Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ZHDarkstar Sep 27, 2014 18:19:34	I'm building a character for organized play. The design goal is to create a versatile support caster that's more of a Swiss Army knife than a straight blaster. The build concept is a variant human Sorcerer (Bronze Draconic) 17/Warlock (GOO/Tome) 3 that has a more utility-focused spell list.   Combat capability will be primarily Eldritch Blasts, with a handful of spells like Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, and Chromatic Sphere for their utility and damage type versatility. Only reason I went with Draconic over Wild Mage is because Wild Surge frequency is completely controlled by DM fiat, which makes it a bigger gamble in a gameplay environment of using one character at many different tables. Until there are AL DM guidelines for Wild Surge frequency, the more thematically appropriate subclass just isn't as mechanically sound for organized play.   I have most of the build done, except for three things. Two of the questions are A vs B, while the third is more of a yes/no question. I'm more concerned with low level viability, as every AL character starts at 1. However, that doesn't mean that I don't have endgame plans for down the road. I'm aware that I lose an ability score increase by not taking a fourth level in Warlock. The main tradeoff of not taking Warlock 4 is eventually getting 9th level spells, albeit at CL 20.   1. What order should I take the classes? SWWWS+ or WWWS+? Doing the warlock levels first makes sense in terms of theme and dip optimization. However starting with a single level of sorcerer before the dip gives a higher starting AC. Would it be worthwhile to use Spell Sniper to pick up Eldritch Blast if I started with the sorcerer level?   2. Vicious Mockery vs Dissonant Whispers? Which would be the better choice as a source of psychic damage? I know that it isn't a common vulnerability, but it's the only type that a raging 3rd level bear totem barbarian isn't resistant to. Plus it's useful with Telepathy/Detect Thoughts to discreetly counter Feign Death.   3. Is there any way of adding a source of radiant damage to my spell list other than using the tome boon to pick up Sacred Flame or waiting until Sorc 11 to learn Sunbeam?
#2 spanglemaker Sep 28, 2014 2:20:03	You are playing an AL character, so levels 1-4 are really super flexible, rebuilding is great.   Level 1 you could use the Magic Initiate Feat to gain Sacred Flame and Guidance, plus you get to learn a level 1 spell which is a free cast once per long rest. Also that spell as it's known can be cast using your spell slots as you are a caster.   Cure Wounds or Sanctuary are likely spell Dr Strange would cast.   Once you level up at 3, become a Tomelock and you could choose to change your feat: Bardic Magic Initiate? Warcaster? Spell sniper? or whatever you want.   Magic Initiates only real limit is that of spellcasting ability, therefore you may want a reasonable wisdom. But Guidance, Sacred Flame and Sanctuary are pretty friendly spells for multiclassing. Cure Wounds does 1d8 plus cleric spellcasting modifier  ( proficiency bonus plus wis modifier) or if cast as a Bard Magic initiate the. 1d8 plus Bard spellcasting modifier (proficiency bonus plus cha modifier).   I personally would start with Warlock, my concept would be that my Patron awakens the Sorcery within.   Level 1 Warlock with Magic Initiate , can provide some magic, face, stealth and party support.   Use rebuilding to get your Warlock to level 4   Important note- purchase your starting equipment using the Maximum Gold option, Warlocks get more gold than Sorcerers and you can purchase an Arcane Focus and a Component Pouch, plus Armor.   level 1 Warlock with studded leather Armor is AC 12+Dex Modifier, Hit Points 8+ Con Modifier, it's AC 11+Dex mod for Leather Armor. Basic 2 Cantrips and 2 spells known- Hex probably and Dissonant Whispers for GOO. Sleep for Fey Pact. Eldritch Blast plus another cantrip. Also for GOO Awakened Mind. 1 spell per Short Rest (take a rest or Eldritch Blast and cantrip at will)- an hour of hex is useful, as long as you maintain concentration, you can hold it for an hour, plus longer at higher levels.   Level 1 Sorcerer, no Armor but Draconic AC is 13+Dex mod. Hit points are 7+Con Basic  4 Cantrips and 2 spells- Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion and Chromatic Orb, Sleep 2 casts per long rest, plus at will cantrips     Warlocks have more HP than Draconic Sorcerers, but need their Armor until they choose to either gain medium Armor proficiency via a feat or multiclassing or take the Armor of Shadows invocation.   Draconic Sorcerers have less HP but have an extra point of AC.   Sorlocks and Bardlocks are pretty tasty, and very different. Bardlocks are the party buffers extraordinaire, the Sorlocks are the big guns, the warlock is a face, a shadow and upto the creativity of the warlock, their pact and their patron.     Vicious Mockery, offers 1d4 psychic damage to one target within range who only needs to hear you. If they fail their will save, then they take Disadvantage on their next attack roll until the end of their next turn. It Scales in damage   Dissonant Whispers does 3d6 psychic to a single target and makes them flee as a reaction if they are able to, if they fail the wisdom save. If they succeed then they only receive half damage and don't have to run away from you. It's a low level fear and scales if you use a higher spell slot.
