Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Darthy1980 Jan 10, 2015 1:54:11	Hi all, I was wondering if playing a Dex based Dwarf Tempest cleric is valid ?   First let me say that I want to be a Dwarf for RP purposes (as I realize it might be a sub optimal choice).   We are using the standard array (limitation by DM).   My initial plan was to go with a Mountain Dwarf and go with a warhammer and shield, so strength based. Starting stats would be: 16 STR 15 WIS 15 CON 12 DEX 10 INT 8 CHA Damage die is d8 for a warhammer. AC is 18. Idea then was to bump wisdom and strength (depending a bit on how I'm noticing I'm playing the most)   But thinking about it, why not go for a Hill Dwarf with a rapier and a shield, dex based. Starting stats would be: 16 WIS 15 CON 14 DEX and then not sure , but STR, CHA and INT 12, 10 and 8. Damage die is d8 for a rapier (maybe not very thematically correct). AC would be 18 also (Scale). I'd not use the heavy armor proficiency but I'm not seeing why it's needed. Idea then would be to bump wisdom or dex, again depending on how I'm noticing I'm playing the most.   I think in the end with heavy armor you can go 1 more eventually AC wise, but you're missing out on more useful dex saving throws, more inititative, better use of ranged weapons, etc. I've been seeing this discussion around on other places as well, but mainly those were focused on the Fighter. Having a dex based tempest cleric seems a bit weird, but am I missing something ? Is it indeed better mechanic wise ?   Only reason I see going Str is if i wanted to swap out my shield for a 2 handed weapon and maybe grab polearm master (or shield master as shove requires Strenght I believe, although the other benefits of this feat gain more from Dex).   Thanks !   Jorn
#2 jaappleton Jan 10, 2015 4:22:45	Read Mellored's guide on Clerics. Going Strength based typically means using a 2H weapon, right? Well the Cleric is mainly a caster. You already need Wisdom and Con. Neither of which helps a melee stat, unless you take Magic Initiate for Shillaleigh. I butchered the spelling, I know. The Tempest lv8 feature promotes using a weapon, and you get Heavy Armor. But that doesn't mean you have to use it. You can go with Medium and use a Dex weapon. Or go Heavy and use a Strength weapon. Regardless, you need Wis, Con, and Dex/Str. I say Dex is better because it helps initiative, and you should be sword n board over 2H. The extra AC > Extra damage, especially since you don't get a 2nd attack.
#3 etcetera Jan 10, 2015 4:59:02	Numbers say clerics want to dual wield for melee dpr if I'm not mistaken.  So dex is nominally as good (melee) or better (range) for them than str.  The other stuff you say is applicable.  Obviously your racial isn't synergistic.
#4 mellored Jan 10, 2015 8:58:32	Dex clerics are generally better then str clerics. And you can still wear heavy armor with dex, your just a little slow
#5 Ath-kethin Jan 10, 2015 14:11:05	Seems like a valid character to me. I see nothing in the rules that prevents it.
#6 Darthy1980 Jan 11, 2015 0:43:58	Thanks for all the feedback guys, now I can move the dex way without feeling I'm doing something wrong
#7 jaappleton Jan 12, 2015 9:05:51	Well, the mental image of a Dwarf with a rapier is totally wrong, but a better build (IMO).
#8 Jamwes Jan 12, 2015 11:35:41	I like the build. If you're fine doing a touch less damage, you can always stick with Sacred Flame as your main attack instead of closing to melee. Which really, if you only worry about bumping Wis, the cantrip is about the same damage as a rapier at 5th (2d8 vs 1d8+dex), less at 8th, about the same at 11th, and more at 17th. Once you can cast Spiritual Weapon your Wis based attacks will remain decent in most fights. It last 10 rounds, isn't concentration, and lets you make a melee spell attack as a bonus action. Spiritual Weapon and Sacred Flame every fight will keep you productive. This is before you consider using spells for any other attacks in a fight. Don't forget that as a Dwarf your movement speed isn't reduced by armor. So, if you find full plate and you don't care about stealth, then put it on.   The only "limiting" factor is that you're stuck with only using a rapier for the best melee damage. (Refluff it to a Dwarven knife or lightning rod or something.) However, with a 14 Dex and 12 Str, your melee attacks with Str are "only" 1 worse. Which, I think is fine if you play as a caster and rely on cantrips and your Wis. Tempest is more of a casting cleric, so you're fine just relying on Wis and your spells as your primary attack.   For the way my games tend to go (which means to say they fall apart by low to mid teens) you're optimized just fine. By level 12 you have enough time to bring your Wis to 20 and take a feat, probably Resiliance Con. If you make it to 20 you can decide if you want to bump that Dex to 18 or take two more feats.
#9 Darthy1980 Jan 13, 2015 13:17:02	I agree there jaappleton but as jamwes suggested, i do plan to change it somewhat for flavor if the dm agrees. I do plan to still carry around a warhammer also, for dramatic effect during RP     To be honest I'm more and more leaning towards going Light cleric (started a separate thread for that), so i can really just focus on wisdom. But I do like the RP element of the tempest cleric better. Knowing myself, I'll go back and forth a few times I also don't expect to go much beyond level 12
#10 jaappleton Jan 13, 2015 14:19:01	Consider taking the feat Magic Initiate to grab the Shillaleigh cantrip from the Druid class. You get a d8 using a staff, can still hold a shield, and Wisdom becomes your melee attack stat. This makes Wisdom your only offensive stat, for both melee and spells, leaving more points for Constitution or anything else you need.
#11 RubenRybnikk Jan 18, 2015 20:07:06	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #11) AaronOfBarbaria	RubenRybnikk wrote:
#13 Undrhil Jan 19, 2015 20:31:05	And, being a Dwarf, you can ignore all of that, since you ignore speed penalties for wearing heavy armor.