Greetings,
Druids look pretty radical, I bet they are a ton of fun to play.
BUT...
They don't have any cool features. Most other classes have some sort of feature at almost every level, but druids have a bunch of "dead" levels where their "only" perk is getting a new spell level. Granted, that's a cool perk. But I'd like to see them with a few more nifty features.
What are your thoughts? Do you think druids are dry?
AndyDay wrote:
Thanks for the insight. I didn't really look at other spell casters and gett that same... impression. Though that's dumb since the printing is literally on the paper.
The druid in the group I played in yesterday was swinging a fire sword for 3d6 or 3d8 damage a swing... or something. didn't really look into it but it seemed potent.
There is a bit of an hidden level up for Moon Druids because they get new forms every 3rd level (sorta)
CR 1 at level 2 with Wild Shape, CR 2 at 6, CR 3 at 9, CR 4 at 12, CR 5 at 15 and CR 6 at 18.
I concur, Wild Shape remains my favourite ability in D&D, regardless of it's actual combat effectiveness.
Any beast you have stats for of CR Level/3 and that your Druid has encountered is pretty versatile.
We're most of the way through HOTDQ and going to lvl 7 soon. I've been checking up on druid optimisation and I've seen a spell that seems utterly broken. Maybe I'm missing some extra rule that limits its effectiveness?
Summon Woodland Beings. Summon 8 pixies. Each pixie has once per day for several spells. Highlights being Confusion, Dispel Magic and Polymorph.
At level 7 that's 8 dispel magics, 8 confusions and 8 polymorphs for a single lvl 4 slot.
Polymorph works much like wildhspape, except with CR cap of lvl/1 rather than lvl/3. This means that at the same level party members can be turned into giant apes. Not wanting to give exact stats, suffice to say that a giant ape will tear up the place. Worst case 8 sequential polymorphs on the party tank is cira 1200+ temp hp for the enemies to tear through as the tank tanks and the party bard, light cleric and sorcerer each lob in 8D6 for fireballs per turn. The druid and pixies hide so that they don't die/ lose concentration.
Here's a cool Brit sketch show that sums up the apparent power of the level 7 druid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbzUfV3_JIA
If I've missed any obvious limitations, I'd be glad to hear about it.
Gaz
No you have it right, it's very much so broken 
Arent summoned beings under the control of the DM? And another thing your forgetting, is the nature of a Pixie. They hate to fight! so yes you get several powerful friends at that 4th level spot, but they are still fey creatures, and might not be to all around happy that they have summoned you. WIth even just a little roleplay and story, they get a lot less powerful.
Arent summoned beings under the control of the DM? And another thing your forgetting, is the nature of a Pixie. They hate to fight! so yes you get several powerful friends at that 4th level spot, but they are still fey creatures, and might not be to all around happy that they have summoned you. WIth even just a little roleplay and story, they get a lot less powerful.
Highlights of spell description: "The summoned creatures are friendly to the caster and companions. They obey orders issued by the caster".
If the DM then says, "Nah, they're not actually very fighty and they're not going to actually do what you want them to", then the druid player gets annoyed as his spell is not working as advertised.
Even if that house rule were introduced (Which I would be tempted to do as DM tbh) they're still the equivalent of 8 Fly spells (3rd level...) on a stick, and/ or 8 invisible scouts that can easily scout an entire dungeon unless doors are very tight.
8 lvl 3 slots for a lvl 4 slot is amazing spell economy. It's like 8 arcane eyes, except that these eyes can use initiative to avoid hazards and explore far more area, albeit not with real time updates of the map.
Although, to be fair, some bog standard 500gp boots (Craftable at lvl 3) renders the need for the Fly spell moot anyway.
It's bad spell design, pure and simple. Their 1hp fragility is irrelevant if the enemy are all dead from mauling each other, or having been mauled to death by a giant ape PC helper with 1200+ ablative HP.
Or the issue might be that the pixie creature type should be CR1, or somesuch? 2 pixies is still darn good for a lvl 4 slot, IMO.
I'm thinking that an evil lvl7 druid could be a major challenge for any party up to at least lvl 6 (Or 7+ if they don't have their own druid for pixie spamming). 8 Confusion spells (Albeit only DC12) followed up by polymorphs on key PCs followed up by the druid going ape and mauling the party to death.
And as the pixies are invisible with respectable stealth, they should get the alpha strike surprise round.
Horrendous, horrendous spell...
Might be worth the party lore bard picking up at level 10.
Gaz
As far as I can tell, Pixies are the only ones that break this spell. I just got my MM so i will be looking at other options of this spell. From what i can tell though, Pixies seem to be pretty damn broken. Might just remove them from the spell choices
derailed!
I'm not concerned about how effective druids are. Just how entertaining/interesting they are to level up.
AndyDay wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
Apologies for any derailing.
To an extent a character is as fun as what you put into it, subject to what potential a character class has.
e.g. Champion is about the most boring PC class out there, but some people like minimal mechanics in order to focus on roleplay/ they just don't like book keeping. With some hearty battle cries and cutting remarks at the right time, the player can have fun at any level.
On the other hand, a lore bard is one of the most insanely versatile classes in the game. Loads of skills, abilty to be party faceman. Buffs in combat, debuffs in combat, short rest healing, ability to poach spells from any classes in the game. There is almost literally nothing that a bard PC cannot eventually manage (Except for things such as 8 attacks per round like a high lvl fighter can).
But the bard player in our group has a weird hang up about roleplaying with NPCs. The DM expects the player to come up with some kind of framework for any deceptions that he tries, whereas the player says, "I've got x skill ranks in dception, just roll the dice." This reasoning hasn't washed for the DM, so sorc is now party deceiver. Point is that the bard player has one of the best classes in the game for getting involved in the action, but he doesn't want to take the role on after all.
With regards to initial topic, I concur with Mephi1234 that druid is a very versatile class as long as you're creative with spells and shapechanging (And having a broken lvl 4 spell is nice as well). If druid isn't your cup of tea, I think that bard is a very versatile class, combining loads of skills, stealthing, healing and nuking (With right lore options) in a single package.
My own favourite class is Light Cleric. He can tank quite reasonably, protect party members, heal and also do some nice damage. His 30' radius enemies only nuke is very very nice, and it's once/ twice per short rest. He's not as versatile as the bard, but I get a lot of play out of it as I leverage all of the class features at every opportunity, whereas we are having to constantly remind the bard player about giving out bardic dice, etc.
Gaz
Gazzor75 wrote:
A quick fix is to say summoned creatures cannot use per day effects.(non "RAW" fix)
Technically I can tell the player that that particular creature already used that spell today.("RAW" fix, though it's easier to go with the first fix so the player doesn't feel ripped off and the expectation is set; also not believable to have every creature always tapped out)
Edit:
I forgot Pixies don't have normal attacks. That's just bad design as it allows the Pixie to be a lower CR than it should be otherwise.
A couple of options:
Say that the pixie is treated as a CR 1 monster when summoned. Still powerful with two of them when summoned at a 4th level slot, but not overly so and you can do so only 3 times a day max. At a 6th level slot you get 4 of them twice a day max. At an 8th level slot you get 8 of them once a day max. That seems perfectly in line.
Make it a concentration spell with the same rules as Conjure Fey if you lose control of them(they become hostile towards you and your allies). That way you will be careful with your use of pixies as now those dirty tricks can be turned back on you.
bonethug0108 wrote:
Summon Woodland Beings is super OP as it stands, and it'll need errata (which it probably won't get) or a DM disclaimer to prevent it's abuse.
Now that that's over with, back to the OP!
Druids are fantastic.
I'm currently playing a Druid/Monk (Moon/Fist) which has helped with the "No class features" thing you were dealing with, and has added a lot of very nice theming to the character. Shileligh is nuts because its' two weapon options are also monk weapons, which comes online as soon as you get martial arts. Plus, it nets you Extra Attack, and Unarmored Defense/Movement, which are incredibly good for creatures that don't wear armor (all of them.) Some DM's have argued that 'natural armor' consitutes wearing armor, so that's a downside, but you can always just shift into something that doesn't have natural armor. Flurry of blows is obscene on a lot of creatures as well, as they've often got ridiculous strength modifiers compared to when you get them. Have you ever been bicycle kicked by an alosaurus? Ever watch an Ankylosaurus grab an arrow out of the air with it's beak and throw it back at you?
Druids also get new perks in between levels, since each time they see a new beast of suitable CR they have expanded their catalog of Wild Shapes.
Noctaem wrote:
At first glance, druids along with things like divination wizards look like contenders for strongest class in game
Gazzor75 wrote:
The polymorph is comical. The players would gain the mental stats of the giant ape and likely flee from the combat to go look for a mate or whatever giant apes do with their time. If multiple players are turned into male giant apes, then they would likely fight each other for dominance. So I say, bring that situation on
I decided to check on the mental stats as taking those on did seem like a major limitation.
Giant Ape is INT 7:Not much worse than some party members and possibly smarter than certain players in my party (Sorcerer, "I shoot the Flameskull with Scorching Ray." )
WIS is 12, which is wiser than some of the party members.
Anyway, I'm not the DM, so not my problem.
He's already staking up harder encounters vs. us as party can output 11 fireballs per day at lvl 6. (3 bard, 3 cleric, 3 sorcerer - can spend SPs and slots for more fireballs).
Gaz
I came to this thread because I was thinking of playing a Land Druid in a new campaign, but read through the class and thought..."meh".
But now I'm thinking of Land Druid/Fey Warlock (Pact o' Chain) multiclass. Kind of MAD but still....
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