Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 AdrianLP Feb 01, 2015 9:51:34	I've been doing some Googling, and finding a lot of people saying that in 5e combat healing isn't really needed. This sounds odd to me, are their opponents so weak that they don't need healing during combat?   I wondered what the consensus was on combat healing from this group. Is it necessary? Is replacing the healer with a damage dealer the better choice?   Thoughts?
#2 supreme_slayer Feb 01, 2015 9:58:00	I personally like healing during combat. People keep saying that "It's better to deal damage and only heal when a teammate gets knocked down", but if they get knocked down then they are losing out on potential damage.
#3 mellored Feb 01, 2015 10:14:54	It's definatly not needed.   Hit points are low enough that you usually can finish off an enemy first, therfor preventing the goblin from dealing the damage you just healed. You usually get more bang for your buck with buff spell, like bless. PC's have a few round buffer, so death isn't quite imminent. Heal from 0 means you can get "extra" healing.   There are some spells that are worth using in combat, mainly healing word, heal, and mass heal.  Or if your a life cleric.   That said, out of combat healing is pretty nice to have.  Hit dice give you about 80% of your hit points and only fill up 1/2 each rest.  And given that the game is fairly deadly, the ability to raise dead is invaluble.
#4 TheNovaLord Feb 01, 2015 10:43:56	Yes it is worthwhile Not always or often but on occasion it has been useful
#5 EzechielDantan Feb 01, 2015 10:57:20	It depends on the situation, I'd say usually no, unless one of your allies is about to go down and the fight isn't being rounded up yet. Healing an ally up to his feet or preventing him from going down can be easily the most effective action a healer can take, but it is situational. There are also many other situational reasons to heal, and in less than straightforward battles they are probably not at all that rare.
#6 AaronOfBarbaria Feb 01, 2015 11:00:36	Combat healing is not always necessary, but it is also not always unnecessary.   Sometimes a party member gets hit hard and/or repeatedly and has dropped, or will drop, to 0 HP - and choosing not to heal such a character is inviting character death.   I find that people that say it isn't needed are either meaning A) you don't have to have someone in the party performing healing every round or B) they are so numbers obsessed and blinded by averages and statistical expectations that they have no ability to talk about the game being played in any other fashion - which often involves missing variables like area effect damage counting as failed death saves, so a party member that hits zero HP could easily be dead within a single round.   Then, at high levels, it can become very important to use healing during combat to minimize the amount of time that any party members are susceptible to effects like finger of death, disintegrate, and power word spells.
#7 TheNovaLord Feb 01, 2015 11:17:00	The great news is in 5e you can have healing spells learned in your head, but still use the slots on other things so they aren't wasted
#8 Eggnogfool Feb 01, 2015 12:03:10	seems like 5e in combat healing is most usefully just an occasional 1st level healing word to get some one back on their feet.  As opposed to the 'hp battery' role healers play in mmorpgs.
#9 Ashrym Feb 01, 2015 12:08:21	Healing in combat is usually emergency healing and usually inefficient. Out of combat healing is usually more efficient. Damage mitigation is the better option in combat no matter how it's achieved. IE, it's better to prevent 50 damage with a 3rd-level spell than it is to heal 50 damage with multiple spells. The concept isn't new with 5e but 5e did enable it more than some editions.
#10 Nevvur Feb 01, 2015 13:06:08	Agreed on it being unnecessary, but only in the strictest meaning of the word. You don't need it, but it's a really damn good option to have. Aside from emergency revival, one of my players has twice used it ahead of enemy attacks likely to cause a KO if they landed. He guessed well and kept his allies going, when the KOs would have dragged the fights on even longer, possibly causing the party to spend even more resources. Those spell slots could have been 'wasted' if the attacks missed, but it was a gamble that paid off.   As mentioned by other posters, you'll get a lot more mileage in your adventuring day if you can rely on using HDs and other out-of-combat resources to recover during rests, rather than spending spell slots in combat, but you're better equipped to handle a wider variety of situations if you at least have the option. For instance, in-combat PCs aren't the only ones who might need emergency healing. I think I remember an adventure log posted by Iserith where a bad guy was rolling through town and slaughtering people. One of her players had to decide between chasing the bad guy, and healing the townsfolk he left in his wake.
#11 Psikerlord Feb 02, 2015 4:54:56	AdrianLP wrote:
#12 mellored Feb 02, 2015 6:14:35	Psikerlord wrote:
#13 Captain_Kobold Feb 02, 2015 6:07:20	AdrianLP wrote:
#14 QwertyAzerty Feb 02, 2015 6:23:25	how many time did I saw the barbarian rage and move foward, fall unscounsious then teh cleric (because he cannot delay action) heal the barbarian, but the barbarian already missed his initiative, then the monster simply attack him back to keep him down, forcig the cleric to heal the barbarian again, wasting all his spell on the barbarian that will not come back up on his feet again. when he could have castes guidance bolt instead dealin massive damage and giving the rogue a sneak attack (by giving him advantage)
(Reply to #14) AaronOfBarbaria	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#16 IxidorRS Feb 02, 2015 6:54:35	Action economy is important. If you can attack instead of healing, I think you are usually better off. Situations can arise where healing is necessary. Healing Word gives you an option to heal and attack which is nice. Heal and Mass Heal are also nice economy since they heal and remove certain conditions at the same time.
#17 Tempest_Stormwind Feb 02, 2015 8:35:42	I'm on record as saying that the action economy is supremely important, but that doesn't mean it supercedes absolutely everything. After all, if an enemy drops you, you can't act,, so in this case healing is buying you extra actions (or insuring the ones you have). I still doubt that it'd ve a necessary combat role, and that clerics (et al) should be fighting first - but prepare Cure Wounds just in case.
#18 Touc Feb 02, 2015 10:12:46	The Healbot is a video game mentality.  Having someone who can cure wounds if a player goes down in battle, situational and a good idea but shouldn't happen too often.  As others have noted, a good offense is much better than standing behind a barbarian and patting him/her on the rump each turn with a cure spell.
#19 Tempest_Stormwind Feb 02, 2015 10:57:31	Touc wrote:
(Reply to #19) AaronOfBarbaria	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#21 Tempest_Stormwind Feb 02, 2015 12:42:11	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#22 IxidorRS Feb 02, 2015 13:04:22	I absolutely think in-combat healing is fine. I'd just prefer that healers are doing something else while healing unless they've got nothing available. If they can't reach or get in range to attack an enemy and there's someone who needs healing closeby, Cure Wounds is absolutely fine. But if you can get in and swing, I think Healing Word is the better option to keep whoever is hurt on their feet (or get them back up). Healing and clearing conditions is also a great use of an action.   Out of combat healing can be much more effective, though (unless keeping someone alive in combat is what's going to keep the party from surviving).
#23 Rhenny Feb 02, 2015 15:14:35	When foes have the possibility to target unconscious allies, healing in combat becomes really important.  Thankfully this is situational.   Other times my tempest cleric (which I love playing) can use melee attacks or damage spells or find other things to do in combat to be versatile and effective.
#24 WizardV Feb 02, 2015 21:56:07	If your combats are close to DMG recommendations you probably do not need to optimize your party for max damage prior to character death. If you are questioning whether in combat healing is effective, having a healer is optimal as you crank up the difficulty.   I have a bard character in one game who mostly runs around in combat using the healer feat. Our particular campaign tends to have few encounters but deadly CR. For instance we fought a treant (CR 9) with 5 level 4's. This characters average opportunity cost is a disable spell like Tashas or Phantasmal Force, which has ~50% success rate or attacking which hits <50% of the time for like 7 damage. Given my disable percent chance, if I heal and negate more than half the mobs DPR in a round it's a perfectly valid strategic option to do combat healing. If my concentration is already used, it's far better to heal.   Taking the treant example. I can (and did) have a phantasmal force one of the minions out of the fight after round 1. I have a +5 to hit, so 50% accuracy for 1d8+3. He has 138 HP so I could kill roughly 5% of a treant by melee attacking. Alternatively I can use the healer feat to heal for 11 damage which is roughly half the treants DPR after accounting for our AC.   If our party averages 40 DPR it will take 4 rounds to kill the treat. For these 4 rounds I can cast phantasmal force, use the healer feat on the two people being hit and maybe a third person if any target switching occurs, and maybe refresh phantasmal force if something saved. If my healing extends our survivability by 1 round thats still almost a ~300% damage gain prior to character death. 14->40.   If you search my comment history I detail this a bit better in a post where I was defending the healer feat.
#25 Hepius Feb 03, 2015 6:27:11	I don't like when players go to zero, get healed, and then bounce back into the fight. I want keeping players on their feet to be an important tactic.    When they go to zero they go prone, roll for "permanent" disability", and (if healed) take initiative with disadvantage as they reorient themselves and get back to the fight.   Also, I'll have intelligent monsters finish off a downed player rather than let them back into the fight.  This, of course, depends on combat circumstances.
#26 Archon007 Feb 03, 2015 8:30:18	AdrianLP wrote:
#27 posineg Feb 03, 2015 8:49:01	At low level, Healing is a must to have in your party. Some Good Berries in your pocket help on those nights that your dice are failing you and the DM's dice are on fire.   As a group, we tend to Op. our character but get deadly/near deadly encounters and tend to take a beating. Having a healing ability can realy save a party.