Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 RubenRybnikk Jan 26, 2015 13:49:03	I am running with a CN Tempst Cleric of Talos in one of my games. Talos is an evil god so I have been considering what evil acts I would need to do to stay in his good graces. I am not opposed to killing, but am trying to think of some other creative options. Has anyone else been in this situation before? Any tips? Thanks!
#2 RubenRybnikk Jan 27, 2015 4:49:43	Bump
#3 Macv12 Jan 27, 2015 5:53:29	First, I believe D&D historically says that a god's follower can be removed from their god by one step on each axis, and not have problems. So if you have a chaotic evil god, your chaotic neutral character wouldn't have to jump through any particular hoops; just make sure you're plenty chaotic and not overtly good.   Second, hammer it out with your DM. The specifics of the god's desires and the metaphysics of your universe will determine what you "have to" do.   Third, break stuff. Priceless statue that the party can't reasonably sell as loot? Bust it. Old towers, knock them down. Kick in doors instead of opening them. Talos likes breaking things. Also, actively defy authority. Make snide comments at guards (not enough to get arrested, of course), help suspects evade capture, tear down wanted signs. Rebellion!
#4 Jamwes Jan 27, 2015 7:30:58	This issue is near and dear to my heart. I'm playing a CN Tempist Cleric of CE Umberlee. One of the things I did was take the Sailor - Bad Reputation (Pirate) background to represent people being fearful of someone who worships an evil god. I can steal stuff or other minor crimes and no one will report me because Umberlee will smite them.   Macv12 has the right of it. One step off with your alignment and work with your DM on what you need to do to stay in Talos' good graces. I'd think that a low level cleric could get away with a lot more than a high level one. As the character grows, either you can embrace the god's evil ways or you can have an interesting character arc over how to remain faithful but not evil. Would make for a good story.   Why does your character worship Talos? My character worships Umberlee out of fear. Must appease the Bitch Goddess or else she'll destroy you. Do you worship Talos because you like destroying things because you like storms or is it out of fear of destruction and storms? Is your goal to wield Talos' might or to temper the destruction? How do you envision your character working with Talos?   Macv12's third point is key, have unique character quirks where you're destructive. Need to remember something from a book? Don't write it down, just tear the page out. Kick in doors. Do what you can to elevate your own power over others. Describe how spells like Shatter affect unattended items and damages/destroys them. Don't care about the excess damage your spells do to unintended targets, for getting caught in your Shatter is the same as being caught out in a storm. Life is short and everything is just one freak destructive storm away from being destroyed anyway.   Here are some lines (with my comments) about Talos from a wiki article that might help with ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talos_(Forgotten_Realms) "Talos is known for elevating mortals to divinity and forcing them to deplete themselves in his service, and for brazen attempts to grab power." Was your character willing being elevated towards divinity or is it against your will? Is Talos running you ragged in his demands and quest for power? What is your relationship with Talos?   "Priests of Talos are fond of extorting sailors and farmers, threatening that Talos will bring destructive storms upon them if they do not placate the angry god." My character does this for Umberlee, always preaching doom if you don't follow.   "[Worshipers] believe in grabbing what they can when they can, for Talos may take their lives at any time. They believe in fearlessly embracing natural disaster; in doing so they demonstrate the power of Talos, who protects them from harm. They preach that only worship of Talos can protect against natural disasters, and at Talos' whim they hurl such disasters at foes." Be impulsive in your actions. A crazy storm could kill you at any time, so go fearless into that dragon's cave. Talos isn't angry when he destroys, he is amused by it. Be the same way when you cast Shatter and other destructive spells.   "...clerics are committed evangelists who seek to gain converts through fear or the enticement of raw power. They are wont to pursue wealth, luxury and wantonness. Many indulge in acts of random or spiteful violence, pillage and banditry." Commonly try to gain converts in a thugish manner. Could always go with the mafia route of, "What a nice house and beautiful family you have, would be a shame if Talos destroyed it all with a storm..."   "The most frequent cleric ritual is the Fury, in which the cleric prays, makes berserk attacks to wreak as much destruction as possible in a small amount of time, then prays again." Do your Fury prayers and describe the destruction. Ever be rewarded with a night at the king's castle for the good deeds you've done across the countryside?  Let loose your inner rock star and tear apart that room as part of your Fury.   I hope these help you come up with ideas for staying CN while worshiping a CE god.
#5 Llenlleawg Jan 27, 2015 9:42:25	Officially, nothing in the current rules says anything about the alignment of clerics related to the gods. In the past, there were such requirements (in AD&D, according to Deities & Demigods, clerics had to be the same alignment as the god, and in 3e, clerics had to be within one "step" of the god's alignment), but even these were loose (so that, e.g. the followers of a god in AD&D could often be of quite varied alignments, and in 3e, in Eberron for example, you could have any alignment regardless of the god's alignment — there might be social effects or repercussions in the church, but not from class abilities as such). In other words, no need to be inflexible about this.   The thing to recall is that gods in most D&D worlds are more concerned with their portfolios than with espousng or spreading a doctrine. In this case, Talos is just all about wanton destruction without thinking about the consequences. For Talos, of course, there is special glee in the suffering he causes. However, you might imagine someone who has simply given up on people and society, a misanthrope who doesn't want to go out of his way to be cruel, but who has been done one bad turn too many from other people. So, he has committed to doing what he wants, when he wants, and particularly chafes when anyone, especially people in authority, tell him what to do. That is, he's Chaotic Neutral. So, he turns to a god who he thinks can help him achieve that end. He's all the chaos and destruction and taking law & order down, without the malice or desire to be cruel or heartless.   For a parallel, you could have a Chaotic Good cleric of a Lawful Neutral god. The cleric acknowledges his god as the Lawgiver, but perhaps he sees his god as the only legitimate Lawgiver, so he resists the pretentions of any earthly power, however mighty, to claim to have dominion over anyone else. On his view, we are all equal before the sacred Law, and so in practice, he promotes the freedom of each person to submit to Law without anyone getting in between him and the Lawgiver. The Lawgiver might be stern, and even occasionally cruel, but we who are his subjects must be kind and forgiving since only the god can fully realize perfect Law.   Anyway, it's just an idea of how players should be, and should be allowed to be, creative with their characters and their characters' alignments, no less because they are playing clerics than any other class.
#6 RubenRybnikk Jan 27, 2015 10:34:38	Wow, that is a lot of really helpful information. My character's relationship with Talos is one of reverence. He admires the destructive power of Talos. He is very selfish. He only does something if it will benefit him. He is not short-sighted though and understands that the long term benefits can often outweigh the short-term cost. His worship is more out of respect than fear. He sees him as a force of nature. Destruction and chaos are part of the natural order of the world. As far as ascension, that really isnt a driving motivation for him. I think I have been playing him too "nice" for the character I want him to be. He is really charismatic, but I think I will play him as a more intimidating figure from now on. Thanks everyone!
#7 BRJN Jan 30, 2015 16:07:51	Talos is supposed to be a bully, to like to break things, to be short-tempered, and to command storms.   If you can find a lightning spell, take it.  This is your direct connection to your god.  Use it to blast things that get under your skin.  Or that make you wait when you want to get moving.   Going the 'Mafia recruiting' route: publicly accost somebody with your sermonizing.  When they blow you off, punch them out.  If they win the fight, follow them home.  Overnight, use that lightning power to damage their house.  Tomorrow in the public square say to the crowds: "See I told you so!"  (Don't do this when it will mess up the group's main goal.  Use it as filler in between adventures.  Of course if you pick the wrong person you will start your own adventure...)