Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 33Painmaster33 Jun 13, 2015 23:39:45	Thinking about playing a Death cleric ... I have not played a "Evil" Character before, Our DM said he would allow the class so long as i wsnt trying to Murder the party. LOL .   Any i could use some help on How to roleplay as a evil character  any sugestions?   Also should i roll it or Point buy ..either is fine with the DM   What Race?  I was thinking Variant and taking Heavy Armor Mastery.   Any thoughts please or help is Immensly Apperciated
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Jun 14, 2015 0:27:41	The only tip I have for playing evil and not being disruptive: be selfish, be willing to do things good guys would rather avoid, but don't let yourself feel like you have to be waving your evil around for everyone to plainly see - you don't want anyone to think they need to enact heroics to defeat you, afterall.
#3 Yunru Jun 14, 2015 2:58:25	The Sims 3 shows you a good way to act, jst create a Sim with the Evil trait and watch and learn.
#4 Mazzy Jun 14, 2015 3:08:53	I've never seen an evil character work in a campaign. One of two things happens: 1) he crosses the line and eventually the party turns on him. or 2) The player tries so hard to not cause problems for the party that he comes off fairly neutered. He's saving the princess, killing the bad guy, healing the fighter, and sharing the treasure...but he's doing it for selfish reasons! Okay? Pretty sure you could do all that with a neutral or good character...   On paper it sounds great. Like Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Bender on Futurama, or Garak on Deep Space Nine. Thing is, all those shows were controlled by people who could easily create plot reasons to bring them back to the fold and prevent PvP. But when different players are put together, there are no safeguards. Eventually you will either piss off the other players enough to cause a fight, or you'll have to play it so safe you may as well be neutral.   In summation: You can't. You will fail.   As to your other questions: Point Buy because if you roll really well your accomplishments feel less earned and if you roll badly you won't like the character; Variant human with HAM is OP and doesn't impress anyone anymore, so try the Healer feat since it can be used on undead and might earn good will from the party you are causing problems for.
#5 Athanasi Jun 14, 2015 6:09:05	Oh for pete's sake, you don't need to be evil. The DMG specifically says that if there is a non-evil death god in your world, you can worship it and not be evil. Don't already have a non-evil death god? Make one up! It could just be a minor god who works under a good god of war (think valkyrie kind of stuff).
#6 jaappleton Jun 14, 2015 8:30:16	Kelemvor. Worship Kelemvor. You don't have to be evil to worship a Death deity, and not all Death deities are evil. If you're elven, worship Sehanine Moonbow. The Dwarves have a Deity for it, too... She also deals in Runes. Forget her name.
#7 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 14, 2015 8:56:50	Beat advice I ever heard about this: Just because your character is evil or not a team player doesn't mean that *you* should be evil or a poor team player.
#8 JackOfAllTirades Jun 14, 2015 9:56:38	I'd agree with the poster above who noted that lots of death gods are neutral.   Death is impartial, and so should be his/her emissaries in the world.
#9 GladiusLegis Jun 14, 2015 10:21:46	jaappleton wrote:
(Reply to #9) Mechatarrasque	GladiusLegis wrote:
#11 daspian Jun 14, 2015 16:48:36	mmm definitely agree with above posters, play a Doomguide, (a death cleric of Kelemvor) basically a cleric who fights the undead with his own deity's version of death domain justice. you could flavor it as your god allows you to wield the powers to animate the undead, justifying it as a necessary power to combat those who abuse it and are evil and corrupt such as necro's and liches etc. or you could simply go the straight and narrow way and ask your DM to switch out some of those recommended spells or class traits that affect animating/controlling undead, for something else entirely.
#12 Macv12 Jun 14, 2015 17:40:03	Bah. You can be evil. But it depends on what "kind" of evil you want. Why do you want to be evil, exactly?   Like, do you want to be an "evil mastermind," a troll, or just be evil because evil is sexy? The first probably won't work and the second is generally a bad idea, but sexiness is totally doable.   I'm currently playing a drow death cleric actually (aka "double jeopardy"). Not "evil," but loaded with evil flavor. It can work. Our party is currently trying to track down some necromancers to deal with an apocalyptic plot (same old same old); and everyone except me is trying to find a way to resurrect the party member I recently killed. It was a great scene, too. We're having fun with it.   From my own experience, here's what we did to make that work.     Meta the crap out of it. Get all the players in on it, don't do anything unless they buy in to it. There was this perfect moment in combat where I was 100% guaranteed able to kill afore-mentioned character, and my character had justification to. So I said "I wonder if I would just kill her." That player and the DM went to talk options for around 10 minutes. I and the other players talked about how to react and if they thought this was interesting. Everyone agreed, and we went through with it. It's not like improvising some conversation with the barkeep. You will take yourself out of the moment. If that's a problem, choose a less risky options.   It wouldn't have happened if the other player said no. In our case, we had established long ago during Session 0 that this player was okay with their current character dying, and that's why I even thought to suggest it.   Don't plot with the DM behind other peoples' backs to "surprise" them with your villainy. Unless it's an evil campaign where everyone is supposed to be backstabbing each other. Your role doesn't change from any other game: you're there to cooperate with friends to have fun.   Lay ground rules. Continuation of above. Don't let the party's introduction to your kleptomania be their stuff disappearing. My first rogue tried this. I thought it was quirky at the time, and it wasn't.   One big thing you'll need to deal with as a death cleric: "I am not a healer." This is the same hurdle I came across, except in 4e, where my role was decided by my class. 4e clerics are designated "leaders." I dealt with it by taking offensively-oriented stuff, to trip up enemies or enable allies to kill them faster, and having almost no basic healing. In 5e you don't even have to do that. Just being a cleric doesn't pin you to one particular archetype. But make sure everyone knows that you're playing that way, and they shouldn't expect you to heal more than a barbarian or sorcerer would. The party can compensate with other resources (feats, spells, potions). Same for resurrection. A party without a cleric would find other options. Make it clear waaaaay beforehand that you don't want to do resurrection.   (But leave the option on the table. Roleplaying a strong character change is even more dramatically rewarding than sticking adamantly to the character you started the game with. That scene where I killed a PC? I played my character feeling guilty and lost, later dropping the "no resurrection" aspect of their faith. This was important for the rest of the party to not execute me. But the guilt and change is what made that scene good. Otherwise I'd now be dead or an NPC.)   But if you do take healing spells and use them, don't fall into the trap of not healing a party member just because they're at 0 HP. It doesn't really make sense, anyway.   Look evil. Because evil is sexy. Looking evil is more important than being evil. Do inconsequential things to establish that you're a cool black-wearin' not-carin' bad guy. Then you don't need to spend big moments establishing that you're bad, because you've already done that. You can do with those moments whatever is best or most dramatic for the story, rather than just your character or the chaos they can cause.   I did this by carrying a scythe (because of how 4e works, it was actually one of my better options), embellishing my attack descriptions, and taking a lot of fear-based moves. Also maxed my Intimidation. Basically I had an aura of "don't mess with this person" that I could weaponize, which let me feel "evil" in combat and out without doing anything disruptive.   You might describe your attacks as doing no physical harm, but torturing the target until their heart gives out. Use things like Ray of Enfeeblement or Phantasmal Killer for that. Or describe the silent chill that spreads around you whenever something dies at your hand. In particular (and I got a lot of mileage out of this), have your character suggest evil-sounding solutions in-character ("these bandits attacked us, their lives are forfeit"), and let players know out-of-character that you're fine with whatever the party decides. My character is always polite and considers themself a guest on the party's mission, so I have a reason in-character to only offer suggestions and not always follow through.   Don't actually be evil. Optional. Kind of a cop-out, but this is related to the above. Have the aesthetics of being evil without the effects. I took a homebrew deity that primarily dealt with fate and seeing the future, with death being one aspect of it. I spent a lot of time with the tenets of the religion, how my character saw them, what happened in their life to form their views, etc, so that I could have the evil aspects I liked but still justify why they're a good person who helps their friends and saves the world. From the opposite perspective, I justified how a good and typical adventurer can have all these seemingly-evil aspects and beliefs.     Don't take yourself too seriously. If you're trying to constantly be cool and evil, and impress everyone else with your coolness, it can be overbearing. Let yourself be the butt of jokes, as much as anyone else is. Don't try to protect your "image."   If the campaign atmosphere is very light, you can get away with more. But if people want a serious roleplayed story, don't force their characters to accept over-the-top evilness.       As for background and stuff. My own take on the "death" aspect was that my god foresaw fate and laid out the proper path, including everyone's death. People should accept death because it's inevitable, otherwise they're ust making themselves miserable for nothing. That includes my character, so they get into situations that can easily end in death, because it doesn't matter to them anyway. (This is great for keeping the action level high, btw.)   A Lawful Evil archetype is the easiest to justify. You can have a code of honor that keeps you from doing truly evil stuff, or promise to put the party's needs above yours or your church's until the current world-ending threat is stopped, or be bound by a pact to obey a certain party member, etc.     Also, you can't take Heavy Armor Mastery because death clerics don't get heavy armor. Using Finesse or ranged weapons is a good idea, since you need DEX for your AC (unless you multiclass or spend a feat), WIS for your cantrips and spells that your features boost, and CON for surviving and any concentration spells you have. I'd roll if everyone else is rolling. If you roll crap, everyone else also has weird stat layouts and at least you won't be the only one. If you only have one good stat, go human with Magic Initiate to take Shillelagh, and you won't even notice. But if you roll well, you can use all those stats. A half-orc is a fun death cleric.
#13 mellored Jun 14, 2015 20:40:25	villager: We are being raided by kobolds, we can give you 10 gold if you protect us. good PC: of course we will protect you, for it is our honer and duty. evil PC: i get to kill things and get paid? my lucky day.
#14 Earthdawn Jun 15, 2015 3:53:26	Look at politicians, they are Evil and manage to look/act like they are a part of society.  Just be a smarmy a-hole and pulling off Evil isn't too hard.
#15 jaappleton Jun 15, 2015 4:45:27	Sehanine doesn't like Undead, but understands it's necessity sometimes. Such as when she tolerates the Eladrin version of Liches. Again, I forget the name, but it's there. Even with Kelemvor, you can ignore the Animate Dead spell, or even work with your DM to swap it out for something more thematically appropriate.
(Reply to #15) ArialBlack	jaappleton wrote:
(Reply to #10) Tempest_Stormwind	Mechatarrasque wrote:
#18 OnionDruid Jun 15, 2015 11:17:51	Do note that evil people love and have friends. Good PC: My friends got swindled out of money, lets go get our money back and call it a day. Evil PC: My friends got swindled out of money, I'm going to go turn that person into a smear on the ground and give my friend's money back. Of course even though you are evil you may not react violently. You may just discredit their business or ruin them another way. You just won't feel bad.
#19 Clutchbone Jun 15, 2015 12:34:18	Evil PC =/= unhinged sociopath.   You don't mind killing and torture, but you have at least the minimal amount of common sense required to avoid doing it unnecessarily.     Also, as noted, worship Kelemvor as a neutral or even good cleric. Ask your DM to replace Animate Dead with Speak With Dead on your domain spell list.
#20 awaken_D_M_golem Jun 15, 2015 14:00:29	Mechatarrasque wrote:
#21 Kron-Karn Jun 15, 2015 14:09:31	I was recently toying with a death cleric/ necromancer wizard build. Thought of him not nessasarily as evil but one of those guys that's just really into death and the human anatomy. Kinda like a 18th century doctor. So i went on a search for a deity to fit and found the suel god wee jas. She has no problem with undead being created - as long as they are not reanimated against their will, and their remains are procured in a lawful manner. She is unconcerned with questions of morality; if it can be done within the confines of the law, she will allow it.