Casting and components as a Bard

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

GrandFalloon

Sep 03, 2015 13:04:13

   I've been playing a Valor Bard, and my character generally goes into battle with sword and shield, tossing inspiration dice everywhere.  Now that I've realized some of my spells are even more awesome than I thought (Vicious Mockery and Fear can grant OA?!  I'll be in my bunk!), I feel like I'm getting away with something.  Let me be sure I have it straight what I can cast, and when.
 

   So, as a Bard, I can use an instrument as an Arcane Focus.  As I understand it, this means as long as I have my flute or lyre, I can pretty much cast anything, using the instrument in place of the Material components.  If I'm playing a song for an audience, I can cast illusions or whatever and it's just part of my performance.

 

   In combat, it's a little trickier.  V is pretty easy.  As long as I can talk, i can cast.  S: can I make the proper Somatic movements with a shield in one hand and a sword in the other?  M: I'm pretty sure is gonna be trouble.  I can't really play music one-handed. I can use a wand or something instead of digging in my pockets for feathers and iron, right?  Do I need to start leaving my shield at home so I can cast Hold Person and Fear?  Does this mean a Longsword and a Strength bump are a good idea for a Valor Bard?

#2

Geistrin

Sep 03, 2015 13:47:12

I wrestled with these same in issues in trying to create a Valor Bard, and couldn't find a good way around having both a weapon and shield, AND be able to cast spells.  I eventually gave up on valor bard and went with Cleric1/Warlock2/Bard X.  I still have great at-will damage from Eldritch Bolt, great AC from armor/shield/dex, and a free hand for casting.  You can also use an arcane focus like a staff in your main hand, but have to put it away when you want to cast a Bard spell.

 

The main downfall is obviously that my Bard progression is 3 levels behind, which means less singular event power in many ways, but more survivability and at-will or short rest powered abilities.

#3

Kron-Karn

Sep 03, 2015 14:10:22

War caster allows you to cast with sword and shield in hand so I imagine the same would go for shield and flute. As far as a harp or other string instruments you kinda need a hand to hold them and a hand to pluck them so that would be tougher.

In 5e does it give you the option of being an oral or a vocal bard. Let's say you sing or resight spoken word poetry. Thus not needing an instrument in hand.

#4

Geistrin

Sep 03, 2015 14:18:28

Kron-Karn wrote:
(Reply to #4)

bid

Geistrin wrote:
(Reply to #5)

Macv12

bid wrote:
(Reply to #4)

Kron-Karn

Geistrin wrote:
(Reply to #4)

Kron-Karn

Geistrin wrote:
(Reply to #4)

Kron-Karn

Geistrin wrote:
#10

jwade80

Sep 03, 2015 19:15:46

I spoke with one of the designers at GenCon when 5e was released and was told that oral/vocal is totally legit. I've been playing my bard that way ever since. Dragonborn warchanter ftw!

Also, I think it's alluded to in the PHB that pounding armor may work too, as it's percussive and drumlike. What does your DM think?

#11

thewok

Sep 03, 2015 21:40:01

Kron-Karn wrote:
#12

GrandFalloon

Sep 03, 2015 22:34:16

thewok wrote:
(Reply to #6)

bid

Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #13)

GrandFalloon

bid wrote:
(Reply to #13)

Macv12

bid wrote:
#16

Kahless

Sep 04, 2015 6:04:46

The human voice is an instrument. I don't see why there should be any reason why simple vocal/oratory should have been dropped from the bard from previous editions. It's pretty standard.

 

(Reply to #15)

bid

Macv12 wrote:
#18

Geistrin

Sep 04, 2015 10:23:09

Assuming you are casting a full VSM spell, are we at a consensus that there is no way to avoid a "useless" hand?  IE, you must have a hand empty or with an instrument.  

 

From my understanding, not even Warcaster gets around this, since even though you can do the S part with Warcaster, you still need a free hand for the M portion on some level.

(Reply to #18)

Kron-Karn

Geistrin wrote:
#20

DemoMonkey

Sep 04, 2015 11:08:27

"From my understanding, not even Warcaster gets around this, since even though you can do the S part with Warcaster, you still need a free hand for the M portion on some level."

 

From Sage advice. The relevant line is the very last one.

 

What’s the amount of interaction needed to use a spellcasting focus? Does it have to be included in the somatic component? If a spell has a material component, you need to handle that component when you cast the spell (PH, 203). The same rule applies if you’re using a spellcasting focus as the material component.


If a spell has a somatic component, you can use the hand that performs the somatic component to also handle the material component. For example, a wizard who uses an orb as a spellcasting focus could hold a quarterstaff in one hand and the orb in the other, and he could cast lightning bolt by using the orb as the spell’s material component and the orb hand to perform the spell’s somatic component.
Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.
If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.

 

 

 

 

 

...

War Caster. It's for Bards too.

#21

Geistrin

Sep 04, 2015 13:09:42

Rather than parse all this info I'm just going to be lazy and ask the experts if this will work:

 

My current character is a Cleric/Warlock/Bard.  He uses a shield with his holy symbol in one hand, and a Staff of Defense in the other with a holster on his back for the staff.  He does not (currently) have the Warcaster feat.

 

1. What is necessary for him to cast a Cleric/Warlock spell of any given combination of VSM? (I'm assuming these will work the same since he has wields a valid focus for each class).

 

2. What is necessary for him to case a Bard spell of any given combination of VSM?  

 

Are there any casting combination where I won't be able to cast one of my spells by simply using my free object interaction to holster my staff for a turn?  Would taking Warcaster make even this unnecessary for all casting combinations?