#3 ZHDarkstar Sep 28, 2014 17:50:47	Abusing the rebuild rules to munchkin your way through the first tier of play is cheating in my book. Those rules exist to allow new players to fix any mistakes made in creation, not as a means of min/maxing.    The original concept was the same as you said, having the Patron unlock the sorcery as a Wild Mage. However, I opened the idea up to change when I realized that Wild Mages are not that viable in AL. If there wa a rule for AL DMs that governed Wild Mage Surge rolling frequency, then I'd consider the original concept.   Having the effectiveness of a class feature--even one thematically linked to chaos--be dictated by the whim of the DM is horribly out of balance for an organized play environment. Mechanically, I should have the chance of having to roll for a WMS when casting a spell regardless of what table I'm playing at. My fix for that would be a secret roll of a d20 that triggers the player's check for a WMS if the DM roll lands between 1 and 1+X, where X is the number of 1st level or higher spells the sorc has cast since the last WMS happened or the sorc completed a long rest.   Magic Initiate for a couple Bard spells could be an option, but I wish we had a better ruling as to whether or not the 1st level spell can be cast in a normal spell slot without the 1/day restriction. Otherwise, it's a feat wasted on this build to pick up a single low-level heal and one cantrip that I was likely going to pick up at War 3 anyways. Plus, it leaves me with more cantrips than I was originally intending on taking.   I think I am going to go with Vicious Mockery over Dissonant Whispers in the long run, either swapping DW out at War 3 or not taking it at all if I go Magic Initiate. As much as I'd like to take a second feat, it's likely not going to happen. I'm already going to be behind on ability increases, so my CHA won't get to 18 until CL 7 and hit 20 at CL 11. Therefore, that 1st level feat has got to be good enough to carry me until the middle of the second tier.
#4 spanglemaker Sep 30, 2014 1:43:01	I agree with you about min/maxing. The rebuild rules are great because they allow starter characters to be explored more fully. The Warlock with its limited spells known and casts ie spell slots, will slow the party down with its need for a short rest.    Magic Initiate gives 2 Cantrips and a First Level Spell which your character knows or has learned   There is some debate about this but it is generally not considered broken to view it as: The spell is cast once at the lowest level without the use of a spell slot- this is refreshed after a long rest. Your character knows this spell, if they are a Spellcaster or have spell slots from their class then they can use one to cast it.   Technically the real choice or difficulty is the specificity of casting the spell at its lowest level.  So if a Warlock  with 3rd or 5th level spell slots had taken Magic Initiate, for Cure Wounds (Bard), yes they could take a short rest to refresh their slots and could use their slots to cast a 1st level Cure Wounds, instead of a more potent spell. A min/maxer would hate that and say that Magic Initiate was under par and may be useful in the early levels but useless later on.    As we are all role players, Magic Initiate is a feat for Flavour.    Barbarians, Battle Masters, Champions, Monks of the Open Hand, Thief, Assasin, are the Class and Archetypes which have no spells or spell slots. 1st Level Rangers and Paladins have no Cantrips and gain spell slots from 2nd level.   If your 1st level Champion, wanted a slight Paladin feel they might take Magic Initiate: Bard- Light, Vicious Mockery - Cure Wounds or Cleric- Guidance, Spare the Dying, - Detect Evil   Hypothetically that character may have intended to become Fighter (Champion) 6 Paladin 4, but during levels 1-4 player realises that they actually want more Paladin but don't like vicious mockery because they are peaceful, dislike hurting and killing but know they have to do so. So that others may live in a better world free from tyranny etc. Character decides that he is a Druid Initiate- Druidcraft, Guidance as Cantrips with Create or Destroy Water   So he reformats and goes Paladin 3 Fighter 1 and at level 10 is Paladin 8, Fighter 2.     It's your choice to play whatever character you want, if your party is made up of all Fighters, a cleric and a Paladin then you may be a limited Band of Brothers, without stealth/trap skills or arcane artillery, a feat like this could be useful. But at the cost of another feat.    I like the choices we have to make, your character gains a skill or ability at the cost or sacrifice of another. You can generalise or specialise and everyone can enjoy play at all levels.   That sacrifice of do I get that feat for flavour and effect or do I munchkin and go for the Ability bonus. It is about survival, if you can survive to 5th level then you are ready for your destiny as the great hero, Sorcerer.    Your Swiss Army Knife concept sounds cool, what invocations are you going to use?    If you take 2 levels of Warlock early, you can change your invocations when you get your 3rd level of Warlock at a higher level, this would give you access to the level dependent invocations. There are so many options
#5 ZHDarkstar Sep 30, 2014 11:25:05	I'm in the mindset that the 1st level restriction is part of the daily slotless casting. If you spend a slot to cast it, it should be cast the same way any multiclass caster would. Considering the versatility that the Ritual Caster feat can give, letting casters use the spell from MI in a normal slot without restriction breaks nothing. This is how I would rewrite the questionable lines:   'You learn that spell. You can cast it at its lowest leveI without expending a spell slot, but you must finish a long rest before you can cast it this way again.'   My stance on the Warlock invocation level debate is that the level requirements are for Warlock level and not character level. It is a class feature, therefore it only progresses when you gain a level in that class. Ch. 6 of the PHB established the Specific vs General when it came to progression of class features in a multiclass character. If it wasn't one of the class features specifically listed as having additional rules, the rule is the sentence that came before it:   "When you gain a new level in a class, you get its features for that level."   The loophole that munchkins exploit is a simple typographical error of omission. I would not let that fly at one of my tables.   Now as for my planned invocations, I'm sticking with Agonizing Blast the entire time. The second one will start as Eldritch Sight before trading for Book of Ancient Secrets when I get my tome. I'm taking the blank book as my trinket, turning it into the book of shadows at the appropriate time.
#6 Oraibi Sep 30, 2014 19:22:47	ZHDarkstar wrote:
#7 ZHDarkstar Sep 30, 2014 22:49:49	Oraibi wrote: