Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 OutsiderSubtype Aug 22, 2014 8:31:01	So when druids wildshape, they get the max hp of their new form. When those hitpoints are gone, they leave wildshape, revert to their prior hp total, and take any excess damage from the hit that reduced the form to zero.   You can do this twice per short or long rest.   Moon druids can expend spell slots to heal themselves in wildshape form.   This means that druids can have a big pool of wildshape hp that the bad guys have to burn through. For first level characters it means your hp pool is tripled if you shift twice into a boar for instance.    It isn't all good stuff though. To me it looks like spellcasting is completely disabled in wildshape form - no way around it even by a feat.   So how can we make effective use of the meatshield wildshape?.   How do you make your combat form enough of a threat?   If you have loads of hp but you're no threat to the bad guys, they might just ignore you. Losing spellcasting greatly reduces the threat you pose, although you can do things like cast Call Lightning, wildshape, and then continue to draw down lightning in animal form. Moon druids can choose more menacing wildshape forms, and some feats like Charger might help you get in the fray quickly.    Is the AC loss worth it?   Most animal forms have poor AC compared to an adventurer in armor. If those wildshape hit points are lost quickly because of poor AC, it might not be worth it.   How do you be a more effective animal combatant?   Multiclass as a fighter or paladin? Are there any other feats that could help? Spells?
#2 NN1 Aug 22, 2014 13:20:30	OutsiderSubtype wrote:
#3 NN1 Aug 22, 2014 15:20:40	Another way to help your ac is barding.  Unforunately, this requires som planning, since you will need to shift and have someone else put it on you before battle.  Furthermore, it only works if you have a small number of favored forms, since you will likely have to buy a different animal (similar forms may have interchangible barding, but how flexible this is is DM's discretion) and barding can get pretty heavy and a bit expensive quickly if you get too many sets.  Furthermore, the rules seem to imply that natural armor and armor don't stack, but future books might change/clarify this (this makes sense, since the relatively flat attack bonus progressions make run-away ac increases potentially overpowered).     There are also magical such as barkskin, which gives you (or an ally) a minimum of 16 ac for an hour.  However, the concentration duration of barkskin could leave you in a spot of trouble if you fail the check, so you might want to consider war caster for advantage on concentration checks (I don't know if , especially if you plan on sword and boarding at all in normal form (or should I say shillelagh and board).  Constitution save proficiency from that potential barbarian dip (or from a feat), but it seems that you get to use either your save bonus or your animals, not your proficiency bonus PLUS their ability bonus, so that proficiency won't necessarily let you use bear con too (I could be wrong about this interpretation, though).   Generally I'd suggest that a moon druid cast some sort of battlefield control or buff if necessary at the begining of the fight, then charging in with wildshape.   ___________________________   Another concern is what to do if/when you get shifted back from damage.  While it is tempting, and quite reasonable, to dump some physical stats because wildshape replaces them, but having okay hp and ac can make you an effective meleee combatant when wild shape runs out or fails.  Shillelagh lets you dump strength so you raise con and dex (wis should still be your highest stat) and still have a d8 attack powered by your primary ability score (you aren't likely to beat that except maybe duel-wielded scimitars or a non-druid martial weapon from a dip).  With a spare spell, you can replace shillelagh for flame blade, but you always want a reliable cantrip option.  With hide armor, a shield, and a +2 dex bonus, you can manage 16ac, the same as barkskin.     Alternatively, you can fall back to be a ranged caster when you go back to humanoid form (definitely a good idea if you decided to dump your physical stats or the enemy took too many of your hit points.  Healing, buff, battlefield control, and even straight up damage spells are all part of the druid repertoire, so you can mix it up.  There is something to be said for switching tactics if you're taking enough damage to wipe out your powerful animal form.     Just because druids can no longer wildshape and spell cast at the same time doesn't mean they can't switch tactics mid-way through a fight, possibly ever prematurely ending wildshape when necessary.  The reverse is also a valid tactic: playing a caster role, until the fools charge the "squishy mage" only to suddenly find a GIANT BEAR waiting for them!
#4 OutsiderSubtype Aug 22, 2014 17:17:28	Good thoughts in this thread so far. A big part of the Druid's appeal is versatility.    It's seeming to me that when it comes to pure toughness an enraged Bear barbarian has the edge even over a Moon druid. The resistance to all damage and d12 hit die is nuts.   However, the druid can be a full spellcaster as well . . .
#5 NN1 Aug 22, 2014 17:40:31	OutsiderSubtype wrote:
#6 Psikerlord Aug 23, 2014 2:26:40	Yep when I read combat wildshape I thought combo this with 1 level barb for rage, and youve got some bad ass options! Cast spells, melee with flameblade, or goes wildshape and rage on! Great fun in and out of combat I think.
(Reply to #2) Bhawk2021	[quote="NN1"]   OutsiderSubtype wrote:How do you make your combat form enough of a threat?
#8 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 02, 2014 18:32:47	[quote="Bhawk2021"] NN1 wrote:
#9 Seraphex Sep 02, 2014 18:36:53	Level 1 Monk. The basic rule for AC is: Your highest counts. Then you just check if your 10+Dex+Wis is higher than the beasts 10+Natural Armor+Dex (Hint: It probably will) and you're good to go. Moon Druid pretty much only care about their own Wis, so that's gonna be pretty high, and an average beast has at least decent Dex. This will naturally make more dextrous beasts (Felines, birds, etc) more desirable choices. Obvious you don't get to add your Wis to whatever the beast's AC is. There's no controversy over that, that's just plain and easy RAW.   Moon druids (Even dipping into Barbarians) have an edge over full Barbarians  in terms of versatility. You need to infiltrate? Why not become a rat. Need an eye in the sky? Plenty of birds to choose from. Enemies attack from sea? Hope your DM likes 3d combat, because SHARKS. Even in combat itself you can adapt your wild shape to whatever the situation demands. Do you want a high mobility skirmishing form today, or a furry tank? The Monster Manual's your limit. [quote="Bhawk2021"] NN1 wrote:
#10 Yunru Sep 02, 2014 18:39:38	Bhawk2021 wrote:
#11 7he_professor Sep 02, 2014 19:02:47	OutsiderSubtype wrote:
#12 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 02, 2014 19:10:21	7he_professor wrote:
(Reply to #10) Bhawk2021	Yunru wrote:
#14 Bhawk2021 Sep 02, 2014 19:22:20	Is it assured that Druids of the Moon get Max HP when they combat wild shape? I can't seem to find that in the PHB. I see under creatures the Average hp and then the Hit die +mod.
#15 Jay_Ibero_911 Sep 02, 2014 20:06:08	Bhawk2021 wrote:
#16 Bhawk2021 Sep 02, 2014 20:17:51	If I am a level 2 Druid of the Moon and I change into a Dire Wolf- Hp says it's 37(5d10+10) from PHB. How would I calculate my HP? I'm sorry if it's a silly question, this is my first time doing this.
(Reply to #16) 2Chlorobutanal	Bhawk2021 wrote:
(Reply to #16) Elenduin	Bhawk2021 wrote: