Darkness Question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 HeirRaktus Oct 16, 2014 11:26:30	Say I have a human archer positioned in complete darkness. Someone comes along holding a candle fifty feet away. The archer moves to shoot... A heavily obscured area-such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage-blocks vision entireIy. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition.
#2 cowleymen Oct 16, 2014 11:39:29	Depends on if your in magical darkness i think. And the range your shooting from. you might be able to see the light source coming, but being able to hit the person holding the bright bright light in pitch blackness idk
#3 HeirRaktus Oct 16, 2014 11:43:10	The description just says darkness. Darkness creates a heavily obseured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.
#4 Corran21 Oct 16, 2014 11:47:49	I dont have my PHB handy right now, but I will nevertheless try to answer this. By RAW, I think the only way that the archer could actually see the light source, would be if the light source maximum range (so if we are talking about a torch, the range counts the dim light as well, the candle offers only dim light I think) reached the archer's square, changing thus the heavily obscured area to lightly obscured. That is the only way, imo, for the archer to be able to see the light source (which does not make much sense in reality). I don't think that the rules at this point can explain how the archer would be able to spot the light, while he is outside the candle's radius, which would be perfectly possible to spot the light of the candle from far away.
#5 OrwellianHaggis Oct 16, 2014 12:53:11	Corran has the reasoning I'd follow. By RAW no, the archer couldn't target the creature holding the light until the archer was included in the radius of the light source... but using common sense, I'd add "ACCURATELY" to the end of my last sentence. I still think you could attack, by RAW, as if you had been blinded, which is stated in the quoted text.
#6 Clutchbone Oct 16, 2014 13:35:01	The rules are clear; the archer is effectively "blinded" as darkness "blocks" his vision. The rules are also, in this specific case, dumb.
#7 Corran21 Oct 16, 2014 14:00:07	Cast magic missile to attack the darkness!!!
#8 Smashpunk Oct 17, 2014 5:56:23	Clutchbone wrote:
#9 Timborama Oct 17, 2014 6:35:56	And that's what DMs are for. Yay! Everybody wins! Well...except the guy holding the candle...
#10 Smashpunk Oct 17, 2014 7:32:00	Timborama wrote:
#11 mexrage Oct 17, 2014 9:52:21	Timborama wrote:
#12 Yunru Oct 17, 2014 10:19:25	Don't be silly. In this world of magic and dragons the answer is obvious: Darkness is a living, light-consuming thing. You can't see the light from the candle because the darkness has eaten it.
#13 ChrisCarlson Oct 17, 2014 10:24:55	mexrage wrote:
#14 Plaguescarred1 Oct 17, 2014 10:55:24	This problem which i called Impenetrable Darkness before is a glitch in the rules which should really be errata. Being in natural darkness should not leave you unable to see light source and other creatures within. Yes RAW the human archer is blinded, but i don't think many DMs will play it that way due to inconsistency with how vision and light actually work.
#15 Smashpunk Oct 17, 2014 12:24:46	Yunru wrote:
#16 Hailrobonia Oct 17, 2014 15:28:47	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #12) BlinkBlink	Yunru wrote:
#18 Plaguescarred1 Oct 18, 2014 7:44:27	Smashpunk wrote:
#19 BRJN Oct 20, 2014 3:41:08	OP: While the archer is in darkness, his target is not. So he can take a shot. The candle-holder can't shoot back because his light doesn't stretch far enough to make out a target. This is why I finally decided to go Wood Elf over Variant Human: I want to be able to see (somewhat) in the dark. Any game titled Dungeons and Dragons is sure to wind up in badly-lit places.
#20 Coredump00 Oct 20, 2014 7:54:36	This game, like most RPGs is not meant to be a completely self-contained ruleset devoid of any ties to our understanding of reality. The rules don't say you get wet when it is raining either...... Heck, why not just walk on water, rules don't say you sink into water. The rules talk about holding your breath, but never says you actually need to breathe in the first place. There are dozens of these situations... and they arise because the world is a fantasy setting based on the world we know - except for the listed changes. Further the Rules are Written with the knowledge and expectation that a DM will be involved to adjudicate any nuances of a given situation. Do you really think vision on a starlit night is the same as in a closed vault? Do you really think falling onto a stone floor does the same damage as landing on a pile of pillows? etc etc. As fro the OP, the archer can clearly see the target, thus has no vision disadvantage. Trying to read into the rules that non-magical darkness is meant to be some solid barriert to vision is, well, reading a lot into the rules. The torchbearer... it would be a bit trickier.... since the archer is just a few feet out of the Dim Light, I would probably give him a shot at a perception check, with modifiers based on what the archer was wearing
#21 Corran21 Oct 20, 2014 9:40:54	Coredump00 wrote:
#22 Ganymede425 Oct 20, 2014 11:51:54	Plaguescarred wrote:
#23 Fralex Oct 20, 2014 16:48:22	Corran21 wrote:
#24 Danny_Montanny Oct 20, 2014 17:22:31	If you can't understand a simple concept as being in the dark and being able see into an area of light, then you're going to have a lot more problems as a DM than this.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

HeirRaktus

Oct 16, 2014 11:26:30

Say I have a human archer positioned in complete darkness. Someone comes along holding a candle fifty feet away. The archer moves to shoot...

A heavily obscured area-such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage-blocks vision entireIy. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition.

cowleymen

Oct 16, 2014 11:39:29

Depends on if your in magical darkness i think. And the range your shooting from. you might be able to see the light source coming, but being able to hit the person holding the bright bright light in pitch blackness idk

HeirRaktus

Oct 16, 2014 11:43:10

The description just says darkness.

Darkness creates a heavily obseured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.

Corran21

Oct 16, 2014 11:47:49

I dont have my PHB handy right now, but I will nevertheless try to answer this. By RAW, I think the only way that the archer could actually see the light source, would be if the light source maximum range (so if we are talking about a torch, the range counts the dim light as well, the candle offers only dim light I think) reached the archer's square, changing thus the heavily obscured area to lightly obscured. That is the only way, imo, for the archer to be able to see the light source (which does not make much sense in reality). I don't think that the rules at this point can explain how the archer would be able to spot the light, while he is outside the candle's radius, which would be perfectly possible to spot the light of the candle from far away.

OrwellianHaggis

Oct 16, 2014 12:53:11

Corran has the reasoning I'd follow. By RAW no, the archer couldn't target the creature holding the light until the archer was included in the radius of the light source... but using common sense, I'd add "ACCURATELY" to the end of my last sentence. I still think you could attack, by RAW, as if you had been blinded, which is stated in the quoted text.

Clutchbone

Oct 16, 2014 13:35:01

The rules are clear; the archer is effectively "blinded" as darkness "blocks" his vision. The rules are also, in this specific case, dumb.

Corran21

Oct 16, 2014 14:00:07

Cast magic missile to attack the darkness!!!

Smashpunk

Oct 17, 2014 5:56:23

Clutchbone wrote:

Timborama

Oct 17, 2014 6:35:56

And that's what DMs are for. Yay! Everybody wins! Well...except the guy holding the candle...

#10

Smashpunk

Oct 17, 2014 7:32:00

Timborama wrote:

#11

mexrage

Oct 17, 2014 9:52:21

Timborama wrote:

#12

Yunru

Oct 17, 2014 10:19:25

Don't be silly. In this world of magic and dragons the answer is obvious: Darkness is a living, light-consuming thing. You can't see the light from the candle because the darkness has eaten it.

#13

ChrisCarlson

Oct 17, 2014 10:24:55

mexrage wrote:

#14

Plaguescarred1

Oct 17, 2014 10:55:24

This problem which i called Impenetrable Darkness before is a glitch in the rules which should really be errata. Being in natural darkness should not leave you unable to see light source and other creatures within. Yes RAW the human archer is blinded, but i don't think many DMs will play it that way due to inconsistency with how vision and light actually work.

#15

Smashpunk

Oct 17, 2014 12:24:46

Yunru wrote:

#16

Hailrobonia

Oct 17, 2014 15:28:47

Yunru wrote:

(Reply to #12)

BlinkBlink

Yunru wrote:

#18

Plaguescarred1

Oct 18, 2014 7:44:27

Smashpunk wrote:

#19

BRJN

Oct 20, 2014 3:41:08

OP:

While the archer is in darkness, his target is not. So he can take a shot. The candle-holder can't shoot back because his light doesn't stretch far enough to make out a target.

This is why I finally decided to go Wood Elf over Variant Human: I want to be able to see (somewhat) in the dark. Any game titled Dungeons and Dragons is sure to wind up in badly-lit places.

#20

Coredump00

Oct 20, 2014 7:54:36

This game, like most RPGs is *not* meant to be a completely self-contained ruleset devoid of any ties to our understanding of reality. The rules don't say you get wet when it is raining either...... Heck, why not just walk on water, rules don't say you sink into water. The rules talk about holding your breath, but never says you actually need to breathe in the first place.

There are dozens of these situations... and they arise because the world is a fantasy setting based on the world we know - except for the listed changes.

Further the Rules are Written with the knowledge and *expectation* that a DM will be involved to adjudicate any nuances of a given situation.

Do you really think vision on a starlit night is the same as in a closed vault? Do you really think falling onto a stone floor does the same damage as landing on a pile of pillows? etc etc.

As fro the OP, the archer can clearly see the target, thus has no vision disadvantage. Trying to read into the rules that non-magical darkness is meant to be some solid barriert to vision is, well, reading a lot into the rules.
The torchbearer... it would be a bit trickier.... since the archer is just a few feet out of the Dim Light, I would probably give him a shot at a perception check, with modifiers based on what the archer was wearing

#21

Corran21

Oct 20, 2014 9:40:54

Coredump00 wrote:

#22

Ganymede425

Oct 20, 2014 11:51:54

Plaguescarred wrote:

#23

Fralex

Oct 20, 2014 16:48:22

Corran21 wrote:

#24

Danny_Montanny

Oct 20, 2014 17:22:31

If you can't understand a simple concept as being in the dark and being able see into an area of light, then you're going to have a lot more problems as a DM than this.