Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Akrean Jan 30, 2015 11:28:57	Hi everyone,   Brand new to both D&D and the forums! (So please ignore my idiocy).   I have been creeping for the past few months (I’ve learned a lot!) as I prepare to play my first campaign in 5e.  It’s a homebrewed campaign based on a demon invasion that has been going on for a bit of time now.   I will be coming in as a 4th level character.  Party is a fighter, cleric, druid, paladin, and sorcerer.    I have a character in my mind that I want to create.  I am not looking to power game or be perfectly optimal, but I don’t want to be a liability to the party.  I just wanted to see what advice you all have.   Character archetype:  Nothing groundbreaking.  The idea is my character is a former charlatan/rogue rough and tumble kind of character (with a terrible guttural british accent).  However, he found love with a bar wrench and she made him go clean.  So he put his skills to use and became a bard (lots of childrens parties with a much nicer british accent!)  Needless to say she left him for a pig farmer soon after.  Instead of singing about other heroes he decides what the hell, might as well go make my own stories as he doesn’t have much else.   Race:  Variant Human with point buy   Stats:  Str: 8     Dex: 14     Cons: 14     Int: 12    Wis: 10   Char: 16   I want to multiclass between a rogue (3 levels at most with arcane trickster) and the rest would go into Bard.  Idea would be to stealth/ sneak attack with a crossbow and then provide support with my spells.)   I know the character would be pretty well rounded in out of combat situations (social and roguish type things) but the game they play is pretty heavily combat oriented.  I know I will be playing a support role, but I still want to be able to stand on the battle field and help out.  This is where my lack of experience totally throws me for a loop.  The numbers are beyond me.  Is this a decent multiclass option or am I gimping myself?  I know I will be behind because I will miss out on both the stat bump at level 4 and I will be majorly behind on my bard spells in the long run.  My other concern is the extremely low AC (If I did it correctly it’s a 14 without studded leather or any spells cast).   Overall, I like the concept of the character and it fills a role that the party needs.  If you think it does work, my other questions would be.  What should I do my 4 levels as? 3 rogue (trickster) 1 bard?  Or 2 rogue, 2 bard?  What would be a useful feat for this character?  Down the road, should I go valor or lore bard? Lastly, any must have 1st level spells I should get for my wizard or bard spells? Thanks for everything!  I appreciate any feedback.
#2 mellored Jan 30, 2015 12:15:28	You can be a sneaky bastard without being a "rogue".  Simply make a bard who takes stealth. Likewise, you can sing and dance without being a "bard".  Simply make a rogue who takes performance.   That said, they mutli-class fine, if not amazing.  Low level bards spells are still good at higher level, and the damage from the rogue helps offset the lack of any damage the bard gets.   Akrean wrote:
#3 WizardV Jan 30, 2015 17:24:55	This is melloreds particular area of expertise. +1 to everything he said. I think he is giving what you asked for, which is a multi class suggestion, rather than what might be optimizing. At fourth level I wouldn't multi-class yet. If you insist on it, rogue 1 gives you expertise which can be out of combat character defining, rogue 2 gives cunning action which is in combat character defining. Depending on which of those you value put the rest in bard.   Bard 4 for the extra ABI is my suggestion. Since it sounds like you want the martial attacker I recommend college of battle, staying pure bard until 5 for the second attack and third level spells. After that you can multi-class rogue if you feel your damage is lacking. You can sneak with stealth skill, high dex, and invisibility/silence as necessary.   If you're going that route consider flopping the charisma to 14, 16 to dex, +2dex from your ABI. Avoid spells that depend on cha. You might also want to take Fighter 1 for archery style.
#4 Ashrym Jan 30, 2015 19:35:59	I would consider skipping the rogue. The origin story sounds like a pure bard with a criminal background. Valor college gives medium armor, shield, and weapon proficiencies; minor with a DEX focus anyway for the xbow use but the extra attack later will be nice. That keeps the ASI and human variant netted a bonus feat for crossbow expert or sharpshooter; you could have both but the -5/+10 can be a pita at that level. If you do go with a multiclass then I would recommend rogue 1 / bard 3 with the rogue taken at first level. That gets you an extra skill proficiency, 3 expertise skills and expertise in thieves tools. It loses the ASI but that's not far away and it won't slow bard progression so much.
#5 UngeheuerLich Jan 31, 2015 3:48:52	I would probably skip rogue altogether too. Bard with criminal background.   But it depends. 3 levels of rogue will give you you 2d6 sneak attack, and cunning action, and a bit more spell versatility. You will be better at some levels and worse on others. When you finally reach level 6 as bard, you have two attacks which would help your damage output in melee.   You may also skip bard altogether and go straight rogue with arcan trickster. With charlatan background and just learn to play some music instruments and call yourself a bard. A little bit of arcane trickster may help to keep up the illusion.   So in the end, you really can´t do wrong at all. Both classes will add to your combat potential well enough to not be a liability in a fight. Rogue 5, Valour Bard 6 should be a very good deal at level 11. 2 Attacks, 3d6 sneak attack, cunning action, uncanny dodge. Medium armor and shields, + the occassional healing word and other useful magic: 4th level spell slots with 3rd level spells.   You seriusly won´t lack behind in uselfulness at most levels. Maybe at level 5 when everyone else does two attacks and you not... but you cans till contribute there well enough.
#6 Akrean Feb 01, 2015 9:56:38	Thanks for all the advice guys.   Seems like the smart thing would be just to play as either a bard or a rogue, instead of multi-classing them.  But whoever said I was smart.  As long as the character can contribute, and it seems that he would be able too.  So 3 rogue with arcane trickster, plus 1 bard.  Then one more rogue, followed by bard up.    Mellored your guide is awesome!   Filled a bit more out, please let me know what you think. Feat-crossbow expert   Cantrips:  Wiz: Mage Hand (legerdemain)  Wiz: Minor Illusion Wiz: Shocking Grasp??? ( Figured maybe a way to escape if they get to close.) Maybe put light here and take friends from the bard list? Bard: Light Bard: Vicious Mockery   1st level spells Wizard: Fog Cloud Grease or Find Familiar ??????? Shield   1st level bard spells: Bane Faerie Fire Dissonant Whispers Tasha Hideous Laughter   Idea would be to go around, use vicious mockery with a cross bow bonus attack (try to get sneak attacks) as my regular combo.  Cast spells as needed.  Use cunning actions as needed.  Pretty much that order.    Only other question, with this build as is, should I make my dex or charisma my 16 stat?  I am going to go 4th level rogue on the next level to up the other to 16.    Thanks again.
#7 mellored Feb 01, 2015 10:02:53	Akrean wrote:
#8 DarthMacho Feb 02, 2015 11:34:59	First off, I love your character's backstory. Creatively, it sounds like a fun character build. Mechanically speaking, I have no advice because I'm just not good at figuring that stuff out. Flavor wise, I feel like College of Valor fits both your character's rough and tumble past and his reformation into an adventuring hero. Whatever powers you choose, I'm guessing you will have fun with this build, Good luck.
#9 BestNorthernDope Feb 03, 2015 4:42:43	Akrean wrote: