Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 imaginari Feb 23, 2015 7:15:25	Hi all,    A lot of people like the Darkness spell, especially in combination with the Warlock's Devil's Sight ability.  In fact, the combination can be quite deadly if the warlock is the only one that can see in the darkness, and his enemies can't.  However one of the major disadvantages of the combination is that other folks in his party can't see in the darkness.  In fact, they are likely as hindered as the badguys.     So this made me think, what if the entire party could see in the darkness, and even cast it.  How cool would that be, to be safe or comfortable traveling at night, and to have a group tactic of layout down cover and then decending on their helpless, blind enemies.  Of course it is not the perfect tactic, but I can imagine it would be quite potent.  What do you think?   However, is the only way to make this tactic viable to have everyone in the party take 2 levels of Warlock; are there any other ways to see through magic darkness?  And how much of an impact would there be if every party member dipped into warlock for two levels, is it worth the delay for other classes?  Though warlock offers many other cool features, on a case by case basis, it probably won't be ideal for fighters, clerics, casters.  But the big question is if the advantage of the party synergy would outway the delay in a other party classes.  Your thoughts?   ~imaginari
#2 Cutlass Feb 23, 2015 20:06:59	My two cents. It arguably doesn't matter which classes you're talking about. The way the ability score increases work you really want to take one of the following options (assuming you want to have a "minimal" dip): 1) A one level dip in a 2nd class. 2) A four level dip in a 2nd class. Basically you have to look carefully at how the level split you want compares to when the character gets ASI's or you will lose one or more of them.
#3 Frozeman Feb 25, 2015 16:44:23	imaginari wrote:
#4 MechaPilot Feb 25, 2015 19:46:39	imaginari wrote:
#5 Archon007 Feb 25, 2015 21:28:51	MechaPilot wrote:
#6 MechaPilot Feb 25, 2015 21:44:37	Archon007 wrote:
#7 Coredump00 Feb 26, 2015 3:30:25	I think if you got everyone to dip 2 levels, it could make for a very strong party.  If all of the PCs get advantage, and all of the monsters get disadvantage..... thats a huge boost.   As far as non-warlocks, I would rule that everyone had disadv, and did not get the countering advantage.  The idea that two blind fighters will be just as effective as two sighted fighters seems kind of absurd.    You also may want to check out:   http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4178076
(Reply to #7) Yunru	Coredump00 wrote:
(Reply to #8) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
#10 Yunru Feb 26, 2015 9:00:18	Which does nothing but slow things down. The dice rolls don't represent a static effectiveness, they represent effectiveness relative to the target thus advantage and disadvantage for two blind people cancel: their hit/miss ratios are similar enough that you can simplify.
#11 Psikerlord Feb 26, 2015 22:24:18	My 2 cents - I changed Devil's Sight to not work in magical darkness. Too strong, too annoying and encouages one-trick-ponyism.
#12 Yunru Feb 27, 2015 1:39:07	Then I hope you also changed it for all those Devils etc. because of your personal dislike.
(Reply to #10) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #12) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
#15 ChrisCarlson Feb 27, 2015 7:58:44	Yunru wrote:
#16 QwertyAzerty Feb 27, 2015 8:09:08	imaginari wrote:
#17 Frozeman Feb 27, 2015 16:51:30	The reason why I only mentioned targeting issues with being potentially an issue with ranged in darkness is because as far as the rules go, being unseen doesn't make you hidden. I don't wan't to get into a big discussion on the logic of this (there are lots of threads about it already), but unless you are hidden as a result of a successful hide check opponents can tell where you are. I say this is questionable at range because a lot of GMs will rule zero this, since the whole "I can tell where he is by the sound of his footsteps and his armour creaking" things really breaks down if you are a hundred feet away.   It can get a little bit silly at times, but I kind of like the equal penalties cancelling out to zero because a fight that takes twice as long because you are hitting half as often isn't really fun for anybody (even if it is a little more realistic) and if I wanted to play battleship, I'd go play that, I don't need it added into my DnD.
#18 ChrisCarlson Feb 27, 2015 17:13:36	Oh, that kind of "parties"...   Bummer. For a second there I had flashbacks to middle school and the methods/excuses we'd manage trying to get in free gropes...
(Reply to #17) Coredump00	Frozeman wrote:
#20 Frozeman Feb 27, 2015 21:56:41	An assumption yes, but I think not a particularly far fetched one... I know the game doesn't have set DCs for things like this, but pinpointing the square of an active combatant shouldn't be all that difficult. If they are actively trying to avoid detection on the other hand, that should be pretty hard. Add to that the fact that having both parties constantly guessing where to attack, and having disadvantage on the rare cases where they guess right, is boring and frustrating for all involved... You can rule the other way, like I said, there have been lot's of discussions about this on these forums about the sillyness of "just knowing" where people are unless they are hiding, but who does that make the gamemore fun for?