disguised, because simply being shapechanged doesn't automatically mean you succeed at stealth. Can Help you far more often in social situations, plus can operate better alongside you if you're running the Darkness + Devil Sight combo. The imp isn't as combat-powerful as the quasit, but it is far more adapt at out of combat situations.
Psuedodragon - Advantage on your Perception checks? Yes please! The large telepathic range is very nice, especially if you can speak through it. That's pretty powerful communication. Inflict poison condition with potential of sleep? Sadly, the dragon is the only one here without Invisibility.
Sprite - The sprite is the only familiar to not not share magic resistance, as it has none. Invisibility, ranged poison attack, and Heart Sight. Heart Sight is, perhaps, the ultimate Insight check, making it very hard to lie to a sprite that uses it.
4. Spells - Slots and Mystic Arcanum
Cantrips:
Blade Ward - Not bad if you’ve the time to set up a one turn buff. Certainly doesn’t hurt.
Chill Touch - Normally a good spell, its outshined by Eldritch Blast in all cases save one where the enemy heals or regenerates a lot.
Eldritch Blast - Signature warlock spell - has some nice Invocations that really boost its power. Highly recommended for everyone; even the blade lock wants this eventually for ranged attacks.
Friends - Poor man’s charm person; still, if you’re in a dungeon using it on an enemy, who cares about the drawback when you just saved a spell slot?
Mage Hand - Telekinesis lite.
Minor Illusion - What it says on the tin. Goes well with dancing lights or silent image for distractions when sneaking.
Poison Spray - A con-save spell for those casters who get caught in melee range.
Prestidigitation - Minor magical tricks. Fun, but ultimately nothing helpful.
True Strike - The fact that its a one turn Concentration spell and only affects one attack really hurts.
First level spells:
Armor of Agathys - Scaling thp and damage if a creature hits you. Even better for fiend warlocks. What’s there not to love?
Arms of Hadar - A good spell if you get surrounded by melee and you want to get out without wasting a turn, or shut down enemy reactions. Careful, though, because it doesn’t differentiate between friend and foe. Despite being a general spell, archfey and fiend have other options that work with their boons better, making this more appropriate for Great Old One Patrons.
Charm Person - With Friends in play, its best when used in long term social situations where you don’t want people to know you messed with their mind. Or you need to charm lots of critters at once.
Comprehend Language - What it says on the tin. Probably best to save for book pacts to use as ritual.
Expeditious Retreat - Run faster and stay out of melee range is never bad when you’re a ranged character. The Concentration, however, still hurts.
Hellish Rebuke - Nice little reaction spell, though debatable if its any good given the limited spell slots at low level; free with tiefling.
Hex - Concentration. Deal extra damage when hit with an attack; target has disadvantage on an ability check. Highly recommended for everyone.
Illusory Script - Another ritual spell dealing with hiding language. Best saved for book pacts.
Protection from Evil and Good - Unless you’re facing lots of these, its not worth the Concentration slot.
Unseen Servant - A third ritual spell for a menial task magic slave
Witch Bolt - Sith lightning, D&D style. Sadly, its not worth either your Concentration slot, nor one of your spell slots. You are better off just Hexing with Eldrtich Blast.
Archfey spells: Faerie fire - Lots of good uses here. Advantage, find invisible people, etc.
Sleep - Great at low levels, though it loses punch at high levels.
Fiend spells: Burning Hands - Nice low level spell quickly outshone.
Command - A great battlefield control spell that scales well.
Great Old One spells: Dissonant Whispers - Making a creature lose its reaction and run away as a ranged spell is fun, but not a big deal - Arms of Hadar is better.
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter - Weaker version of hold person
Second level spells:
Cloud of Daggers - Mini blade barrier spell, but unlike its larger cousin, the fact this spell only takes up a 5’ square makes it easy to avoid.
Crown of Madness - Poor man’s dominate person. Has no effect if there’s no one by the target on his turn, and you have to waste your own turn to maintain. Skip.
Darkness - Look at Devil’s Sight Invocation and wonder. Free with drow and tiefling.
Enthrall - Basically, you set yourself up as a distraction so other can sneak better. Put up a disguise, use the Help action on your allies, and cast the spell to distract the enemies. You bluff your way, your party gets advantage to sneak, enemies get disadvantage. Niche, and it doesn’t scale, but it can be effective if this is the kind of thing you want to play.
Hold Person - Hold-class spells are really good, allowing you to freeze critters, then have your teammates slaughter. The ability to hold four people at fifth level keeps this spell competitive with the later Hold Monster.
Invisibility - The ultimate in sneaking spells, even if it is low level.
Mirror Image - One of the best non-Concentration buffs in the game, with multiple images that confuse attackers.
Misty Step - Bonus action teleport to get out of danger, or melee range if you’re a caster. The lack of scaling and limited spell slots makes this an emergency tactic only.
Ray of Enfeeblement - Strength based attackers tend to have good Constitution saves. There are better spells that scale to use your magic with.
Shatter - Scaling thunder damage; take it for the potential to destroy physical objects, not the damage.
Spider Climb - While one can argue its use at levels 3-4, it quickly becomes obsolete by the at-will Levitate or the Fly spell.
Suggestion - Only single target, concentration, and doesn’t scale well. Useful in social situations or to recruit a second chain-lock pet, but there are far better spells to employ for combat or exploration.
Archfey spells: Calm Emotions - Can be handy if you need to remove fear or charms on your companions.
Phantasmal Force - A handy trickery spell, but again a niche situation, and isn’t better than just using invisibility and stealth. You don’t take it for the damage.
Fiend spells: Blindness/Deafness - Con save is a rather popular one with monsters, but if you can hit a wide group of creatures that don’t have a strong Con save, this is a very good way to shut down a battle.
Scorching Ray - Ends up dealing as much damage as an equivalent level fireball on its own, and its spread around targets instead of equally. On the other hand, each ray stacks with Hex - a potential of 15d6 at level 9 is not too bad, making it strictly better than eldritch blast for a long time, which is all you can really ask for.
Great Old One spells: Detect Thoughts - Reading minds can be useful in some situations, but its highly story dependant.
Phantasmal Force - A handy trickery spell, but again a niche situation. You don’t take it for the damage.
Third level spells:
Counterspell - Your limited spell slots make this more of a trap choice than a strong one. Where wizards or sorcerers can use low level slots to stop magic by making the check, you have more important things to cast with your limited slots.
Dispel Magic - Always a good spell. And the spellcasting check means that you can bring down high level magic as well. Plus, since its an ability check, Guidance can add to the roll as well!
Fear - Alright control spell, most notable for being an AoE. Warlocks can always use more AoEs.
Fly - One of the greatest utility spells in the game, hands down.
Gaseous Form - Traveling as a slow moving semi-solid misty cloud can have advantages, but considering that the cloud can still be hurt and may very well be obvious magical in most places, its use is very questionable. With a generous GM, its a niche effect. With a more devilish?
Hunger of Hadar - If you use control effects, like Repelling Blast, to keep enemies in the area, it can be devastating. Devil’s Sight lets you see into the darkness to target enemies, while they have to suffer in darkness.
Hypnotic Pattern - A curious variation on the Sleep spell, but using a Wisdom save.
Magic Circle - How often are you dealing with extraplanar creatures where you’d have the time and need to set up a magic circle?
Major Image - One spell level shy of making persistent illusions. Its of questionable use, considering that one can often use at-will effects to do most everything, without Concentration.
Remove Curse - How often do you need to remove curses? Modify Memory is the only curse that can’t just be Dispelled, and that is a very rare spell to encounter.
Tongues - The times you need to speak (instead of just comprehending a language) something other than Common is vanishingly small in many games, but it occasionally happens.
Vampiric Touch - Drains someone’s life over time. Good especially for hexblades in need of a recharge.
Archfey spells: Blink - 50% chance of being nigh untouchable in the Etherreal during your turns is a potent defense.
Plant Growth - You can create a doubly difficult terrain somewhere with plants to move through, or give a good harvest. If you’re not in the wild, pretty useless.
Fiend spells: Fireball - classic big blast of flame
Stinking Cloud - A nice AoE control spell.
Great Old One spells: Clairvoyance - There are better spying options than wasting one of your few spells known on this.
Sending - Long range distant communication can be handy, but not all games would benefit from it.
Fourth level spells:
Banishment - All the fun of Hold Monster, but better! At level 9, you can affect two creatures at once, and its a Charisma save instead of Wisdom.
Blight - Deals respectable damage to a single target, though Fiend warlocks likely have better fire-based AoEs at this point.
Dimension Door -Teleport yourself and another past obstacles. Works well when combined with a familiar scouting for you.
Hallucinatory Terrain - How often are you going to need to make an area look like something else? Very specific plot point.
Archfey spells: Dominate Beast - Unless you plan on running into a T-Rex, Giant Ape, Giant Croc, or a Mammoth, not much point to this spell at this level.
Greater Invisibility - Invisibility that doesn’t drop when attacking. What’s not to love?
Fiend spells: Fire Shield - Fun little damage-if-you-hit-me bit that stacks with Armor of Agathys. Good if you’re a hexblade in melee all the time.
Wall of Fire - Battlefield control spell and minion killer.
Great Old One spells: Dominate Beast - Unless you plan on running into a T-Rex, a Giant Ape, a Giant Croc, or a Mammoth, not much point to this spell at this level.
Evard’s Black Tentacles - If you can get a good spot, its deadly. If you can’t, creatures may just bypass it.
Fifth level spells:
Contact Other Plane - Ritual spell; best used with the book or someone with the ritual feat. If you really want this kind of spell, take the feat or the Invocation and get all the related spells.
Dream - fun little spell, but limited use outside of specific situations
Hold Monster - Hold-class spells are really good, allowing you to freeze critters, then have your teammates slaughter. Sadly, you won't be able to freeze multiple monsters at once by using a higher level, but its still a strong spell.
Scrying - A great utility spell. Good for lots of reasons, though not to every character’s tastes.
Archfey spells: Dominate Person - Dominates are always good spells
Seeming - Mass disguise self spell. Need to sneak in somewhere as a party? Got you covered. The problem being that anyone with a poor Deception check could be discovered, and out your entire party.
Fiend spells: Flame Strike - Fireball deals 2d6 more damage, has a longer range, and a wider radius. Unless you have specific reasons to deal radiant damage and avoid fire damage, its a worse spell.
Hallow - Create your own (un)holy ground. Fun, and great for flavor, but limited use when you’re out adventuring.
Great Old One spells: Dominate Person - Dominates are always good spells
Telekinesis - Effectively replace virtually any strength check with your mind. So much potential both in and out of combat.
From Warlock 11 on, you will get to pick a few more level 5- spells, as well as choosing Mystic Arcanum for your level 6-9. Unlike Pact Magic above, you cannot cast Mystic Arcanum at higher levels, or use it as a swapped spell slots, or the like. You can’t swap out the Mystic Arcanum for another spell as you level. The wording, however, does seem to imply you can pick a lower level spell and cast it always at that level. So, you could take Conjure Fey as your 8th level Mystic Arcanum and summon up to a CR 8 critter.
Sixth level spells:
Arcane Gate - Another limited range teleport spell, this time for groups.
Circle of Death - A negative energy fireball. Deals less damage, but an insanely wide radius makes this worth considering for large battlefield.
Conjure Fey - Right now, the strongest fey you can get is CR 3, the green hag. However, there are a number of Beasts that you can summon at CR 6. Handy if part of a chain-lock pet collection and you stay in Eldritch Blast sniper range so you don't lose Concentration.
Create Undead - Sadly, ghouls and ghasts on their own just aren't very powerful. Handy if part of a chain-lock pet collection.
Eyebite - Multiple “Save or Suck” effects, one critter per turn.
5. Eldritch Invocations
Invocations that modify Eldritch Blast
Eldritch blast is, perhaps, the most iconic spell of the warlock. Virtually everyone learns it - even a good number of hexblades.
Agonizing Blast: Add CHA to damage dealt for each hit. Everyone with Eldritch Blast should take this asap.
Eldritch Spear: With this, you’ll be able to shoot as far as a longbow. With Spell Sniper, you can shoot double the range of anyone else. Sadly, this does not mean much - most combats include the threat of melee characters. So, if you can arrange for the range, its awesome. Otherwise, not so much.
Repelling Blast: Knocks back target 10 feet. Can be great control effect at high levels for everyone. At low? It works awesome when combined the Great Old One difficult terrain spells like Hunger of Hadar and Evard’s Black Tentacles. Keep the monsters in the spell effect territory, being eaten alive. If you're playing a sniper, its good to keep enemies away so you can kite them.
Witch Invocations
Book of Ancient Secrets [Req Pact of the Tome]: Adding rituals from every list is awesome. Current ritual spells include: Alarm, Animal Messenger, Augury, Beast Sense, Commune, Commune with Nature, Comprehend Languages, Contact other Plane, Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, Divination, Drawmij’s Instant Summons, Feign Death, Find Familiar, Forbiddance, Gentle Repose, Identify, Illusory Script, Leomund’s Tiny Hut, Locate Plants or Animals, Magic Mouth, Meld into Stone, Phantom Steed, Purify Food and Drink, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Silence, Speak With Animals, Tenser’s Floating Disk, Unseen Servant, and Water Walk.
Note that, among the rituals above, is Leomund's Tiny Hut, a perfect little hideaway for when you need safety for a short rest to replenish your spell slots. If your party has a battlemaster or monk, they'll love you too for it.
Silence is also notable, as it works well with the One With Shadows Invocation.
A third popular ritual is Find Familiar - while you won't be as good as the Chain Warlock right off, having familiars is still very nice. Depending on the GM, you might even be able to get an imp, pseudodragon, sprite, or quasit, depending on how your GM reads the variant rules in the Monster Manual.
Binder Invocations
Voice of the Chain Master [Pact of the Chain]: Seeing and speaking through your familiar isn’t a big deal, considering that you’ll probably be in telepathic communication anyways. The actual use for this, however, is able to remote control any summons or mind controlled peon from sniper distance. Simply have your familiar lead the charge, while you're out of the firing range. Truthfully, this remote control option over summons and thralls is the ONLY reason I've really found for focusing on Pact of the Chain in the first place.
Chains of Carceri [Req lvl15, Pact of the Chain]: While highly restrictive, chances are that a warlock is going to be dealing with celestials, fiends, and elementals as a large part of their personal storyline, if not a major baddie, making at will Hold Monster very good in those cases. If you’ve taken lots of Conjure spells, its also very good if you lose control of your summons, making a high level Binder a good summoner. This is the warlock equivalent of the level 14 Conjurer Wizard and Land Druid abilities to mitigate being harmed by their own summons.
Hexblade Invocations
Thirsting Blade [Req lvl5, Pact of the Blade]: Pretty much necessary for all hexblades.
Lifedrinker [Req lvl12, Pact of the Blade]: Same as above - pretty much necessary.
At Will Spells
Armor of Shadows: Mage armor that compares with light armor. Depending on which gets the better magic items, one or the other may end up better.
Beast Speech: Speak with animals is a pretty niche effect. Especially when it also comes in ritual form.
Eldritch Sight: Detect magic is important for most arcanists. You can get wands and rituals that will cast this at will, though, so chances are you’ll never need it as an Invocation.
Fiendish Vigor: An effective 8 thp every fight. Very good at low levels, a bit less useful at higher. Since its at will, you can really just keep casting it until you get that extra 8.
Mask of Many Faces: Disguise self can be used for infiltration, spying, exploring, and all around tricking enemies. Classic illusionist trick, especially useful for those races prejudiced against in goodly towns. Upgrade to Master of Myriad Forms at level 15.
Misty Visions: Silent image is another classic illusionist trick to fool a large number of people at once.
Ascendant Step (Req lvl9): Levitate can lift you out of melee threat range, or lift up a threat with a successful Con save. Control and dodging all in one spell. Classic ability for drow.
Otherworldly Leap [Req lvl9]: Who needs to Jump when, at the same level, you can use Ascendant Step instead? Sure, Jump isn’t Concentration, but situations where you need it are also less common. That said, there is a neat little trick - you can cast it on your entire party, since its at-will and no Concentration.
Whispers of the Grave [req lvl9]: Speak with dead is an investigation / exploration tool. Kill a monster, interrogate it after the fact.
Master of Myriad Forms [Req lvl15]: Alter self at will sounds good, but growing gills or claws isn’t that important for a level 15 warlock. The only real reason to take this is if you’ve been running Mask of Many Faces, and so you can swap that Invocation out for this one.
Vision of Distant Realms [req lvl15]: Arcane eye, all the time? You will get to see the layout of any dungeon or place in a matter of moments. You can repeat as necessary without wasting slots. Its the ultimate in clairvoyance magic.
Daily spells
Thief of Five Fates: Even at low levels, there are better uses for your spell slots and Concentration than Bane, let alone one of your two Invocation slots. Its better if you have a set up with other party members.
Sign of Ill Omen [req lvl5]: Bestow curse once a day is good against a major boss at low levels, but against an average battle? Not so much.
Mire the Mind [Req lvl5]: Slow does lower defenses and abilities of up to six targets; the best of which involves restricting the creature to one attack. No multiattack, no Two Weapon Fighting, no using bonus actions for anything else.
Bewitching Whispers[Req lvl7]: Compulsion is a fine movement control spell. Not as much fun when the enemies have ranged weapons. Which, given Fly, most enemies should have at this point.
Dreadful Word [Req lvl7]: Confusion is a random spell. Chances are, you can get any affected critter to waste its turn. On the down side, they could get a regular action to break your Concentration.
Sculptor of Flesh[Req lvl7]: Polymorph is a tricky spell, but one that has traditionally had good results.
Minions of Chaos [Req lvl9]: Conjure Elemental can get you a Xorn. Lots of attacks, resistance to non-magical weapons, AC 19, lots of HP. If you know Terran or have GOO telepathy, the Xorn makes an excellent scout. See the Conjurer Guide for more details. Better if part of a Chainlock pet group.
Misc. abilities
Beguiling Influence: Proficiency in Deception and Persuasion. Great for those who like more skills.
Devil’s Sight: See in normal/magical darkness out to 120 feet. Considered to be awesome combination with the Darkness spell.
Eyes of the Rune Keeper: The ability to read all writing isn’t a big deal when there are rituals that do the same. There may be some times that you need to read a rare script without the time to cast Comprehend Language, but not in any game that I've seen or heard of. Especially not when writing tends to be Plot, which usually means there's a different solution than taking this invocation.
Gaze of Two Minds: Following inside the mind of a willing creature, even if you Charmed them, is good for scouting. However, restrictions mean its a poor man’s Scry spell that needs a lot of set up.
One with Shadows [Req lvl5]: Surprisingly better than you’d think. Mostly because this is the only Invisibility spell available that’s not Concentration based. When combined with Silence and Disguise Self, warlocks can make a surprisingly good sneaks without ever needing the skills.
Witch Sight [req lvl15]: Not quite true sight, but close enough to make it worthwhile.
6. Feats
There are any number of feats available for taking. That said, not every feat is for every class. Here, we’re hoping to go over every one that would be attractive to the class, or any traps one may fall into.
General Feats for any warlock
Alert - A generally useful feat that pretty much anyone wouldn’t mind. No surprises and an initiative boost.
Actor - The only +1 Charisma feat, its not a bad option if you start off with an odd number in your Charisma score. Warlocks can get a lot of milage out of Deception mixed with disguises, and this makes you better.
Defensive Duelist - All warlocks can hold a knife and use it for a bit of AC once a turn.
Inspiring Leader - THP is always handy to have; that said, you have Armor of Agaryths for extra health, so this would be more for everyone else.
Lucky - Happily taken by anyone anywhere.
Moderately Armored - If you're starting off as human, getting medium armor and shield proficencies can really boost up your AC for early game survivability with your free feat; still arguable use for other races. Though, as the game goes on, AC matters less, and more magic defenses show up. Just watch out if you use a shield - spells that require somantic and material components need a hand for both your focus and a hand for your gestures.
7. Equipment
In terms of mundane equipment, there's not a lot going on. Just as paladins can be compared to Fighters with divine powers, so are warlocks compared to rogues with unholy powers. A pure warlock, without dipping into another class for armor or weapon proficencies, is going to be looking at all the same equipment as the rogue, with a bit of wizard on the side.
Dagger - Unless you get a magical one, there's no reason to use this.
Rapier - This is, perhaps, the best weapon to use with a standard hexblade
Light Armor - Its always going to be a toss up if light armor or Armor of Shadows is going to be better off. Early game, AoS gives higher AC. Late game, once magic items come into play, they're the same. AoS also allows you to wear magic robes. But light armor frees up an invocation slot and is less magic-item dependant.
Arcane Focus - The stereotypical warlock focus is a rod. That said, its important to note that for a good number of warlock spells, you actually don't need one. Hellish Rebuke, Misty Step, Eldritch Blast to name some spells that are only running Vocal and Somantic components. And there's a lot of buffing spells where you can cast long before combat, such as Fireshield. So, its possible to run without one, if you don't mind restricting your spells to a handful, and missing out on a Rod of the Pact Keeper.
Whip - Reach is a very nice thing. And, given Hex and Lifedrinker, you're not too maried to your weapon for damage dealt.
Now, with multiclassing and human variant, you can end up with more armors to play with. Also enables you to play with the heavy weapons - your AC is just too low without Dex or bigger armor.
Glaive - For a hexblade, you want multipe hits, and Polearm mastery gives you that. However, nine times out of ten, your bonus action is going to be taken up by Hex - you do more damage with that up and a greatsword than the polearm. Add to the fact you need two feats to really make this work, its pretty much better to go with a greatsword (or axe).
Greatsword (or -axe)- Does lots of damage, even before (or if) you get Great Weapon Mastery. Given that you're feat starved already with War Caster, still able to use Hex with your bonus action, things are pretty good this way. You still run into the issue of no rod for a lot of spells, which can be an issue. Playable and strong, but it impedes your overall effectiveness.
Medium / Heavy Armor - Compared to light armor or AoS + Bracers, its better, simply because you need less Dex to stay competative. The downside? Less stealth and agility, which many warlocks favor.
Shield - See above discussion on Arcane Focus. You need both material components or somatic components for a lot of spells, and it takes actions to draw or stow your focus. So, you can pull using this off once you get War Caster. Its a good early game AC booster, where you also have few spell slots to use in combat. Later on, you can hang on to it if you pick up War Caster as well. Ironically enough, its not be the best option for hexblades, however - weapon plus shield equals no free hands for a rod to cast spells with.
Yes, magic items are the dominion of the DM. However, not all magic items are made equally for the warlock. Actually there's the Rod of the Pact Keeper, which is very literally made for warlocks- not picking one up is like having a paladin not uncover a holy sword.
Bracers of Defense (Rare)- if you've got the mage armor going on, this is the natural upgrade. And it comes out about the time light armor gets their first +1, so you have +2 AC bonus over wearing light armor at this point! And it lets you wear robes! Ironically in the late game, if there are no robes desired / available and you find some +3 light armor? Or your warlock is using Medium Armor and Shield? You're better off switching to the armor, and freeing up your mage-armor Invocation for something else.
Ring of Spell Storing (Rare)- At least one free spell a day. If you can convince your party to take two hour rests instead of just one, then we're talking about a free extra spell slot every rest!
Rod of the Pact Keeper (Uncommon to Very Rare)- +X to your eldrtich blast accuracy, +X to your Save DC checks (considering many warlock spells are Save or Die, a huge boon), and a free recharge of a spell slot, once a day. Very nice. Even if you're a Heavy Weapon blade, there's very little reason to not be excited to find one; you can always use an extra spell slot a day, then put the rod down.
Wand of Magic Detection (Uncommon)- Its nice to have Detect Magic for free. No wasted spells known, no wasted invocations. Just... Detect Magic, at will.
Wand of the War Mage (Uncommon to Very Rare)- A sister wand to the Rod of the Pact Keeper, this particular item grants +X accuracy with magic attacks, and ignores half cover, making it much more suitable than the Rod to fire into melee, and bypasses the entire reason to pick up Spell Sniper. That said, unlike the Rod, it doesn't increase spell save DC, nor give you a spell slot. If you're using your spell slots purely out of combat, and relying solely on Eldritch Blast, this is probably better than the Rod. However, given that you'd be passing up on some potent spells to do just that, its actually a loss for your character - not all fights can be solved with Eldritch Blasts
8. FAQ
When I Multiclassing with the Warlock, can I take Invocations based on my character level or my class level?
Acording to Jeremy Crawford, developer, Invocations are meant to be based on Warlock level, not your total character level. See link for twitter responce. So, that means that you can't take 3 levels of warlock to get access to Thirsting Blade, for instance.
What about Eldritch Blast? Doesn't that scale with your character level? Doesn't it still work if I multiclass?
Yes, all cantrips, including Eldritch Blast, grow with your character level. So, yes, this means you can dip 2 levels into Warlock, get Eldritch Blast, Hex, Agonizing Blast, and Repelling Blast, then go on to level up as a sorcerer or bard and use the most powerful class feature of the warlock class. This also lets you use the Pact Rod for those classes, giving you +X bonus to your spell DCs. Really, the warlock has some of the best stuff in the game.
Can I use Metamagics with Eldritch Blast? Can I convert warlock spell slots into Sorcery Points?
Yes, you can use Metamagic with warlock spells, including Hex and Eldrtich Blast. Note that Eldritch Blast, past level 4, has two targets, and thus is not a valid target for the Twin Spell metamagic option. As for turning Pact Magic spell slots into Sorcery Points? The debate comes down to the question "is Pact Magic different enough from Spellcasting that their spell slots are incompatable?" At the moment, there’s no official answers. So each Game Master is going to need to come up with the answer for themselves.
