Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 HermanTheWize Feb 25, 2015 8:30:04	When you take crossbow expertise feat, why does you off-hand hand crossbow use the modifier?(Unlike off-hand melee weapons)
#2 Archon007 Feb 25, 2015 8:42:32	HermanTheWize wrote:
(Reply to #2) HermanTheWize	Archon007 wrote:
(Reply to #3) Macv12	There are two reasons.   First, the reason you don't add your modifier to the second attack when dual-wielding is because you reference the rules for Two-Weapon Fighting on PHB 195. That rule says that when you attack with one light melee weapon, you can then attack with another one, but not add your modifier to it. If you're not using a light weapon to attack and then using another light weapon, as per the TWF rule, it doesn't apply. A hand crossbow is not a light melee weapon, so you can ignore that rule.   Second, Crossbow Expertise doesn't say anything about an offhand crossbow (TWF doesn't refer to an "offhand" either, technically, but that's not relevant here). If you attack with any one-handed weapon (including a hand crossbow), and you are holding a hand crossbow, you can attack with it. This can be a second hand crossbow in your other hand, or the same one you just attacked with. The default assumption of all attacks is that you apply your modifier to damage, and TWF is a specific exception to that. Since there's no exception here, you get your modifier.
#5 Noctaem Feb 25, 2015 8:59:07	Macv12 wrote:
#6 Kayal Feb 25, 2015 9:43:09	Noctaem wrote:
#7 SterlingRat Feb 25, 2015 9:52:29	I envisioned dual-wielding repeating crossbow from... 3.5? 3? don't remember. Character's name was Jonwoo. Enjoyed diving through windows for no reason.
(Reply to #6) Yunru	Kayal wrote:
#9 Kayal Feb 25, 2015 10:30:53	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #6) Coredump00	Kayal wrote:
(Reply to #8) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
#12 Noctaem Feb 25, 2015 12:44:36	Coredump00 wrote:
(Reply to #12) Bloodscythe	Noctaem wrote:
#14 FunkySpunk Feb 26, 2015 23:39:42	How many ApR can a Human Fighter with the Crossbow Expert feat officially make at first level? And does it matter if it's a hand crossbow or a light crossbow or a heavy crossbow? Ideally, I'd like to build a Fighter with a Hand Crossbow and a Shield (Buckler type shield is fine, flavor wise).
(Reply to #14) FrogReaver	FunkySpunk wrote:
#16 Noctaem Feb 27, 2015 5:21:22	FunkySpunk wrote:
#17 Coredump00 Feb 27, 2015 6:11:06	The type of crossbow *does* matter, since the bonus attack only works with a handbow.   I will agree with the above that you really need to discuss with your DM...since there is various opinions on what is/should be allowed.   But I will disagree with the blanket assertion that it is "completely legal".... since that is but one interpretation of the rules provided. (And goes against what the designer has stated)  The game is designed to draw on our understanding of the world and items in the world.  These can be changed in the rules....but otherwise we are meant to use our real-world knowledge of items in the game. This is why they don't have to explicitly describe every single thing in the game.  Our real-world knowledge tells us that Crossbows need two hands to reload.... nothing in the rules makes any changes to that. So, to me, that means the rules indicate you still need 2 hands to reload. (As also stated by the lead rules guy)   Now, others prefer it to work differently.... and thats fine.  And I would never state that a shield+handbow is "completely illegal", because the rules do not directly address it and it would be pretty pompous for me to claim that my interpretation is the "completely correct" way....   I just wanted to clear up that it certainly is *not* "completely legal".
#18 Noctaem Feb 27, 2015 6:19:18	There's nothing wrong with having a handcrossbow and shield.  The problems come from how reloading works.  Based on designed intent you can't reload because you need a free hand.  Based on rules you can since it's part of the attack.  Nothing contradicts my earlier statement and the designers have NEVER said that using a hand crossbow + shield is not intended.     Ignore the real world knowledge bs in the above post too.  It's far too often used to push nonsensical assertions about things work in the game (which is not the real world).  Ask your DM instead.
(Reply to #18) FrogReaver	Noctaem wrote:
#20 Coredump00 Feb 27, 2015 10:11:30	Being 'part of the attack' does not address needing one or two hands to reload.  At best that is another 'interpretation'... to claim it as 'fact' is plain wrong.   If you decide to "ignroe real world knowledge' the game quickly grinds to a halt since the game assumes you 'know' things based on how the 'real world' works.
(Reply to #20) FrogReaver	Coredump00 wrote:
#22 Kalani Feb 27, 2015 10:34:58	Um.... loading a crossbow, longbow, or shortbow does not use the "use object" action, nor does it use the "interact with objects" free action. It is simply a part of using the weapon. The Loading property restricts crossbows to one attack/round, a property which is removed/ignored by characters with the crossbow expert feat.
#23 Noctaem Feb 27, 2015 10:38:18	God can we please not start this stupid beaten to death conversation again?  Some posters will NEVER agree, there's 200 post threads that proves that.  Let's just all move on.
(Reply to #22) FrogReaver	Kalani wrote:
(Reply to #23) FrogReaver	Noctaem wrote: