Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 imaginari Feb 04, 2015 10:29:55	Hi all, I'm looking for some help and ideas for building an interesting out-of-combat, role-playing concept: the Gambler.   Here is the basics of the concept: Race:  Halfling Feat:  Lucky Class:  Divination Wizard 2 (for Potence) Proficiencies:  Gaming - Dice and/or Cards Background: Criminal   With all the options to effect the outcome of your rolls, they guy could make a living winning at games of chance or cards.  My questions really is, where else to go with the concept and classes, assume this guy makes his living by winning at cards or dice, legally or not?   Here are a couple options I was thinking of: Sorcerer (Wild Magic) - His life is all about taking risks and chances, extending it to magic would be a natural extension.  Either dip Sorcerer 1 just for wild magic (would it affect his wizard spells?), or progress along the path. Warlock (The Cheat) - Warlock invocations for disguising himself at will or minor illusions for changing card or dice numbers would go a long way to winning.  However, what good gambling house doesn't have some sort of detect magic.  Even at will magic detection would be pretty cool to avoid being cheated himself might useful.  Now imagine an invisible familiar to spy on other people's cards. Cleric (Trickster) - The ability to duplicate yourself would certainly add some spice for making a quick break for escape if you're discovered.  A quick dip might be the best way to go, or perhaps the long term.  Alternately, perhaps leveraging divine divination spells? Rogue (Arcane Trickster) - The proficiency boosts to Deception or Sleight of Hand would be great.  Throw in a bit of magic or mage hand to help manipulate the dice or cards, and that could be pretty cool.   What cool classes, skills, powers do you think would make for a good gambler?  What might synergies well, and also be useful for adventuring?   Thanks,   Imaginari
#2 TakeoRZM Feb 04, 2015 15:45:15	I think the charlatan background is better than the criminal, for the equipment you get a set of weighted dice or a deck of marked cards, perfect for a gambler. Halfling does seem like a good race for your concept, although half-elf gets a higher bonus to charisma (to help with deception), and human could get lucky at first level. I like the RP potencial of a warlock, perhaps his pact is part of a gamble that didn't go very well for him...
#3 supreme_slayer Feb 04, 2015 15:54:13	Because it is such an integral part of your character, you could always ask the dm if you could use your expertise in one of your game sets. Though it is likely to gimp you.
#4 DarthMacho Feb 05, 2015 14:07:35	Wow! I love these concepts. Too bad you couldn't get a few players to buy in and create a party of scammers that go around cheating in high stakes games in between their adventures. Perhaps several adventures could spawn from their actions? This way, you could use ALL of your concepts! I feel a little enamored with the idea of a Tricketer Cleric with a Charlatan backround in this role. Having some sort of Trickster God could give his "game" a higher purpose. Please follow up with how this goes. I'd be interested to hear how it turns out.
#5 Lellindil Feb 05, 2015 14:55:26	Lore bard with cutting words.   you can have a partner you work with and use inspiration on them.  Alternatively - and more interestingly you can use cutting words to reduce other peoples checks.   I am considering a "fatespinner" type character and combining Diviner's portent, Lore bards cutting words, help action from an owl familiar and the lucky feat.
#6 Old_Crow Feb 05, 2015 18:04:30	I really like the idea of continuing with Divination Wizard. Illusions and sleight of hand can help you cheat, sure, but knowing your oppenents cards? Or what the next roll of the die will be? That's just better. You don't win every game, but in the long run you have a massive advantage - and it's a lot harder to spot. And if you want to cheat more directly, Prestidigitation probably has you covered.   There's a nice tension within the character, too. He understands that the way to win is to know more than the other guy, and be in a better postion to make  an optimal play. It takes an intellectual, logical mindset to make that work. Yet he's chosen a lifestyle where he's constantly confronted with uncertainty. Sure, that uncertainty is mostly "Did he just cast detect magic? Am I about to get my ass kicked?", but risk is risk. It's a lot like actual professional gamblers and con artists, but distinctly D&D.   I'm probably going to steal this concept, next time I get the chance to roll a wizard.
#7 imaginari Feb 06, 2015 12:18:23	Thanks all for the feedback.  I'm glad folks like the idea and feel free to use it.    Thanks to TakeoRZM for reminding me about the Charlatan background.  The suggestion to also consider human is a good one for lower level character, since they can start with Lucky right away.  I'll have to read up on the Bard options as well, thanks for the suggestion Lellindil.    If I were to modify the start of my character build, I'd probably try this. Race:  Human Feat:  Lucky Class:  Rogue 1, Divination Wizard 2 (for Potence), Rogue 2+ (Arcane Trickster) Proficiencies:  Gaming - Dice and/or Cards Background: Charlatan I liked the image of human who plays cards for the sake of gaming itself.  What's that Sting song, "Shape of My Heart".  In fact he probaly loses on purpose most of the time.  Until of course the big score comes up.  I figured starting as rogue would give him proficiecies in things like slight of hand and deception.  Wizard of course for Potence, and then back to Rogue for Arcane Trickster just because I like magehand and it's large number of possible users when playing games.    I ended up not going the route of Warlock (though there is a lot of potential there) because I actually thought detecting magic would be more useful than using it, and Wizards can do it too.  And prestigitation should cover most minor illusion stuff.   But this is just my take.  What ideas does such a character inspire for you?   dana.
#8 TakeoRZM Feb 06, 2015 18:22:05	A character similar to this that sounds very fun is human+actor feat+warlock, mask of many faces invocation+charlatan background. By level 2 this character would be able to mimic people's appearance and speech and fake documents.  She is be a charlatan that goes from town to town disguising herself as different person each time, selling potions that could cure anything, clothes that belonged to the queen of a kingdom far far away, powerfull tomes of magic, jewels of great value, and that sort of thing, all fake of course. But she made a mistake one day, and was sent to jail. In her despair to escape, she forged a pact. She would regret it tough, for the life of a warlock, was all but free.
#9 imaginari Feb 08, 2015 20:10:19	I finally read through the bard.  And actually it would make for a pretty good gambler.  I could see 2 levels of divination wizard followed by a few bard levels.  Unlike the Rogue, the bard doesn't hit the cool features until 3rd, but the Lore bard gets the skills and expertise that the rogue has, gets a few spells for minor tricks, and more importantly, the Inspring and Cutting Words would be yet another way to control "luck".  I particularly like that, unlike many spells, it won't be as obvious to use around a gambling table.     Are there rules today for casting spells surreptitiously?   Thanks,   imaginari.