Why does the Warlock spell list go up to 9, but the spell slots go up to 5?
After level 10, warlocks learn what’s known as Mystic Arcanum. Every other level, you learn one level 6 spell, one level 7 spell, etc that you can cast once a day.
Does Agonizing Blast work on only the first hit, or every hit of Eldritch Blast? What about Repelling Blast?
Both Invocations work with every separate beam of Eldritch Blast. So, if you hit a single creature with three beams, then he takes 3d10 + 3*Charisma Mod damage, and gets pushed 30 feet.
Can I use a greatsword or glaive with two hands, then just hold it in one hand when casting a warlock spell with somatic or material components?
Maybe. It all comes down to how your DM interprets the rules. Mike, developer, has gone on record saying that the reasons the quarterstaff has the versatile property is specifically because its meant to be a two handed weapon, but can be held in one hand for when a caster wants to cast a spell with somatic components. This implies that you can't just hold a two-handed weapon in one hand to cast a spell. Getting Warcaster can alieviate some of those issues when it comes to somatic spells, but not material.
With material component spells (like Hex, Darkness, and several others), there's the whole "only one interaction with objects per turn" rule. So, letting go of the weapon, grabbing a material component, storing the component, then grabbing the weapon again is probably a few too many object interactions by the rules. It does seems to be the intent of the game that you shouldn't be able to pull off manipulating material components or arcane foci while trying to use a two-handed weapon. Its more than possible to work with just vocal and somatic spells, though.
9. Builds and Combos
Darkness and Devil’s Sight
Darkness lets you cover yourself in darkness. Now, every creature is at disadvantage to hit you, and you have advantage to hit them. This is especially nice tactic for the drow, who would no longer suffer from their sunlight allergy.
Awakened Mind + Suggestion
Normally, suggestion is a difficult spell to pull off in the middle of combat. Do you speak the creature's language? Not everyone speaks Common. Can the target hear you over the din of battle? Its hard to get a creature to understand you when its screaming while in the middle of a charge. The telepathy from the first level of the Great Old One Patron neatly side steps the issue. With a simple command such as, "Protect me and my allies, follow my orders, and I will reward you," you can effectively gain a poor man's version of Dominate Person in the middle of combat. The telepathy prevents common practices of avoiding Suggestion, such as blocking ears, from working.
Defunct - Eldritch Blast, Repelling Blast, Polearm Mastery, War Caster
This four part build had a rather interesting make up. How it used to work: when the creature approaches you, Polearm Mastery let you get an opportunity attack. War Caster would have kicked in, letting you hit them with eldritch blast.
Polearm Mastery has been errata'd - you can only make a polearm attack with the reaction you get from the Polearm Mastery feat. Click here for tweet.
Fighter 1 / Warlock 19
This is a pretty simple build, since it does something very simple. Starting off with Fighter gives you Constitution save proficiency for better Concentration checks. You get heavy armor and shields to help you with making a strength based hexblade. You get the Great Weapon Fighting Style to help deal more damage.
Here's a discussion on the subject using a Dragonborn.
Fighter (Battlemaster) 7 / Warlock (Fiend Blade) 13
One thing with the Pact of the Blade path is that, for the most part, it peaks in terms of power at level 12 with Lifedrinker. After that, the warlock path basically devotes itself to daily spells for a nova option. However, the majority of power still comes from short rest spell slots, and things like Hex, Fire Shield, Hellish Rebuke, and Armor of Agathys. On the other end, the Battlemaster is a fighter with short-rest-manuevers that ends up with the same issue - the majority of its class' power peaks at level 11 with Extra Attack (2). However, several of the manuevers not only increase the damage you personally deal by d8 damage, but do things like perform a Goading Attack - make the creature target you. Which, if you recall, is something the Fiend warlock wants - the more you are hit, the more damage that is returned to the opponent via warlock spells. Buffer with THP from Second Wind and Dark One's Blessing.
Your bonus action is likely going to be taken up by swapping Hex between targets, and using Second Wind. Use Hellish Rebuke and Riposte for your reactions. Because your bonus actions and reactions are pretty much already spoken for, the recommended weapon is the Great Sword.
Feats that you will want include Great Weapon Mastery, Warcaster, and potentially Martial Adapt for another superiority die, leaving two of the five attribute bumps for actual attribute bumps. Manuevers that you want are Goading Attack, Lunging Attack, and Riposte. Of the six Invocations your character will have, Lifedrinker is the only absolute. Devil's Sight for the Darkness combo, improving your chance to hit with Great Weapon Mastery, works well, but also leaves you without being hit yourself, given that's a large part of the tactics, it may not be desirable. Key spells include Hex, Fire Shield, Hellish Rebuke, and Armor of Agathys. Naturally, the fighting style you want to go with this is Great Weapon Fighting.
A level 7 Battlemaster and 13 Warlock can also use the Battlemaster's judgement of HP from level 7 to tell when to launch a Finger of Death spell to automatically kill someone, and gain a zombie pet!
There's some variation at the end of this - some may opt for Fighter 8/Warlock 12 and get another attribute bump / feat, or only getting 6 levels of fighter and access to Hurl Through Hell for a powerful daily nova option at the cost of a superiority die.
Cleric (war) 1 / Warlock 19
Same "get heavy armor" rational as the fighter build, but getting a few extra cantrips and spells to cast, but without the Constitution save or the Fighting Style. Difficult, however, because the cleric spells will always be competing for your Concentration spot and your good spell slots, causing a bit of friction.
Paladin 6 / Warlock 14 or Paladin 11 / Warlock 9
10. reserved for future thoughts
I think you should clarify the ratings on some Invocations such as Fiendish Vigor due to being able to swap out Invocations as you level up. It may not be great at higher levels but at the beginning it's really strong.
Also Moderately Armored is a very nice feat to take as a Human Variant imo, either for Hexblade or back line caster. Start with scale mail and a shield for 18 AC at level 1.
As for multiclassing:
Warlock 1+/Monk 1+ - the mixture can be fluid but basically builds on hex with monk's many attacks. Can work with a martial arts Pact weapon. Watch out for the MAD, you need WIS, DEX, CHA all at 13 to even multiclass, and you can't dump CON of course. Charisma doesn't have to be any higher than that if you're going mostly Monk however. A sub-build uses Way of Shadows Monk and Darkness/Devil's Sight to be the ultimate Occult Ninja.
1eejit wrote:
Well as I took Moderately Armored I didn't choose Mage Armor and so Fiendish Vigor got its spot. I can also see it being somewhat redundant for Fiend Pact or if you use Agathys though as the THP won't stack on top of each other.
I think you are vastly underestimating Demiplane. It isn't Rope Trick, its Imprisonment crossed with Leomund's Secret Chest. Stick a creature in a demiplane and its not going anywhere until you let it out if it doesn't have the capability of planar travel (and it doesn't actually say you can planar travel from one). Since you can create new demiplanes or reopen previous demiplanes you effectively have infinite storage. . .you just have to remember which plane has that tome or artifact you now have a need for (definitely will want to uniquely group items in demiplanes or stick a unique item in each one so you can remember that your Staff of Power is in the demiplane with the bear statue).
Eldritch Sight is likely undervalued. We haven't seen the DMG and have no idea how common wands and other means are by which to otherwise cast the spell, though the PHB does hint that there is no item economy. Having a warlock with Eldritch Sight in the party removes the need for any other caster to memorize the spell or use up precious spell slots since then you have it at need.
Just a note - CharOp has a standard color format. Sky Blue = Great, Blue = good, Black is okay, Purple = situationally good, but usually not worth it, Red = don't ever take. Green is 'well, maybe useful in some games, but not every game.'
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Warlock 2/ Paladin X. Eldrich blast is all the offense you need, leaving paldin to focus on defense. +Cha to saves, +Warcaster +Resilance (Con) means you can safely run around with your awsome aura spells without fear. Conversly, you can use your warlock slots to power the nice auras.
Warlock 2/ Bard X: Similar to the above, eldrich blast is the only offense you need, leaving bards free to take all the skill and utility spells. Warlocks even come with 2 additional skills.
Warlock 2/Sorcerer X: Twinning is questionable, but you can still do a quickened fireball + eldrich blast. Or 2 quickened eldrich blasts.
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Warlock 6/Sorcerer 14 is quite a nice combo IMO. You get 2 lvl 5 Warlock spells (hello Fireball), Warlock goodies such as Eldritch Blast and, if you can convert Warlock Spell Slots into Sorcery Points, you do better than the Sorcerer capstone.
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
A few other things...
If you use a "daily" invocation, you still get your spell slot back on a short rest and can cast something else with it.
If you find a magic bow (or have a friendly caster with magic weapon), you can have a pact bow.
Crossbow expertise let's you use eldrich blast in melee, but is probably a bit weak overall.
[quote="mellored"]
Warlock 2/ Paladin X. Eldrich blast is all the offense you need, leaving paldin to focus on defense. +Cha to saves, +Warcaster +Resilance (Con) means you can safely run around with your awsome aura spells without fear.[/quoite]
Probably want Pally first on this one; saves overlap but you get an additional Heavy Armor Prof ... right?
Warlock 2/ Bard X: Similar to the above, eldrich blast is the only offense you need, leaving bards free to take all the skill and utility spells. Warlocks even come with 2 additional skills.
ChristopherGroves wrote:
1eejit wrote:
I want to speak up for being a Human Warlock with Moderately Armored. I eventually intend to be a backranker, ranged type, but starting at AC 18 at first level (with moderately armored) vice starting with an AC of 15 at best is huge. I also note that if you take Devil's Sight at second level, you remove the one big human limitation (poor sight) and as noted it synergizes well with darkness.
I think that warcaster and spell sniper as feats are overrated in this guide. They are good but only for specific types of warlock builds. If you intend to do most of your damage by EB and don't intend to use a shield, then IMHO warcaster really isn't needed (yes advantage on concentration saves is nice but hardly essential since a clever warlock can make himself a very poor target to start with), and assuming weapons come with thongs (if you use them at all), you'll almost always have that free hand even with a shield. As for spell sniper, it removes penalties for cover and improved cover which is nice, but is it really worth +2 Cha early? I think not since IMX most cover is normal cover for +2 AC and is situational while +2 Cha gives +1 to attack along with a host of other things. Using the 4e guide, I'd rate both feats as solid blue not light blue (or green using your guide not blue).
-Polaris
N4M8- wrote:
ChristopherGroves wrote:
I think that warcaster and spell sniper as feats are overrated in this guide.
Channel Divinity can get you one minute of CHA to hit w/ your weapon, but you can't use eldritch blast as your extra attack right? Since it's a spell ... so you lose that, unless you're swinging a dex/str weapon. Divine Smite (and improved) would need that to be running as well, else it'd use your non-CHA.
Don't get me wrong, totally workable, but probably less of an impact on a bard (esp a Lore bard). That one may be a gimme.
Polaris wrote:
ChristopherGroves wrote:
Yunru wrote:
How does the Great Old One Hexblade Sentinel build work? That sounds like fun.
Mephi1234 wrote:
Here's a formatting recommendation: choose a different shade of purple. Right now, it's a little difficult to tell blue and purple apart.
Mephi1234 wrote:
ppaladin123 wrote:
Squad wrote:
I posted in the dip guide, but the Tome path gets you a cantrip which can be Shillalegh and that will use your CHA to hit and damage ... so if you're not a pact blade dude, you still can have a ranged AND melee CHA to hit and damage attack.
ChristopherGroves wrote:
N4M8- wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Do Blade Pacts get CHa as their weapon stat? I'm not seeing that anywhere. Magic Initiate could grab you the CHA to attack from Shilleleigh.
IxidorRS wrote:
mellored wrote:
all these people trying so hard to get CHA as their attacking/dmg stat on a bladelock.....You're gonna need high DEX or STR anyway to get enough AC to survive being in the frey so just use that I dont see the problem..
Thank you for taking the time to write this up!
Out of curiousity, how does a Blade Pact Warlock with both Blade Invocations and Great Weapon fighting compare to a Warlock with Agonizing Blast? Do two super-powerful (albiet kind of inaccurate) hits do more damage than 4 moderately-powerful ones?
Mephi1234 wrote:
Lord_Ventnor wrote:
Great Weapon Fighting + 2d6 weapon + hex = 12.5 damage + Str + Cha.
Assuming Str and Cha are equal... (which is already a big negitive).
Blade = 25 + 4 Cha
vs
Blast = 36 + 4 Cha
Pactblade get's ahead with a bonus attack or OA.
37.5 + 6 Cha
mellored wrote:
Devils-Advocate wrote:
mellored wrote:
Since a Warlock is not proficient with polearms, do I need the proficiency to gain polearm mastery? Since the feat is only required to trigger OAs with War Caster Eldritch Blast, a blade boon seems redundant.
the_move wrote:
the_move wrote:
It's worth pointing out that the issue is only at high levels. Otherwise...
1 blast = 1 swing
2 blast = 2 swings
3 blast = 2 swings + 2 cha
4 blast = 
If you can get a bonus attack in there, the blade comes out ahead.
Though blade has Str/Cha issues as well.
Suzume_Stjohn wrote:
mellored wrote:
Polaris wrote:
mellored wrote:
For multi-classing, cleric may be a better option over fighter if you merely want armour.
Fighters get 2 extra hit points, fighting style, heavy armour, and second wind. The fighting style is nice, but not optimal. Archery is likely inferior to eldritch blast. Two-weapon fighting isn't great with spellcasters. Defense and dueling are rather minors bonuses. Presumably you aren't dipping into more than one level and you are starting with that class in order to get the heavy armour.
Clerics get spellcasting and their domain. You can go with a low wisdom and the only main penalty is that you can only prepare one or two spells, plus your domain spells. The three cantrips known help fill in things you will likely be missing as a warlock. Many domains allow heavy armour, so you get this also. Tempest and War also give martial weapons. All also give a useful bonus. Life is a good choice for low-wis folks as you don't need to prepare cure wounds. However, Tempest is also a good option as it gives fog cloud, thunderwave, martial weapons and its domain ability is a nice deterent for folks hitting you are low levels. Obvious spells to memorize would be cure wounds, guilding bolt (at low levels), and the lesser defensive spells. If you have the wisdom, remember that you can cast rituals without expending slots given an extra 10 minutes -- i.e. detect magic, detect poison and disease. Finally, you always have the option of taking different spells after a long rest. I.e. detect magic the next day.
Since you can swap casting spells between your cleric and warlock spell slots, this has a lot of advantages as low-levels. You can cast healing and other cleric spells into your higher level warlock slots -- if you need them cast a higher levels or you feel that you will be able to rest for before needing them -- hence saving your cleric slots for later. Or, you can put your warlock spells into your cleric slots, if you think that you may not make it until the next rest and need some extra firepower in that one fight.
Druid is probably not a great multi-class, since the armour is limited to hide and most class abilities don't come until second. Bards do not get medium armour or shields, but might be an ok class to get some initial skills, spellcasting slots (including cure wounds). Wizard and sorcerer likely aren't worth dipping levels into. Most abilities don't come until higher levels, you don't get any cure wounds spells, hit points are lower, etc. The wizard gets ritual casting and a spellbook, but taking the ritual casting feat is likely a better plan if you need this -- it also scales by level.
N4M8- wrote:
Great guide, thanks for writing it!
Can anybody who has played a warlock comment on the unique spell slot mechanic and how it works out in game?
I'd like to play one but as somebody who really hated encounter/daily mechanics in 4th ed I'm really worried I wont like it and will spend a lot of time just spamming eldritch blast...
I'd imagine our group will take a pretty "normal" number of rests, I know that effects things a lot... We usually did 1-3 fights (depending on difficulty) between resting in past editons, but its really hard to judge when we would have actually had a full hour to "short rest" as its a new mechanic.
wills2009 wrote:
Suzume_Stjohn wrote:
the_move wrote:
I thought the thing behind War Caster, Polearm Mastery, and a glaive is to cast Eldritch Blast as an OA as soon as a monster enters a space within 10 feet (2 squares) of you. With a quarterstaff it would only be 5 feet, so they need to get nearer and large creatures can stay out of reach. Why would I need Crossbow Mastery, since it's the monsters turn, so it can't do an OA.
And I would only need the glaive to get the 10 feet reach, while I do not see a reason of actually using it.
So, does this work without being proficient with the glaive or not?
Seraphex wrote:
the_move wrote:
the_move wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
Thanks!
Polaris wrote:
nesbit wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
Back from my vacation over labor day weekend! I'm going to be going through the thread and trying to respond / update later tonight!
man I really feel like Lock should get just 1 more spell slot, and they should scale up a bit sooner. having only 2 spells all the way to lvl 10-14 depending upon how deep a dip you take is crazy small ><
Thanks to all who answered the Shillelagh/Pact of the Blade question. I think it's still a good cantrip for tome pact, but not quite as nice as I was hoping. And most of all, thanks for not killing me over "Pact of the baffle". (Swype + autocorrect > blade = baffle!)
Witch Bolt is terrible. I calculated average damage over the course of the full minute (unlikely) versus Eldritch Blast, and I assumed that you would resort to Eldritch Blast if you missed with the Witch Bolt and the roll needed to hit doesn't change.
I didn't take into account critical hits (which favors Eldritch Blast) but makes the math icky.
At its most favorable in terms of damage (need 8 to hit) Witch Bolt does 17.88 more damage over 10 rounds. It deals 51% more damage than Eldritch Blast, but only if you need to roll a 20 to hit. (Really its only 33% if criticals are factored in).
Now that's just basic 1st level Eldritch Blast with no help. If you cast Hex instead of Witch Bolt, you do better damage if you need a roll of 2 to 10 to hit. Hex is far easier to maintain than Witch Bolt too (and it switches targets).
If you have Agonizing Blast and Hex, Witch Bolt is never better (even as a 2nd level spell).
Things just continue downhill when you get two blasts. Maybe... Maybe if you have advantage only on the first attack, your opponent can't move, your opponent is hard to hit, and you can be reasonably sure you'll get the full minute of damage; then Witch Bolt might be worth casting.
HeirRaktus wrote:
Moribund wrote:
Crit's are easy math in 5e. (Dice * 1.05)+ mod.
But the main feature of which bolt is that it's auto-damage past the first turn. That gives it a big accuracy boost vs EB.
WB needs to be 1 extra turns to match EB+ Agonize. 2 extra turns and it wins.
That said, EB is not a slot.
mellored wrote:
Elendur wrote:
mellored wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Moribund wrote:
Polaris wrote:
mellored wrote:
Polaris wrote:
mellored wrote:
I know it's questionable about how the spell slots stack, but a 1 level dip into Sorcerer for the Draconic bloodline will easily cover the need for mage armor or light armor, since the 1st level Draconic Bloodline feature sets your AC to be 13 + dex mod. It also gives you 1 more HP per Sorcerer level. So, with a 1 level dip, it's just one more hit point, but that could still be helpful. Also, you get some more cantrips and 1st level spells from the Sorcerer spell list which is slightly different from the Warlock list.
Undrhil wrote:
Undrhil wrote:
Polaris wrote:
mellored wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Yag007 wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
ppaladin123 wrote:
If you're dipping for a Con save bonus, start Sorcerer, they give a Con save bonus, more cantrips (if you needed more), a few more low level spells (and spell slots) and (if you go draconic) effectively Hide Armour, sans all drawbacks (except *maybe* not being able to use a shield). Also if you dip to 3, quickening allows you to cast all your big ones at the start and Eldritch Blast at the same time.
Yunru wrote:
mellored wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Hex doesn't tend to last long period, not being able to maintain concentration spells whilst short resting and all (iirc).
mellored wrote:
Yunru wrote:
A short rest is a period o f downtime, at least 1 hour long,
during which a character does nothing more strenuous
than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.
Yunru wrote:
ppaladin123 wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Would Elves' Trance count as incapacitated for concentration with a long rest? They don't need to sleep normally, but meditate, remaining semiconscious.
1eejit wrote:
Wild Elf Wild Sorcerer GOO Warlock? So many Gs :P
does anyone know how poison works with pact weapons? you should be able to apply it just fine right? flavor-wise warlock16/rogue4 with assassin fits my character the best so I'm def. gonna be poisoning my weapons.
Yag007 wrote:
yeah thats what i figured too, but i wasnt sure since they're something you basically materialize from nothing if there was a special rule or circumstance or something.
so opinions, I'm gonna be doing this Dex bladelock build and using a rapier, and I'll be taking warcaster so I wont need a hand free, no reason not to dual wield then right? I know thirsting blade doesnt apply to the bonus action attack, but I'm not using it for anything anyway and dmg is dmg. (this is taking into acount the eventuality of getting bracers of defense so I wont be using a shield in this instance).
is there any reason NOT to dual wield here? I cant really think of one.
Yag007 wrote:
yeah my characters backstory kinda put me in a tricky situation. From the start I wanted to have a DEX based gish style lock and I made his story up to work around that, so for max dmg bonuses I cant use a 2 hander or even a non-light weapon because STR is gonna be my throw away stat.
I really like the story and personality I came up with so now I don't really wanna change it and can't justify having him play in a way that doesn't really fit that (even if i think MCing into fighter would be stronger).
mellored wrote:
Yag007 wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
i dont know about that. blast warlock should really have Warcaster and spell sniper, and blade warlock should have Warcaster and whatever combat support feat theyre going for be it GWmaster, Polearm master, or what have you. And honestly even with a 4 level dip, you'll have plenty of invocations(7) to get whatever you want out of it. Not to mention even though you said blast warlocks only require 1 invocation you know you know for a FACT that every one of them will pick up one or both of the other two.
that said, a warlock wielding a pact Greataxe and using GWMaster could nova for 8d6+80 if he hit will all 4 attacks now that i think about it, thats pretty bananas.
EDIT: man I'm really annoyed that the dual wielder feat doesnt roll in the two weapon fighting style bonus and allow you to get dmg mods on your bonus action attack. it's like the game is forcing you to take levels in fighter to be effective melee no matter what;;
Mephi1234 wrote:
Squad wrote:
I just can't wrap my head around warlock as a class ;_; taking a 4 level dip to keep it so I get all 5 ability score increases means I'll only have 2 spell slots until level 15, that seems absurd to me. if warlock is only gonna get that many slots they should straight up be able to use them every fight or something lol.
Empowered evocation applies only once per target and nobody provided reason why would it be different for agonizing blast. Same as Mike Mearls said multiple magic missile make only one damage roll it can be said that multiple EB rays count as one hit. Reasoning would be like you don't consider yourself hit three times with fist, becouse three fist knuckle hit you, although every knuckle can miss separately.
Lipfi wrote:
Depending on how far you want to go in another class other than warlock, Rogue 5 has merits in regards to Concentration checks. Since the DC of the concentration check you must make to maintain a concentration spell is the greater of 10 or half the damage you take, halving the damage first greatly extends the default value's applicability. With Uncanny Dodge, if you get hit by an attacker you can see you can react to half the damage. Your DC then would be 10 or half the damage you ended up taking, which has already been halved. So 40 hits you and you halve it to 20, which means your DC is 10 or half of 20--10.
Now all you need is the ability to add your proficiency--what the Resilient feat is for.
With 5E's emphasis on roleplay over pure charop, you should use part 9 for a consideration of relevant Backgrounds and possibly come up with your own list of personality traits/ideals/bonds/flaws.
Mephi1234 wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
My main question about playing a Warlock is this: Besides casting Hex in the first time and EB on every other round for the rest of the day ... what else does the warlock bring into the table? You only have 4 spells per fight, right?
Otakkun wrote:
I can't imagine this survives a rational DM, but...
Permastealthed Halfling Warlocks by 3rd level
wills2009 wrote:
N4M8- wrote:
Otakkun wrote:
I'd like to see suggestions on how to best allocate your stat bonuses, especially for gish types. Should you max out dex/str first, or max out cha? How do you balance the two?
chryx wrote:
mellored wrote:
chryx wrote:
Polaris wrote:
furious_kender wrote:
1eejit wrote:
1eejit wrote:
furious_kender wrote:
furious_kender wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
mellored wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
furious_kender wrote:
I'm a little confused about how Hex works. Why does it last up to 24 hours? Does it just kind of sit there, lingering, if you don't have a target to shift it to?
Tydanosaurus wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
Squad wrote:
So don't cast Dancing Lights in combat then? I fail to see your problem other than "WAH CASTERS GOT NERF". A spell has concentration if your character needs to concentrate on it. Sure it's also a balancing mechanism, but first and formost it's a RPG element.
Tydanosaurus wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Mike Mearls just "clarified" that hex needs to have a new target to keep it up between combats.
Que bag of rats BS
So basically now you have a spell that takes up a slot to cast, lasts "24 hours" once you use level 5 slots for it, but cant actually be maintained for 24 hours unless you
1) place it on a new creature after every combat
2) kill said creature before/during the next combat to allow you to move it to a new target. Thus the bag of disposable hex rats...
3) This is all assuming you never fail a concentration check for the remainder of the day, causing you to lose the spell anyway.
I think this spell needs some re-working...
Mike Mearls "clarification" is neither supported by common, uncommon or irrational sense, or the actual reading of Hex itself. As such, I suggest people just ignore it. It wouldn't be the first time he's been wrong.
wills2009 wrote:
Hex isn't the only spell that works this way, either. Why have a 24 hour duration for a spell that eventually kills the target if you need a constant target? Were they thinking 5th edition would have a lot of 24 hour battles?
If Hex really does work the way Mearls is describing, Warlock is broken. You're basically looking at casting Hex 4 times/short rest and casting EB. Yuck.
-edit- unless you want to kill a bunch of vermin every day, of course....
Rummy wrote:
You and a rival are both trying to schmooze a noble for a lucrative contract. Hex the other guy's Charisma all day every day.
Someone is tailing you. Hex his Wisdom and hide/escape.
You bet against the odds in the dog race that's happening later this evening. Hex the Strength of the favorite and then wait to collect.
You want to make a fool of the sailor who mocked you earlier. Hex his Strength every morning til you get to shore...
You get a glimpse of that thief who keeps vanishing. Before he escapes again, Hex his Dex! You caught him and tied him up. Now you want to spook him a bit and try to get him to talk. You have time: it'll be harder for him to escape with the negatives.
Obviously very situational stuff, but your spell slots ALL automatically scale up, and the only way to give Hex a benefit at higher levels without making it more OP/build-defining/required was to give it a lackluster/RP bonus. It doesn't seem like the extended duration was intended to allow you to keep it floating between encounters unless you planned to encounter the same enemy again.
RAW? Hex your pet rat and sleep with one eye open between fights, I guess.
coldpheasant wrote:
So is this guide going to be updated any more? Because it still rates hold monster red and says it is worse than banishment....and that is, as I noted, is not good advice.
How about Moderately Armored for Chain or Tome warlocks? They have nothing to do with their off-hand, and getting a +2 AC bonus just from using a shield seems hard to pass up.
Mephi1234 wrote:
mrwhoos wrote:
ppaladin123 wrote:
Nachturnus wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Strill wrote:
pauln6 wrote:
I could use some advice about the feat selection for a Human Warlock (Chain Pact) . . .
Moderately Armored for Shield usage
or
Resilience (Con) for Concentration checks and saving throws
or
Spell Sniper so that Eldritch Blast ignores 1/2 and 3/4 covers (and extends its range)
I plan to take one of them at 1st, bump Charisma at 4th and 8th, then take another one of these at 12th. Recommendations? What's most important, and what could I do without?
Edit - I assume if I take Spell Sniper it will be at 1st level, since I don't want to put off getting Eldritch Blast. If not at 1st, then I won't be getting it at all.
Squad wrote:
wills2009 wrote:
Squad wrote:
Strill wrote:
Squad wrote:
Surprised I dont see anyone talking about Hex, Familiar (for Help), Inflict Wounds using Warlock slots for very solid every fight damage (5d10+1d6 on the reg, with advatange, critable).
Squad wrote:
Since I mostly DM, and have no warlocks in my game, I've been wondering how well/poorly warlock jibes with wizard. Since they don't get to mix their spellcasting...
I've been toying with a wizard who has made a pact with a fiend and so multiclasses into warlock.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Conjure Elemental can get you Xorn.
Xorn has a four attack action at +6 to attack. Three of them do 1d6+3 and the fourth does 3d6+3. Also has resistance from nonmagical nonadamntine weapons. If you can learn Terran somehow, you also have a great scout who can move through solid rock and has advantage on Stealth checks in rocky terrain. He's also got AC 19 and a pile of HP.
A Water Elemental is not a bad choice, either. Whelm could lock down two targets.
Everything has a costs a sacrifice.
Two to Three levels of Warlock, grants a Wizard more versatility at the loss of higher Wizard Features. But adds flavour and flexibility.
A Wizard with reasonable Charisma would not be at to much of a Disadvatage. Chainlock or Tomelock probably the most harmonious.
One possible concept is a level 3 Diviner, foreseeing their Pact, a Conjurer meeting a minion of their future Patron, a not so bright Wizards apprentice, who used their charisma to Coast through magic school or an Enchanter. Making a pact, slows the growth of higher level magic, but the first and Second level spell slots are useful and add variety to the Warlocks more limited choices. To be honest sounds like lots of fun characters could be made.
Sailor Diviner, drowning meets a mermaid (really the GOO or Archfey Tethys or Ran), offers the choice of free ticket to the afterlife or power in exchange for serving the Goddess of the Deep)
Charlatan Enchanter, who falls in love with the Succubus Lillayndra (Fiend/ Archfey)
Sage Necromancer who wanted to master the Speak with Dead Spell, he read somewhere that Warlocks could do this. (GOO or Fiend)
High Elven Soldier Conjurer, who wanted to become a Warlock Knight of Summer ( Archfey or Fiend/ GOO ( if Summer is a Leannaun Sidhe))
Half Elven Spy Illusionist, whose Uncle was a Warlock and told him about Invocations such as Misty Visions and Mask of Many Faces (GOO/Archfey)
A wizard would probably have an easier time getting access to rituals from other wizards spell books and scrolls, but they would be at a disadvantage to negotiate. Whereas the Warlock can learn ALL rituals, probably hard to come by, yet they would have an easier time persuading or intimidating or deceiving to get what they want.
IxidorRS wrote:
1eejit wrote:
Worth noting is that Pact of the Chain Warlocks are improved as of the Monster Manual, as the updated monster/familiar entries grant the familiar's owner the Magic Resistance trait - which, incidentally, is not "Resistance to Magic" but advantage on spell saves. Still quite nice, especially considering that the Imp gets it with at-will invisibility.
Pact of the Chain is also useful when a Warlock is forced to use Eldritch Blast in melee - a familiar can use Help to negate disadvantage on the first Eldritch Blast attack roll, giving the Warlock a chance to push the mob away with Repelling Blast before rolling the remaining bolts.
Also, Chains of Carceri, if taken to read character level, has potential value. Sure, it's situational and once per target, but it's also spell-slot free.
One interesting note - if we take the RAW reading that invocations are based on character level, rather than Warlock, the daily spell invocations like Sculptor of Flesh would technically let you cast a spell in a Warlock slot of lower level. Thus could allow characters to cast higher level spells than their caster level would suggest, albeit in a limited fashion; any character could take a 2+ level dip to gain a daily use of Polymorph.
JoCa wrote:
Hence the "if." Obviously, the value changes accordingly to your home game rules, or if the game designers ever actually write clear rules/errata.
Polaris wrote:
I agree on a few points, but strongly disagree with putting Fiendish Vigor up as red. Considering Armor of Agathys, a spell that competes with things like Hex/Shatter/Hold Person got a blue rating, I just can't comprehend this decision. It's not that the 8 hp is going to make you godlike, but it can definitely be (and has been, for me) the difference between life and death in a close encounter, especially at low levels. You can put up eight temporary hp between every single fight. That's about a full extra level of hp, and leaves your spell slots for offense/utility.
I disagree a little with Eyes of the Rune Keeper being red. Casting Comprehend Languages as a ritual takes 10 minutes. Being able to just read something without any casting time is valuable. You also don't have to be touching the writing surface to read with this invocation as you do with CL. CL also has a clause that specifically states it doesn't decode secret messages where this does not. I'm not sure if that means anything, but I thought it worth noting. Although, it is true that it does nothing for people speaking audibly in another language. It seems purple would be the more approrpiate rating.
I don't know if the Eldritch Blast thing was ever in question here, but I know it was elsewhere, so I got this tweeted response.
HeirRaktus wrote:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/524721825108865025
HeirRaktus wrote:
JoCa wrote:
Lharn wrote:
Thanks for putting the guide together. These must be tough to make.
The note on Spell Sniper is bad advice. It suggests possibly waiting until the feat to pick up EB. Aside from it being tough to actually play a low level Warlock without EB just so you can optimize your cantrips latter, there is no reason for this sacrifice. In fact, Spell Sniper gives you the wonderful opportunity to pick up Shocking Grasp. The feat never says a thing about the cantrip being ranged. Take it from the sorcerer list of cantrips and you can use Charisma for the attack. Warlocks conspicuosly lack a touch cantrip. This spell patches up that hole. (it is a big hole for the chainlocks)
Melee locks don't need the patch but they also don't spell snipe.
For ranged locks Shocking Grasp is a great way to get away from the hard to hit frontline brute that clanged adjacent.
Additionally if you are a Chain lock that grabbed Spell Snipe so you can be a sniper from way way back with a close scout to pick out targets... You finally have a touch level scaling cantrip you can cast through that scout. Makes it effective in combat beyond level 7.
Captainpandabear wrote:
SandyStriker wrote:
durntaur wrote:
durntaur wrote:
http://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/50327/10443
I optimized the melee DPR for a Bladelock Gish. My example uses Dragonborn, but it can be done with Half-Elf or the Human Variant. As early as level 6 you can be dishing out an average of 58.79 damage in a single round without a critical strike or 88.45 with a critical strike. That scales up to 97.05 without a critical strike or 137.21 with a critical strike at level 20. The build relies heavily on the Devil's Sight + Darkness trick, and swaps that out for the Foresight spell at later levels. It's Adventurer's League legal too, so you could use this for official organized play.
Just noticed this today:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/529655572862210048
And really, it makes the most sense when comparing to other classes features. Crawford says Invocation prereqs are Warlock level, not character level.
Hi All,
I've been gearing up to DM for my kid in the next few weeks, but I've got a chance to play some Adventure League game this weekend. I'm going to create a Warlock for the pure whim of it. I'm a family man and the best time I have to think about this is when I'm at work. That means I don't have my PHB with me right now, but can always look things up later. I need to create my charcter before Saturday and I'm not sure which way to go. I've been reading all these pages and it seems there is a lot of difference of opinion. Maybe I can just present what I want and you guys can help me out?
I'm Old School DnD and the last edition I played was 3.5. I'm familiar with anything from that era, but nothing past it. I'm trying to learn the rules and not sure on a lot. I'll admit that I haven't evecn really looked at the Feat stuff as I figure my 9 yr old can play the game without it for now. So, I'm really unsure of the feats as I've not read them at all. Also, did I mention I don't have my books with me? I should've brought it, but it's also saver at work to change screens than hide a big book from the boss!
I'm primarily thinking of lower levels for everything. I won't play many AL games and will primarily be my kid's DM.
So, I want to create a LE human Warlock who got his powers from a Fiend. I want to go with the Hexblade idea. So....what do I put my main stats in? I assume 15 goes to the Charisma. What next, though? People say that Con is the best after that, but others say that maybe not for a hexblade? So.....do I go that route? Or not. Overall, Str, Dex, and Con will be important. Those will get the 12-14 slots, but which ones? If I want to go Strength based, do I give that the 14 (which turns into the 15)? I guess it's really just a matter of which gets the +2 and which get the +1. If I went +2 Con I could just give the others +1 and figure it out later.
What gets the 8? What gets the -1? Intelligence? The only other option I can think of is doing it for Strength and going for the Dex based character. I have to say, though, that I like the idea of using a pole arm in combat.
OK....that's another thing that I'm not sure on. Why does everyone say Pole Arms are great with Warlocks? Is it the reach? Is it getting Pole Arm Master feat to get Attack of Op? I'm used to any weapon with reach giving an A of Op if someone moves through. Is that still the case? Also, why does everyone take Glaive? Why not Halberd? They seem the exact same to me. That just seems odd to me. I have to say that I like the idea of taking Repelling Blast when using my pole arm. I'm surprised no one's said anything to that. Someone gets close? Blast them back! Give me an AoOp when the move up again! Lastly, if I am only going to play this character a few times, when can I even first get Pole Arm Master? Recall that this is AL, so no alternate human with starting feats. If I never see me getting past lvl 4, is this something I should even bother thinking about?
If I went hexblade, would I be blasting each turn? Or smacking with weapon? That's one thing I really don't understand. I see people debating back and forth on this. So, if I'm going to be only playing lower levels with this guy, does one seem better than the other? I almost think going Dex based would be better as it will give me AC and let me hurt people when I take a finese weapon. Or....is Eldritch Blast better than trying to stab someone with a dagger every turn? 1d4+2 is an OK average for simple weapons, if you ask me, but maybe not great overall.
I would really appreicate some help in figuring out what I should take for the first 4 levels of this guy...knowing that I'm not going to go much past that (at least at this moment).
LEVEL 1 = What are the best spells to take? I'm thinking cantrips as EB, Blade Ward, and Friends? 1st level would be Armor of Agathys. Sound goodo?
LEVEL 2 = What's the best Eldritch Invo to take? Agonizing Blast seems to be the one I'm looking at. Other spells?
LEVEL 3 = here I pick my hexblade. What else do I get? What shoudl I pick?
LEVEL 4 = Can't recall what it is I get here. Maybe 1st ability point increase?
THANK YOU for any help and advice you guys can give before Saturday Nov 8th. I greatly appreciate your help. I just want to figure this class out.
If anyone is interested, I'm going to play a Warlock from Mulmaster on the Moonsea. Since people of Damaran descent have traditionally been shown as kind of Russian, I'm going to play with a ridiculous accent and go for the Rasputin effect (and large furry eyebrows). I do like the idea of a 6 ft 2" guy with long hair and some sort of large weapon blasting people.
Lastly......as a DM I have a question about the Warlock. My son's party will have 5 players. There needs to be an arcane caster, of course, but no one has picked one yet (3 out of 5 left). I'll be running them through a lot of old 1E and 2E modules set in Greyhawk. Traditionally the arcane caster is the guy who is highly intelligent, can research things, and will know that important Arcane Knowldege skill at a time when it's required. The Warlock can blast things, but doesn't really fill that role. You know there are times when the party has to make that save to catch the crucial plot point. Or someone is researching something to get an adventure hook. Does a party with just a Warlock lose that? Will they be deficient? Does it require someone else who might pick up the slack in that department? For example, a Bard or a Knowledge based Cleric?
JoCa wrote:
Weapons with reach do not give OAs by default, only with the feat.
What I would consider before going much further is:
Do I want to be attacking with my weapon
Do I want to be blasting with EB
Do I want to be versatile enough to do both regularly
If you want to focus on doing melee atttacks, probably a STR+CHA build with DEX after that. Polearm is really quite good. If you're not going past levle 4 or are not human, then you don't care about that so much.
The build that wants to just run Eldritch Blast constantly wants to be CHA first, then some mix of DEX and CON. I went CON higher because I want to be sure I don't lose concentration on Hex.
If you want to be versatile, I'd still say STR+CHA. The reason is STR weapons are typically higher damage. Two-handed weapons especially.
Armor of Agathys is decent if you expect to be in melee a lot. Hex is your biggest damage booster, though.
On Invocations- If you think you're going to stay in melee a lot, consider False Life. It does half of what Armor of Agathys does for you, but you can't boost it to get more THP with higher slots. Hopefully you'll be getting plenty of THP from Dark One's Blessing, though.
Armor of Shadows for at-will Mage Armor also gives you better AC than you can get otherwise (unless Dwarf).
I guess what you take in all situations depends on how versatile you want to be.
Coredump00 wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
Lashan wrote:
@dumtaur: Thanks! I appreciate it.
About the Guide: So....if someone goes Pole Arm Master, it's not worth it to get the knock back on your EB?
Lashan wrote:
Lashan wrote:
Another useful note for Pact of the Chain warlocks is that, according to Mike Mearls in a recent reddit AMA, the familiars also get opportunity attacks.
My DM doesn't allow that, sadly, but if the lead designer says it's so I'm betting most will.
mellored wrote:
I'm not sure if I appreciate the familiar options. What's so great about the special ones? Any guidance on which are better?
The special Familiars can turn invisible and stay invisible at will, so long as they don't attack; this makes them perfect scounts in the early game, and with the Voice of the Chain Master invocation, you basically get Arcane Eye much earlier than normal. Also lets them use the Help action with impunity. Not much else about them if those things don't interest you.
As for which is the best, I'd personally go for imps. Their numerous resistances and immunities, coupled with a high flying speed (in raven form) will at least give them a chance to survive an attack.
.
I was just looking into how a half-orc Fiend hexblade would be a really good combo. If you go with the assigned method of ability scores, you can get Charisma, Strength, and Constitution all at 15's for a starting character. Not bad.....
Mephi1234 wrote:
cranq wrote:
Hi.
So in the guide, and a couple of other times over this thread, Command has come up. Cool spell. Big fan. Only, according to my phb, it is not on the warlock spell list. Only clerics and paladins get it.
Am I missing something?
Undercut wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Polaris wrote:
To put it simply: The generally accepted rule is the definition of the spell itself.
To put it not so simply: Spellcasting stats aren't tied to spells, they're tied to classes. Therefore when Shillelagh refers to "your Spellcasting stat" it can only refer to Charisma.
LunaticSage wrote:
If you picked up shillelagh via the feat or multiclassing, then your spellcasting ability for that spell is wisdom. This is spelled out in the rules for the feat / multiclassing.
Without any specific statement that you must use the ability of the class/classes that have the cantrip in their spell list, you must rely on the spell to determine the spellcasting ability. Because Shillelagh is a druid-only spell, it may be easy to say that WIS is the ability that one uses. But that's not how spells were designed; they were designed with variable abilities for case-by-base application. It's why Fire Bolt uses CHA for sorcerer and INT for wizard.
Magic Initiate specifying the ability score of the "originating" class has no application outside of the feat.
mellored wrote:
malisteen wrote:
LunaticSage wrote:
mellored wrote:
Yunru wrote:
malisteen wrote:
The main reason for a Booklock to take Shillelagh is that it's only a Bonus Action to cast, lasts a minute, and significantly improves the Attack of Opportunity options availiable, at little real cost to the Warlock.
I always cast it early on in the fight, (as, other than Hex, I don't have a huge number of uses for a BA), so that if something does decide to get all up in my grill, I can use my Cha for attack and damage on any AOO's that might result.
It's also handy for anything that, for some reason, just can't be Eldritch Blasted, and needs a Magic Weapon to hit, which is super niche, but not useless.
LessPopMoreFizz wrote:
Can't AOO with Poison Spray, that's the whole point.
No, using Shillelagh and then melee attacking is not a good idea. I'm not trying to tell you that it is, so I'm not sure why you're so intent on convincing me that it isn't. Booklocks are swimming in Cantrips. It doesn't cost a feat, because as a Booklock, you get 3 cantrips from other classes lists. One of these will obviously be Guidance. The rest of the list of cantrips which can be poached which you can't just pick up as you level is... underwhelming. Acid Splash is okay, but do you really need *more* attack cantrips? Same goes for Ray of Frost, Thorn Whip, Sacred Flame et al. Vicious Mockery is interesting if you can't hit things with an attack roll, I guess, but still kind of underwhelming when you have Eldritch Blast. What else is there? Light? Dancing Lights? Druidcraft? Shillelagh is as good a choice as any at that point, because what it does is provide you with a small amount of control over your immediate space, at a relatively minimal action-economy and spellbook space investment. For a build that gets tons of cantrips, minor utility is most of the marginal advantage you're ever going to get.
LessPopMoreFizz wrote:
I would advice against having too many "attack cantrips". Yes, they have all sorts of combat utility, but that is only one aspect of the game; I favor Guidance (broad application), Mending (every party needs a tailor), Prestidigitation (for after you get out of the sewer), Minor Illusion, and others. For combat, EB (of course), fire bolt (because trolls), shocking grasp (because melee).
The flying imp idea wouldn't work as the imps invisibility specifically says "any equipment carried" and a player isnt equipment.
Also the imp and the player have different initiatives so attacking with the warlock would leave you stranded in one spot as youre technically grappled and you just used your action to attack so you couldnt free yourself, the imp couldnt move or drop you until its own turn.
RufusRockbottom wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
"On your adventures, you can add other ritual spells to your Book of Shadows. When you find such a spell, you can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or less than half your warlock level (rounded up) and if you can spare the time to transcribe the spell."
Yunru wrote:
Paladin 2 to be specific: being able to use those Pact Magic spell slots for Divine Smite is goood.
Thanks Mephi1234 for the excellent guide! Warlock has been the first class i tried in this edition and your guide has been very useful
Though i do wish at some point they'll add one additional spell slot, or some (a bit ) more powerful invocations that don't use spell slots. Not all parties have more than one short rest per adventure......or get Leomund's tiny hut! (i went booklock just for it)
FedeII wrote:
daryljason wrote:
Ashur420 wrote:
FedeII wrote:
Ashur420 wrote:
I apologize for the double post, just wanted to point out my opinion on a couple of spells
I think you're misreading or underestimating Conjure Fey. The spell text specifies the summoned Fey can take the form of a beast. That means a Mammoth (CR6) or a Giant Crocodile (CR5)! They're very powerful creatures, with ton of hps, great dmg output and a couple of special checks: i wouldn't dismiss them so easily. Yes it's dangerous, as ALL conjure creatures spells are, but if you are a backrow character i found it's worth it.
Phantasmal Force, it's not so niche, in my opinion. There are A LOT of creatures with low int score, and they HAVE to use (waste) their action to try to counter the illusion. The 10-foot requirement is a bit limiting yes, but you can easily go around it (clouds of insects can blind, adamantium chains can restrain at least the legs). Against medium and large target a simple adamantium cage could serve as a wall of force for a single target. And other senses, like blindsight, can't invalidate the illusions, because the spell text says that the target makes something up to explain any inconsistencies. I'm unsure if Truesight would see through the illusion, (text says "visual illusion", but this is not only visual, it covers all senses and it could simply be an auto-resolve-inconsistency), but if not then Dragon could have a serious problem since they only have a +4 save vs Int! Also, poor Giants.
Last, Flesh to Stone. I find it to be at least quite dependable. Yes, the first save is a true variable, although if you carefully choose your target (definitely nothing huge or more, and no fiends) this can be mitigated a bit. But if you have an average spell DC, let's say 16, and the target has a +3 Con save. It still needs to roll a 13, THREE times. And in the meantime it's restrained. That means at least four turns of restrained condition, if we assume the target is very VERY lucky and succeeds to roll three 13 in a row. Otherwise, five or six restrained turns on average. And sometimes (often if you have DC 17 or more) the target is petrified, which means it's dead. Yes, Con is worse than Int pretty often (assuming Wis is out of question), but IMHO still better than red.
I'm writing to improve the guide, everything is IMHO!
FedeII wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
I'm sorry to say that your points with Phantasmal Force rely on a generous GM. I personally would not allow a spell to duplicate the effects of Blindness/Deafness, Darkness, or other level 2 spells. I would not allow it to perfectly restrain a monster, as Hold Monster can. The only hard mechanic we have is that interacting with it can cause 1d6 damage.
"If you use it correctly, they can't." I'm sorry, but this is a philosophical difference. GMs are the ultimate authority. There is no "if done correctly, the DM can't do anything." You try locking a Giant in a cage, a DM can rule that they try to break it down with a shoulder charge... They would run through the wall, think its breaking it and suffering the 1d6 damage from splinters as a result. But they're still free to move around. As clever as one person can be with coming up with ideas with it, a GM can come up with clever reactions, and that just leads down to a Player versus GM situation. Which is bad for everyone.
I'm sorry, but it seems you're trying to turn the spell into something its not. If your GM lets you get away with things like that, more power to you. I would not.
Mephi1234 wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
Can you add a little bit on what invocations are at the start of your invocation section? How you get them or whatever, never played warlock before so
I don't know when you choose, how many you can choose and etc.
If not, no problem, just would be nice.(Never played a warlock >.< and am curious how they work)
That's all in the Warlock section of the PHB
HermanTheWize wrote:
There's a bunch of invocations at the end of the warlock section. They all say what they do. Some of them have pre'reqs in their descriptions. On the warlock class progression, there's a column for how many you know at a given class level. When that number goes up, pick more invocations until you know that many total. Invocations can be used as much as you want, unless they say otherwise.
Mephi1234 wrote:
I haven't seen anyone mention this, but Barb 1 or 5 is another option for multiclassing with bladelock.
Barbarian doesn't get you heavy armor proficiency, unfortunately. What it does get you is resistance to damage while raging. Armor of Agathys doesn't require concentration, so you can cast it and rage without any drawbacks. While you're raging, you take half damage, so you're likely to keep the temp hp (and the corresponding damage shield) up for longer. Plus, as noted, the bladelock seems designed around a "life leech" style of tanking -- you're likely to take more hits, but you have access to temporary hp from spells and class ablities to let you stay up longer. Damage resistance effectively doubles those temporary hp.
Barb 1 is fine for this, but Barb 3 lets you take Bear totem, which extends the kinds of damage resistance you get. Of course, if you take 3 levels, you may as well take the 4th for the stat points, and the 5th for the extra attack to save an invocation on Thirsting Blade.
It's a damn shame that you can't make Hazirawn your pact blade. >.>
mmchale wrote:
Barbarian adds defense while reducing offense.
A reasonable, but not great, trade.
Due to how Hex and Scorching Ray interact, and how with Sorc meta-magic, you can quicken and empower in the same round, the biggest nova rounds will be for a 2Warlock18Sorc, Dragon bloodline.
With the exception of level 3 and 4, when your multiclass combo will lag behind the purelock due to not having level 2 spells. Starting at level 5 of the multiclass, with L2 spell, Metamagic and the 3 Sorc points:
Quicken+Empower+Scorching Ray+Eldritch Blast + Hex (cast previous round with an Eldritch blast) is so far ahead any other spell combo a purelock can put together. This is not even assuming that the DM allows you to apply your CHA bonus to individual Scorching Rays. (If he does, then this combo is even more out of control). At higher levels, with more Rays and even more turns of this combo due to more Sorc points, this betters Disintegrate etc. easily. (I'll show the math later, on iPhone right now)
V/s Fire resistant or immune enemies, you can just replace Scorching ray with a 2nd Eldritch Blast in above combo, for a slightly less dmg, but still superior combo, to anything the Purelock can do.
Since your standard rounds are dependent on Eldritch blast (as a Cantrip scales by Char level) + Agonizing invocation + Hex, it will be identical for purelock and sor18lock2. If anything, a Sorlock will have more Hex casts available than a purelock.
