Concentration and temp hp - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Litania84it Sep 07, 2014 6:50:07	Let's take an abjurer with his ward on and a druid in wild shape. They get attacked and damaged. However the attack only eats through their temp hp and not their real ones. Do they still have to take a concentration?
#2 Captain_Kobold Sep 07, 2014 6:59:50	They have both still taken damage, so yes. That the damage came out out of temporary HP rather than actual HP in the case of the abjuror doesn't seem to make a difference in the rules.
(Reply to #2) Pyromantic	I don't agree with Captain_Kobold's reading. PHb page 198: "Temporary hit points aren't actual hit points; they are a buffer against damage, a pool of hit points that protects you from injury." Since it is described as a "buffer against damage" I think that damage reduced by temporary hit points should not be considered damage dealt to the character, in the same manner as damage reduced by resistance, damage reduction such as Heavy Armor Master, and the like.
(Reply to #3) Macv12	Pyromantic wrote:
#5 7he_professor Sep 07, 2014 9:35:39	Litania84it wrote:
#6 Pyromantic Sep 07, 2014 9:43:47	7he_professor wrote:
#7 Lharn Sep 07, 2014 9:51:06	The official answer is yes on the con save, according to Sage Advice over on Enworld. Also apparently guidance and jack of all trades work on initiative rolls.
(Reply to #6) 7he_professor	Pyromantic wrote:
#9 Pyromantic Sep 07, 2014 17:55:49	7he_professor wrote:
#10 ppaladin123 Sep 07, 2014 18:46:17	Lharn wrote:
#11 DMcatts Sep 07, 2014 20:47:07	Copied from an earlier thread: CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:
#12 Jamwes Sep 08, 2014 8:40:38	Pyromantic wrote:
#13 Thoughts_My_Aim Sep 08, 2014 8:59:30	I'd point out that by RAW, you only lose THP when you "take damage", so if damage to THP wasn't considered damage, THP would never be depleted in the first place. Also: there's been an official answer from the devs on this, people are free to houserule, but houseruling they will be.
#14 Novacat Sep 08, 2014 11:52:27	The fact that this thread went as long as it did, and only ended when the devs gave the obvious answer, makes me worried for this community.
#15 Pyromantic Sep 08, 2014 12:03:19	Food for thought: Resistance, or the reduction effect of Heavy Armor Master, also doesn't apply unless you "take damage." Does that mean that if you had to make a concentration check against damage that you were resistant to, you would look at the full damage rather than the halved damage to set the DC? I think the general consensus here would be "no," since the damage is reduced before it is applied. However, notice the similarity between the functional effect of temporary hit points and resistance. Notice also the similarity in the language between a "buffer against damage" and "reduced damage." The question really becomes at what point in the chain of events you say that damage has been taken, and I don't think the text provides a clear explanation of that. Now, it may well be true that temporary hit points are intended to not reduce or eliminate the amount of damage that is considered for concentration checks, and the closest thing we have to an official ruling (is anything official yet in that sense? Not sure) backs up that intention. I'm perfectly happy to treat that as the rule at that point, but I would still contend that the language in the PHb doesn't make that clear.
#16 Pyromantic Sep 08, 2014 12:06:37	Novacat wrote:
#17 Sorxores Sep 08, 2014 12:34:42	from the Arcane Ward: The ward has hit points equal to twice your wizard level + your Intelligence modifier.
#18 Novacat Sep 08, 2014 12:59:37	Sorxores wrote:
#19 Prism Sep 08, 2014 13:10:45	Novacat wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Litania84it

Sep 07, 2014 6:50:07

Let's take an abjurer with his ward on and a druid in wild shape. They get attacked and damaged. However the attack only eats through their temp hp and not their real ones. Do they still have to take a concentration?

Captain_Kobold

Sep 07, 2014 6:59:50

They have both still taken damage, so yes. That the damage came out out of temporary HP rather than actual HP in the case of the abjuror doesn't seem to make a difference in the rules.

(Reply to #2)

Pyromantic

I don't agree with Captain_Kobold's reading. PHb page 198: "Temporary hit points aren't actual hit points; they are a buffer against damage, a pool of hit points that protects you from injury." Since it is described as a "buffer against damage" I think that damage reduced by temporary hit points should not be considered damage dealt to the character, in the same manner as damage reduced by resistance, damage reduction such as Heavy Armor Master, and the like.

(Reply to #3)

Macv12

Pyromantic wrote:

7he_professor

Sep 07, 2014 9:35:39

Litania84it wrote:

Pyromantic

Sep 07, 2014 9:43:47

7he_professor wrote:

Lharn

Sep 07, 2014 9:51:06

The official answer is yes on the con save, according to Sage Advice over on Enworld.

Also apparently guidance and jack of all trades work on initiative rolls.

(Reply to #6)

7he_professor

Pyromantic wrote:

Pyromantic

Sep 07, 2014 17:55:49

7he_professor wrote:

#10

ppaladin123

Sep 07, 2014 18:46:17

Lharn wrote:

#11

DMcatts

Sep 07, 2014 20:47:07

Copied from an earlier thread:

CorwynnMaelstrom wrote:

#12

Jamwes

Sep 08, 2014 8:40:38

Pyromantic wrote:

#13

Thoughts_My_Aim

Sep 08, 2014 8:59:30

I'd point out that by RAW, you only lose THP when you "take damage", so if damage to THP wasn't considered damage, THP would never be depleted in the first place.

Also: there's been an official answer from the devs on this, people are free to houserule, but houseruling they will be.

#14

Novacat

Sep 08, 2014 11:52:27

The fact that this thread went as long as it did, and only ended when the devs gave the obvious answer, makes me worried for this community.

#15

Pyromantic

Sep 08, 2014 12:03:19

Food for thought: Resistance, or the reduction effect of Heavy Armor Master, also doesn't apply unless you "take damage." Does that mean that if you had to make a concentration check against damage that you were resistant to, you would look at the full damage rather than the halved damage to set the DC? I think the general consensus here would be "no," since the damage is reduced before it is applied. However, notice the similarity between the functional effect of temporary hit points and resistance. Notice also the similarity in the language between a "buffer against damage" and "reduced damage." The question really becomes at what point in the chain of events you say that damage has been taken, and I don't think the text provides a clear explanation of that.

Now, it may well be true that temporary hit points are intended to not reduce or eliminate the amount of damage that is considered for concentration checks, and the closest thing we have to an official ruling (is anything official yet in that sense? Not sure) backs up that intention. I'm perfectly happy to treat that as the rule at that point, but I would still contend that the language in the PHb doesn't make that clear.

#16

Pyromantic

Sep 08, 2014 12:06:37

Novacat wrote:

#17

Sorxores

Sep 08, 2014 12:34:42

from the Arcane Ward:
The ward has hit points equal to twice your wizard level + your Intelligence modifier.

#18

Novacat

Sep 08, 2014 12:59:37

Sorxores wrote:

#19

Prism

Sep 08, 2014 13:10:45

Novacat wrote: