Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Plus_1_Spork Oct 21, 2014 21:42:22	Hello all,   I want to create a character like the shepherd from Firefly. I figure I need to go monk first to utilize attack and defensive capability then focus on cleric to either 7, or 9 depending on what domain bonuses are worth it. I'll be doing the life domain as of right now, but could possibly be swayed. After that stretch of cleric the rest of my focus will be in monk til 20. I want to focus on role playing a calm healer that can be surprisingly effective in combat in certain situations by utilizing the monk's strikes combined with touch attack spells. I want to create a character that personifies serenity. (See what I did there?) What advice do y'all have to make that as viable as possible? Thanks in advance.
#2 2Chlorobutanal Oct 22, 2014 0:22:25	Well, touch spells don't really synergize in any way with unarmed strikes, other than the fact that you can use both with an empty hand - which if that was your idea, then that's good.   The biggest problem I forsee with wanting to use both spells and unarmed strikes is that cleric spells rely on Wisdom for their attack rolls and monk attacks rely on either Strength or Dexterity, making double high ability scores somewhat more important for your character.   (An easy way to circumvent this "dual dependency" would be to use the shillelagh spell along with a quarterstaff, which is conveniently a "monk weapon."  You could use all of your Monk class features with the quarterstaff but use your Wisdom score for its attack and damage rolls.  This may not fit with your character concept, though.)   An additional problem is that Clerics generally use shields and heavy armor for their AC while Monks can use absolutely no armor for theirs.  If you're going to fight "like a Monk," in no armor, you'll probably again want two high ability scores: Dexterity and Wisdom.   Let's assume you want to have a high Dex and Wis, and fight completely unarmed and unarmored-  you'll have an AC of 10 + Wisdom + Dexterity, or probably a 15-16 at level 1, scaling up to a respectable 20 eventually.   I'd definitely recommend taking Cleric to 8 or 9, as Divine Strike seems to fit with your build concept and could provide a decent amount of bonus damage (once on your turn).   As far as touch attack spells go, I actually can't think of any that a cleric receives other than inflict wounds.  That being said, if there is a domain that grants contagion at 9th level, it would be worth considering the domain for that spell alone.   As to which sub-classes to pick, I would say that Life domain makes for a good healer (and respectable attacker, due to Divine Strike).  I suppose Way of the Open Hand would be your default pick for a "fighting monk," although the other options of Elements or Shadow are interesting for a Cleric/Monk multiclass if not thematically appropriate for your character.   You'd probably want to maximize your Dexterity score before your Wisdom for such a character, as it would improve your melee attacks, armor class, and initiative (as well as Dexterity saves), as opposed to "just" your spell attacks and armor class (and Wisdom saves).   Given that you're inclined to start as Monk, I would suggest a variant Human with ability score boosts in Wisdom and Dexterity.  You could pick the Healer feat at level 1 to give you quite a bit of healing power at low levels, especially before you have any spells.  Alternatively, you could take a "half feat" to boost your Dexterity (or Wisdom) by an additional +1: I'd recommend Athletic or Observant, off the top of my head.
#3 1eejit Oct 22, 2014 1:29:09	They definitely work well together. You'll only want the same attributes as any other monk, as 2chloro pointed out.    9 levels of Cleric might be worth it just for 5th Level spells, particularly the Contagion spell (which all clerics get). If not I recommend you stop at 8 to maximise ABIs.     Elements Monk might be nice if you feel like flavouring their spell-like abilities as being extra gifts from the Cleric's deity, but honestly any of them should work fine.   Way of Shadow monk with Trickery Domain Cleric could be a fun combo if you feel like playing up Book's mysterious past as a possible former Operative ;)
#4 Plus_1_Spork Oct 22, 2014 22:36:29	I want to be able to do decent healing as an off healer, so maybe the open hand would be the way to go for self sustainability.     I will definitely be using my unarmed strikes as finesse weapons so I will just be focussing on dex and wis.  I figure with inflict wounds and divine strike later on, it could work pretty well.  I like the suggestion of going cleric til 5th level spells.  It would also allow me to benefit from the level 11 bonuses of the monk, though IDK how useful that sanctuary spell like ability would be (flavor wise it's awesome though so I'm favoring it).     I see potential in the shadow monk, to play off on his shady past, but I figured the character, at the time that we see him, was too far gone to really work to embrace that life again.  Which is why I would favor the open hand since I see it as where he was at the time we met him, the base abilities are there, but he isn't the former operative that he might have been.   I feel like I'm starting to really get a grasp for what I want to do, now I just need to figure out what order to level him in.      I appreciate all the info so far though.  Thanks!
#5 Nevvur Oct 22, 2014 23:16:11	Plus_1_Spork wrote:
#6 Yunru Oct 23, 2014 3:27:42	I'd also like to point out that all the good Monk features want you to max Dex and Wis (one to hit with and the other to effect with), leaving you room for a solitairy 1 feat if you MC to a multiple of4, none otherwise. Of course variant human adds a +1 to those numbers.
#7 1eejit Oct 23, 2014 5:35:44	Which isn't that big a deal, monk/clerics get lots of fun toys without feats. If you really want Resilient Con or Warcaster for concentration take it as variant human.
#8 Mechatarrasque Oct 23, 2014 13:31:50	Not what you are looking for, but the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was light cleric/elemental monk for a fast moving blaster.