Can anyone make a case of playing a purelock v/s above combo (a combat argument, ofcourse there can be many RP/flavor reasons)
Sure a Sorcerer 17/Warlock 3 can do just as well but you only asked about 18/2. :P
First, let me say this. The Sorlock thing is a Sorcerer build, not a Warlock one. Sorcerers are taking a dip to steal a blaster option. So, by commparing the two of them, you are not comparing two warlocks, you are comparing the Sorcerer class versus the Warlock class.
1) Sorcerer primarily cares about serving as an artilerty in combat. It lacks a lot of out of combat utility and flexibility. Meanwhile, look at the host of warlock invocations. Effective persistant true sight. Jump and Levitate at will. There's a lot going on here under the hood.
2) A large majority of sorcerer spells tend to be curse-oriented with a host of Save or Suck effects. The Sorlock build is a one trick pony, focusing only on heavy damage. A high level warlock can use Command to force enemies to use up their reaction to flee, and provoke a lot of Attacks of Opertunity from your allies. Your rogue will love you for that one! Later on, you could potentially combine Hex with Bestow Curse, meaning that you can stack huge amount of damage per hit.
3) Pact forms. Blade lets you be a gish, sorcerers do not have an equivalent. Book gives you lots of cantrips from anywhere plus access to every ritual in the game. The sheer utility of having both wizardly and cleric rituals at your fingertips is not small. Chain warlocks are meant to be the summoners, with an eye towards getting Conjure spells and familiars, while sorcerers do not. That's a potentially huge game changer.
4) Sorcerer never gets Foresight, so at high levels, Warlock does a hell of a lot better with attack rolls than the sorcerer.
5) Spell points are a limited resource, and running Hex takes your Concentration. While the Sorlock has a huge nova, its unsustainable as a round by round tactic, and it precludes you using metamagic in any other fashion. Even if you argue that you can use Warlock Pact Magic slots to convert to Sorcery Points, its only a net gain of 1 point over the course of the entire day, plus the loss of higher level slots and spell levels.
The simple fact of the matter is that, yes, the Sorlock can nova for damage that other casters can't approach. That's kinda what sorcerers, in general, do. With the sole exception of eldritch blast, the warlock isn't a heavy damage dealing class by design. They tend to be more of a trickster, controller style class.
But mostly i see sorcerer's as MOAB. Big effect, but only a few times before it burns out. Great if you only have 1 spot where you want to destroy big things.
And warlocks are more like artiallary. A contant barrage of effects raining down. Great if you need to lay waste to a large area of little guys.
Actually, a Valor bard18/fighter 2 with wish (simulacrum), archery style, foresight, and lighting arrow has a better nova.
Pre-cast foresight and lighing arrow. Give your simulacrum a insperation die.
16d8 first arrow.
bonus acion lighting arrow
14d8 multi-attack second arrow.
10d6+40 action surge disinitigrate (scoring ray?).
= 210 * 2 simulacrum = 420
But with foresight, archery style, and insperation, you basicly won't miss. And could potentially crit.
Your simulacrum could miss, but lighing arrow does 1/2 on a miss, so it's not too much of a loss.
mellored wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Let me try this another way - ive just started as a Warlock character - not to power game, but because I've never played this class before and it was a breathe of fresh air when I read through it in 5E.
However, at the cusp of hitting level 3, I'm concerned that going any deeper as Warlock will gimp me vs the option of Multiclassing into a Sorc - by a good 35-40% in the nova rounds.
Im loving RPing my Warlock, and can see having fun with with it going forward even as a pure class, however, I wouldn't mind a 10-15% difference, but 35-40% lower nova rounds is just an absurd power difference.
Majority of my RPing career I've played Clerics and been the support, I'm finally playing a 'blaster' and I frankly don't wanna gimp my chances.
Thank you for your responses still - a summoner 'Chain+Old One lock' or even a 'Tome+Fiend' blastlock, seems very cool and synergized flavor wise, but I just don't see how a purelock can nova better than a Sorlock (or fighterlock, but I'm a bit overdone on melee hybrids, so ignoring that for now).
I just don't see how a purelock can nova better than a Sorlock
mellored wrote:
HermanTheWize wrote:
Ignoring the asinine RP jibes (I honestly could care less what angsty forum trolls think of me and this line of questioning. I know why I've loved and played this game for 25+ years, I don't need the approval of these gits) - sticking with the combat disucssion - how is the DPR of a pure Warlock (non-melee build) or even a pure Sorcerer, better than a Sor18lock2?
They both will be using Eldritch+Agonizing (ideally on a hexed target) as their standard non-nova round, for exactly the same damage, no?
RealSeolfor wrote:
Additionally iirc Metamagic only kicks in at level 3, so a pure Sorcerer (and Sorc 18/Lock 2) will be stronger than a Sorc 2/Lock 18.
At Sorc3/Lock17, you still get your Mystic Arcanum 9.
Honestly, invocations are the mechanical draw for me and you can't get more unless you put levels into the warlock. I could see taking 1 level in a draconic sorcerer for any "pure" warlock build to get Draconic Resilience instead of getting Armor of Shadows; extra cantrips are cool too. In fact, a W19/S1 and W18/S2 still yields 8 invocations plus a level 9 MA; the W19/S1 also yields 5 ASI/feats.
Two levels in sorcerer seem a waste, though, since you don't get Metamagic options, just 2 SP that are worth a single L1 slot. Additionally, you'll never want to convert your warlock slots to SP because your SP pool has a limit based upon level (it's equal to your sorcerer level) and you'd be leaking 3 SP per conversion.
It really depends on how many utilities you want to have at the cost of Eldritch Master. With EB+AB+Hex, the warlock is never hurting in the damage department, so I'd take the non-combat utility any day.
mellored wrote:
i don't see any twisting to use wish to cast simuacrum on yourself at the start of each day.
i'm not talking about making a clone army, just a single copy.
Mephi1234 wrote:
First post!
Just wanted to thank you for this guide, it was extremely helpful!
It's been a while since I played D&D (3.5e some years ago), luckily there are awesome ways nowadays to play online, so my old group got revived.
I mostly played melee/fighter characters previously, so Warlock was completely new to me (in addition to all the 5e changes).
Currently, I'm playing a L5 Tiefling GOO/Book Warlock, and I'm having a (eldritch) blast! It's a fun class, and I really enjoy the RP aspect of it.
So, after several weeks of lurking, I feel like I had to show my appreciation for you (and all the other awesome folks helping out in these forums). You rock!
One quick question though (and I'm sorry if this has been asked before) concerning Awakened Mind.
It's meant to be a one-way communication, correct?
tetrodoxin wrote:
Oh, and other stuff too. Deep gnomes, genasi, and Goliaths. And some other spell stuff for other classes.
Cantrips
Create bonfire (conjuration)
Frostbite (evocation)
Magic stone (transmutation)
Thunderclap (evocation)
2nd Level
Earthbind (transmutation)
4th Level
Elemental bane (transmutation)
6th Level
Investiture of flame (transmutation)
Investiture of ice (transmutation)
Investiture of stone (transmutation)
Investiture of wind (transmutation)
Some of the cantrips and the Investitures look potentially interesting, though sadly the Concentration hurts. Though, this clearly isn't a very warlock focused thing. Time to do some updating!
Yay! Updating!
Question for Warlocks and using Shillelagh - i just noticed the spell description reads, use your 'SpellCasting ability' instead of STR, it doesnt specify WISDOM. Does it mean a Warlock who has picked up the Cantrip through the many ways possible, can cast Shillelagh and use CHA as the bonus modifier for attack and damage with his Quarterstaff?
RealSeolfor wrote:
Thanks for the clarification Kalani. Yes, i was ideally thinking via Tome Warlock. (but then i guess you cant be a Fiend Bladelock, and then being in melee is kinda pointless)
Re other new cantrips in EE:
Until Agonizing blast applies to other Warlock cantrips, there will never be a combat reason to NOT cast Eldritch blast. Correct me if im wrong.
I guess surrounded by 8 poisonous low HP spiders would make Thunderclap better.
As an unrelated aside, im hoping to convince my current GM to give my Tempest Cleric access to Thunderclap cantrip due to the Domain. Its a great flavor match for melee Tempest Clerics like me. Sacred Flame is so arbitary for my Dwarven Tempest Cleric to cast, would much rather hurl a Javelin. (despite the superiority of Sacred Flame vs Javelin at later levels)
RealSeolfor wrote:
RealSeolfor wrote:
Create Bonfire needs an ally. Either a grapple ally, or an allied spell like ensaring strike. Possibly an ally that can push.
It also works well in 5' doors.
mellored wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
They don't. Pact Weapons have to be melee weapons. Rocks aren't really. They're considered a form of ammo. Its as much of a pact weapon as, say, an arrow could be.
Mephi1234 wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
I'm going to say that's taking the rules out of context, in a way that only makes sense if you consider characters to only exist as peices on a grid map. Grappling isn't moving around other creatures, its holding onto them. Completely different situations. By the rules, a halfling can grapple a human. There is no logical way that a halfling can hold a human 5' away from themselves while holding them over a bonfire. The halfling doesn't have arms that long, let alone contine the leverage to force them into the fire from a large distance!
Rules are an abstraction for a reason - because they can't cover every situation perfectly. 5e has left that up to the DM to decide on a case by case basis. Like I said, though, agree to disagree.
Mephi1234 wrote:
As I've said before, Yunru, agree to disagree.
Mephi1234 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Your confusing grapple and restrainted. WoTC chose their words poorly, so it's causing confusion.
Grapple should be called "grab". And looks like this...
It doesn't affect their attacks, or defense in any way.
It only reduces their speed and let's you move them around.
It's also possible to get someone into a fire without you being in it.
Restrained is like this.
You can't defend yourself or attack very easily.
See, you're attempting to create a pair of situations and forcing me to choose between them. That's a false dichotomy. Realistically speaking, arm holds aren't enough to push someone into an open flame. They'll twist and turn away - they'll have full range of motion to the full extent of their arm and shoulder movement, putting them beside the grappler, or even behind them in some cases. Its enough to drag them, but within a large range of area that would let them easily get away from an open bonfire. The truth is that a simple arm grab does not give you enough control.
Now a choke hold or headlock. By the book definition, its a grapple, and not a restraint - they have full use of their arms and weapons. It is enough to properly control a body as you move them around - where the head goes, the body follows. But it requires you to have zero distance between the two combatants.
\
Grapple. Controls movement, doesn't affect attacking or defense.
They are two seperate entities, thus when you draw you 5ft squares you can draw the line between the two. Thus there is no need for DM fiat, the rules already cover it. (And also evident is that they don't share the same space.)
So i've been reading the EE Player's compedium and it seems the 5 Investitures seem like nothing you would ever want to take.
They are all Lvl 6 so you need to use one of your very limited Arcaniums for a single one and they seem very situational, like the Investiture of Stone would do almost nothing against the Howling Wind Cult.
Just gut feeling do any of them seem worth the Single Slot?
Witch Sight [req lvl15]: Not quite true sight, but close enough to make it worthwhile.
can you see with witch Sight invisible Creatures via invisible spell (because its an illusion spell)?
i would say no ^^
Its consistant with about the time other classes get Blindsense, Feral Senses, and other like. The creature is concealed by an illusion spell, and therefore, you should be able to see its form. And its way too high a level of an effect to simply be seeing through a glorified disguise (yes, you still need to make disguise and deception checks when using Alter Self and similar spells). I've never heard of any popular consensus for it to not see through invisibility.
So, -why- do you think it doesn't?
i read witch sight: you see the true form of a creature
i dont read: you see through every illusion
my point of view: you can see every creature in his true form (a dragon or god polymorphed into a bird) who used illusion magic or transmutations magic
is witch sight creature bonded? or can you see through minor illusions too?
Seuleslintan wrote:
Quick question regarding pact of chain familiars. I have a character concept for a Drow Rogue multiclassing with Chain Warlock, my question is it would be possible for him to keep is eyes closed or blinfolded and see through his familiars eyes whilst fighting to negate the sunlight disabillity?
MalaggarNoquar wrote:
For example I have an imp faimiliar and chain master invoccation that allows me to percive through my imps senses and a hooded face totally blinding my own sight thus logically negating any adverse effects of the sunlight. As for familar being easy to kill, how easy is it to kill an imp that has shapeshifted into the form of a fly and is also invisible especially considering most enemies wont even know I have a familiar.
MalaggarNoquar wrote:
Nice one, thanks.
Can you explain how the Voice of the Chain master works in a little more detail, maybe i'm dumb but i'm having a hard time understanding how it works
PHB Pg. 111
"You can comunicate telepathically with your familiar and percieve through your familiar's senses as long as you are on the same plane of existance. Additionally, while percieving through your familiar's senses, you can also speak through your familiar in your own voice, even if your familiar is normally incapable of speech"
Your review of this invocation kind of confuses me because I don't read:
" The actual use for this, however, is able to remote control any summons or mind controlled peon from sniper distance. Simply have your familiar lead the charge, while you're out of the firing range. Truthfully, this remote control option over summons and thralls is the ONLY reason I've really found for focusing on Pact of the Chain in the first place."
I read instead that your familiar you have through your Pact of the Chain ability works as a two way radio. The language of the invocation and the Find Familiar ritual seems very similar in that other than the abilitiy to be a living breathing walkie talkie- i would appreciate if you could enlighten me because i love your guide and have used it to help my first character i've ever played.
I have a question. Why does the RAW say that warlock pact weapons only be melee? Is there a specific thing that would break if they weren't melee weapons? Because if there isin't I plan to rule it can be ranged as well if I DM.
FatherLiir wrote:
I've read in this thread (and elsewhere) that repelling blast can push the target back by 10-feet for each beam of the eldritch blast that hits. For example, if you are 5th level and you hit with both beams then each beam does 1d10 damage (possibly +Cha mod) and pushes the target back by 10-feet, for a total of 20-feet.
That doesn't make sense.
Spells do exactly what they say they do. You might imagine that a fireball in a small closed room would blow out the windows, but the spell description only mentions damage and igniting objects.
Taking the repelling blast in isolation, what it does is 'push the creature up to 10-feet away from you in a straight line'. This means that, when a beam hits, it moves you from point A (the point where the target is standing at the instant the beam hits) to point B (10-feet behind point A).
But the spell has a duration of 'instantaneous'. If you cast the cantrip and can shoot 2, 3 or 4 beams, you cannot shoot the first, see what happens, and then choose to shoot the others in order 2 3 4. The spell is instantaneous! You must, at the instant you cast it, decide on the target for each beam before ANY beam attack is resolved. Once you choose, all beams leave you simultaneously and arrive at their target(s) instantaneously, simultaneously.
The consequence of this is that if 2, 3 or 4 beams hit the same target, all of those beams strike the target at the same time, when the target is standing at point A. Each beam will move the target from point A to point B, simultaneously.
For any single beam, the target is at point A when it hits the target, therefore it will move the target 10-feet back from where it was at the moment that beam struck. At no time is the target standing at point B when any of those beams strikes, therefore the target doesn't get moved from point B, it gets moved from point A.
So if all 4 beams hit a single target, that target will not be pushed 40-feet; it can only be pushed back 10-feet. The beams are instantaneous and simultaneous; they do not wait for one to hit before the next takes its turn!
ArialBlack wrote:
ArialBlack wrote:
If it said something like, 'The target is moved back (up to) 10-feet per beam that hits', then there would be no doubt that 4 hits could push the target back 40-feet.
But spells are not aware. The cannot know that another spell is going to do the same as it, and choose to hold off affecting the target until the other spell (or other beam) is resolved.
At no point was the target struck by a beam when he was at point B, therefore nothing moves him 10-feet back from point B. Every single beam that hit, hit the target when he was at point A. The damage and the push back are also simultaneous effects of each beam.
Even if you visualise a small but finite time between the beams leaving the warlock and striking the target, there is no reason to believe that each beam hits one at a time, with each one waiting until another beam resolves before it chooses to take effect.
This reminds me of a similar situation in 2E with stoneskin. In that edition, the spell totally protected you from the first n attacks (where n was a semi-random number modified by caster level). Each time you were attacked, the attack had no effect but n was reduced by one until it reached zero, ending the spell. Some people cast stoneskin on the same PC twenty times, believing that this would make that PC invulnerable for (n x 20) attacks. But this relied on the idea that the first spell negated the first attacks while the other 19 kind of stepped aside, keeping their powder dry until the first spell was depleted.
The flaw in this idea is that spells are not aware of each other! All twenty spells were reduced by one, every single time they were attacked; n did not stack! Casting more than one on the same creature was just a waste of diamond dust.
The eldritch blast beams cannot take turns. Even if you imagine that each beam hits the target at slightly different times because the target is not a flat board oriented at 90-degrees to the warlock (fair enough), that same logic must also conclude that it takes a finite amount of time for the target to be pushed back 10-feet. And the beams travel much faster (bullet? speed of light?) than the target is pushed back. If you imagine this, then when the first beam hits and starts to move the target back, the next beam will impact before the target has moved an inch. When the 4th beam hits, the target will still hardly have moved, so will hit at one inch behind point A, moving the target to one inch behind point B.
I have no idea of the RAI here. The intention could easily be either way. If the intent is that the target is pushed back 10-feet per beam that hits, the wording should reflect that, and it so easily could be worded that way.
ArialBlack wrote:
I'm not on Twitter. I'm quite happy to read developer's comments about the subject on this thread.
If a developer were to weigh in and say that the intent is that the target gets pushed back by 10-feet per beam that hits, that would be good enough for me. I'd put it down to imprecise wording, and would go with the intent.
Honestly, right now, the intent could be reasonably either way, given the wording.
My first WOTC forum question. Longtime 2e player. Loving 5e. Signed up for the site just to get on this forum.
Here's my question (apologies if it's been addressed in this long thread). I love the Warlock. Especially the flavor. I'm lvl5 now, Pact of the Tome, got my book of ancient secrets ready to rock complete with Find Familar spell. Here's the question - in one of your first posts you describe a Pact of the Chain, Pact of the Tome and a Wizard all with an imp familiar - how does a Tome Pact Warlock get an imp as a familiar? Thanks for reading!
Though I'm not the OP, I am certain that's an error. Tome Pact cannot get the special familiars. That's okay, though, because the owl is pretty useful.
Fiendish Vitality versus Armour of Agathys?
I've just finished my first draught of a new character, and we've been told to make a 5th level PC with one uncommon magic item. I've already chosen my item: Mithral Plate Armour, because I chose Heavy Armour Mastery for the 3 points of damage reduction.
My PC is a Pal2/War3 with the sailor (pirate) background. I intend to be in melee with a greatsword and full plate, and (because it's cool) an imp familiar that keeps up the raven form allowed by its Shapechange ability.
The warlock spells I know are:-
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Minor Illusion (not married to that one)
1st: Armour of Agathys, Hex
2nd: Darkness, Misty Step
The invocations I know are: Devil's Sight, Fiendish Vigour
When reviewing all this, I realised that Armour of Agathys and Fiendish Vigour can't be used together. If I use FV, then I lose it as soon as I cast AoA, because I wouldn't cast AoA if I didn't want the cold damage and I can't have that if I don't choose the THP associated with that spell.
So some tweaks are in order. But, do I lose AoA (what spell replaces it?) or do I lose FV (what invocation replaces it?), bearing in mind what I want my character to do?
Mephi1234 wrote:
Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
ArialBlack wrote:
durntaur wrote:
durntaur wrote:
Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
Nice guide. Some comments on first reading:
- I don't see the wording for Mystic Arcanum as allowing you to choose a lower level spell. It's pretty explicit that you get 1 each of 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level; this means a chain warlock cannot get both Conjure Fey and Create Undead.
- A more visible indication of concentration would be handy. I saw a guide that used the copyright symbol © for that to good effect.
- Ratings for other classes' cantrips would be useful for warlocks choosing Pact of the Tome.
Some thoughts on building your pet collection with Pact of the Chain. Except for the thrall, this list does not include simply charmed beings as they don't actually obey you, they just like you for a while.
- Level 3: You get a familiar as a permanent pet.
- Level 3: You can use Suggestion for a limited pet (1 concentration-based pet for 8 hours, single verbal command control).
- Level 7 (Fey patron): You can get Dominate Beast (1 concentration-based pet for a minute, telepathic control).
- Level 9: You can take Minions of Chaos (Conjure Elemental) (1 concentration-based pet for an hour, verbal control*).
- Level 9 (GOO patron): You can get Dominate Person (1 concentration-based pet for a minute, telepathic control).
- Level 11: You can get Conjure Fey (1 concentration-based pet for an hour, verbal control*) or Create Undead (3 ghouls for 24 hours, telepathic control).
- Level 13: You can get Finger of Death to build an army of zombies (no duration/concentration, verbal control*). Don't know how useful that is!
- Level 14 (GOO patron): You get a permanent charm via Create Thrall (dispellable, telepathic communication). You don't have direct control over your thrall, but probably a great deal of influence.
- Level 15: You can get Dominate Monster (1 concentration-based pet for an hour, telepathic control).
* GOO patron warlocks have telepathic communication when in range and can use Voice of the Chain Master for long-range control. I suspect telepathic communication is not possible with zombies :-)
At high levels, that means you can have your 2 permanent pets (if GOO patron), one concentration-based pet, and if you are so inclined, a small army of ghouls and/or zombies.
I am currently playing a Warlock (only lvl 2 atm), but I have been looking at every spell and seeing what is going to be the best options and basically trying to be as powerful as possible. One thing that I think that I have discovered is that in the right character Armor of Agathys could be one of the most powerful spells in the game. If your warlock is melee or hangs out in melee range then this spell is for you. I also feel it single handedly makes up for just about every problem with the pact of the blade. Basically the plan goes as follows, put it on during the first combat and refresh it when it is done.
This spell scales and at lvl 9, it will be cast at lvl 5 which is 25 temporary hit points and 25 damage to each melee attacker if they hit you and you have temporary hit points, these means that as long as you any temps left from this spell, melee attackers take 25 damage.
Basically either you will do alot (a very lot of damage) to melee attackers or you will not be attacked much in melee, which solves the problem of lower hit points and lack or good armor proficiencies or a shield. If you are worried about not being able to use your other spell slots look at it this way, if you constantly have to recast Armor of Agathys then you are going to be doing an insane amout of damage.
One reason this spell is great for warlocks is that it scales so well with casting it at a higher spell slot which is great because warlocks are casting all their spells at their highest spell lvl known (up to 5).
This spell should pair great with polearm master and sentinel since it discourages melee opponents from attacking you.
With a dip into fighter or paladin you can wear plate armour to get AC18, so that you don't get hit so much and your Armour of Agathys spell lasts longer.
ArialBlack wrote:
I'm confused. How does not getting hit equate with doing more damage, if the damage depends on you getting hit?
svendj wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Hey all,
Thanks for the Guide and all the discussion it really has me wanting to play the class in all forms. I'm new to the forums and was looking over the all the discussion and I have a question. I don't know if I missed it or if it has been addressed elsewhere so I'll ask and hope I'm not just blind. I noticed that Thirsting Blade gives you a second attack much like the fighter's extra attack, in fact the wording is practically identical. This had me thinking would they stack making taking a 5 level dip into Fighter and grabbing Thirsting Blade at 5th when it becomes available allow 3 attacks at level ten (5 fighter/5 Warlock). I think that would make the bladelock a little unbalanced so I'm not sure it would work as I'm thinking, but if it would work I might have to try and use it to my advantage. Anyhow, let me know what you think on this.
jaappleton wrote:
Arlandria wrote:
Ahrimon wrote:
Blade-locks are by no means bad, its just they require alot of work just to come on par with spamming EB... which is sad, cause they have great potential for RP.
personally... in my own campaigns... i errata and fix alot of the classes and race features and tweake'em a bit to try and balance them all, such as the ranger, elemental monk, blade-lock, etc.
i'd talk with your DM if you truly want to be a blade-lock... see if you can ask him if you can work together to maybe tweak some invocations or the blade pact to somehow bring blade-lock to be a bit stronger without requiring so much work and investment just to become "barely on-par" with spamming EB which is just so easy.
personally i would find a way to reward blade-locks by being stronger BECAUSE they are risking themselves in melee versus just sitting in the back spamming EB.
in the chapter that talks about backgrounds (the page before listing all the options) it in bold letters states you can freely mix'n'match the skill proficiencies, equipment package, and tool kit option to create your own custom background, so long as you give a heads up notice to your DM
perhaps you like the the Outlander background but want to have Nature and Stealth rather than Athletics and Survival? well that'd be np in my book.. converse with your DM... honestly everything can be changed by just having a quick chat, most of the stuff is open to interpretation/ can be bent so long as ya'll having fun.
Yunru wrote:
Pandaemonius wrote:
Spamming EB is great and all, but what happens when you are in melee, and EB is at disadvantage...well, that is where the bladelock excels, because tey do not need to worry, they just pound the enemy with their pact blade. In the game I play we used a few of the optional rules in the DMG, one being flanking, which means I can get advantage with my pactblade pretty often and that really makes using my pactblade more powerful over EB (2 advantaged attacks that do 2d6+ 1d6 hex + 4 str vs 2 ranged attacks that do 1d10+ 1d6 hex + 5 cha). Fiend pact helps with being in melee giving THP when I kill things (plus I have fiendish vigor for THP before a fight even starts). Bladelocks are extremely MAD though (unless you go dex and fight with a rapier), because you want good str for attacks, good dex for AC + initiative, good con for concentration and durability, and good cha for EB and skills.
Yunru wrote:
Quick question
Can I use Awakned Mind to cast Vicious Mockery without my lips moving and wihout anyone but the target knowing?
rgoodbb wrote:
Ah OK. Thanks.
That would have been so cool.