Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jaappleton May 27, 2015 5:35:19	This build assumes TWF style houseruled for Paladins. Assuming I start at level 5, and rolled stats, what should I be looking at? I was thinking Dex based, two scimitars, Vengeance. Maybe Half Elf, and Defensive Duelist caught me eye to help shore up AC. Are there better feats for this build available?
#2 mellored May 27, 2015 5:57:29	Dex and TWF paladins do fine. Half-elf is an obvious choice. Defensive dualist is only good once your proficency grows.  Wait unill 12, or 8 at the earliest.   Insperational Leader adds to your defense, and to the entire party.
#3 jaappleton May 27, 2015 6:06:08	Inspiring Leader to give everyone a bubble which will likely absorb a hit, as opposed to DD which is restricted to melee and might help... Hmm. Hadn't thought of that. A solid choice, Mello!
#4 SterlingRat May 27, 2015 6:28:38	If you haven't already, check out the guide     Don't pick dex for just because dual wielding has been linked to dex since 2e. they aren't linked this edition... Str based dual wielding is just as balanced - it's a choice, not a requirement.   Don't take the "Dual Wield" feat just because the name makes you think it's a good choice. There are plenty of excellent light weapons to choose from. However, might want dual wield if your DM starts counting free hands when you want a somatic component spell... unarmed strike is not a light weapon (Why? no idea...), so you can't punch someone with your empty hand unless you have the feat. Some DMs count, some don't...   How many ASIs will it take to max out your attack stat?
#5 jaappleton May 27, 2015 6:54:06	Unarmed Strike isn't Light or Finesse because the development team doesn't know what will be added to the game later yet, and they don't want to back themselves into a corner regarding what works despite the fact that it shouldn't be able to work. They got burned with that a few times in previous editions. That's my two cents on it, anyway.
#6 jaappleton May 27, 2015 6:56:31	I want Dex based for the better initiative, the light armor, the stealth, etc. I'm leaning Scimitars, which are only 1d6 each but are Light and Finesse. I don't know if it's worth the feat to move up to dual rapiers at 1d8.
#7 mellored May 27, 2015 7:02:27	jaappleton wrote:
#8 Tempest_Stormwind May 27, 2015 7:03:14	Considering smite, scimitars without the feat (and possibly without the houseruled style) should be fine.
#9 jaappleton May 27, 2015 7:07:32	And what about the Vow? I was thinking Vengeance, but Ancients seems alright. Also, my table doesn't worry about Somatic and Material components.
#10 SterlingRat May 27, 2015 7:10:00	The only thing I would change from what Mello posted is the order... and that's a big old maybe, and it would be entirely dependant on how things were going when actually getting to level 12 - I would consider getting 20 dex then and getting Defensive Duelist at 16... actually, I would probable not take Defensive duelist at all because I like offense and tanking - I would get Sentinel instead.    It's not better, just different.
#11 mellored May 27, 2015 7:12:47	jaappleton wrote:
#12 jaappleton May 27, 2015 7:19:14	Well, I want offense. Party is an archer beastmaster Ranger, a twf fighter and myself. Our DM has been catering fights to us, putting healing potions in with the loot, avoiding massive hordes (though we still see them occasionally). I consider Devotion to be Defense, Vengeance to be offense and Ancients in the middle. But I may be wrong, been awhile since I dove into the other Oaths.
#13 mellored May 27, 2015 7:38:47	Vengence is single target offense.  Hunter's mark doesn't help much since your are TWF.  Haste is also less good with TWF.  Honestly, i would skip them in that party.   Devotion is more balanced with +Cha to-hit and charm immunity.  Less of a boost and takes a full action but isn't limited to a single target.  They get defensive spells, but no reason you need to use them.   Ancients doesn't add any physical boosts, but get's some good anti-crowd spells like Moonbeam and plant growth.     So... i'd suggest ancients.  followed by devotion.  vengnce seems worse in that group where you have plenty of single target damage.   Unless you think it would be more fun.
#14 SterlingRat May 27, 2015 7:39:02	I see ancients as magical (more openly magical effects like teleportation and resistance to magic damage), vengence as martial and devotion as holy. It sounds like you want to be more offensive and martial focused, and you won't go wrong getting your vengance on.    That said... all three can be pretty sweet. Paladins came out looking really good in this edition.
#15 jaappleton May 27, 2015 7:47:32	I like Ancients ability to dish out a little AoE. But on Vengeance with Hunters Mark, am I missing something about it not being great for TWF? It turns my scimitars into 2d6 each, that's doubling the damage output.
(Reply to #15) SterlingRat	jaappleton wrote:
#17 mellored May 27, 2015 8:07:56	jaappleton wrote:
#18 RCanine May 27, 2015 8:16:34	I wouldn't discount the strength path, either. Hand axes are the best dual-wielding weapons after all, since you can throw them too.
#19 SterlingRat May 27, 2015 8:19:19	And remember that Hunter's Mark is a concentration spell that prevents the cast of other concentration spells (Divine Favor & smites). You will get more damage out of divine favor than hunter's mark when fighting hordes. You will get more damage casting a smite spell against the BBEG. so... almost never worth casting hunter's mark unless you sneak up on the BBEG and have a round where it is visible, in range and you aren't fighting yet.    I guess sneaking up on a sleeping dragon would make HM worth it over DF & smites,
#20 jaappleton May 27, 2015 8:21:08	Huh... Waddya know. I learned something today. Anyway, the Ranger's previous character was a Half Elf Ancients Paladin, GWF. Died because he tried to stab through a cursed, sentient book that didn't take kindly to attempts at its destruction. I almost want to take Ancients just for the snide (but friendly) remarks between us as players. In-game, perhaps my character can even be from his Order. But that's too close to what he did... Suggestions for a race aside from HE? I know they're a great choice, but I'd almost be a carbon copy of him if I went with it.
#21 mellored May 27, 2015 8:31:05	Human Variant can start you with Inspiring Leader, then you can go directly to bumping Dex and Cha.  Though the lack of dark vision can hamper your sneaking.   Halfings are not hampered by small weapons when TWF, have extra hiding places, and lucky boost everything a little bit.  Though being slow hurts melee classes a bit.   Dragonborn give you an AoE attack.  Which could certainly be handy.   Aarakocra (bird men), fly.  Makes it easy to get to the back line and smite the wizard.  Just be careful not to get knocked out of the air.  Falling hurts.   Or you can play whatever.
#22 mellored May 27, 2015 8:34:37	Though i kinda want to suggest you play a carbon copy.     Just walk upto the party and say "sorry, but have we met before?  i lost my memory but you look familair somehow...".
#23 SterlingRat May 27, 2015 8:54:44	Well... I would ask why you chose twf when you already have a twf fighter in the group? Wouldn't some diversity from a polearm or great weapon be better? After all, if you find a magic handaxe, there are 2 players that need it. If you fing a magic great weapon, everyone will stare at it and then have to find somewhere to trade it in for something useful.    I would probably go Half-Orc, polearm master, +2 Str, +2 Str, Inspiring Leader, +2 Cha. Vengence.    although copying his character would be funny
#24 Noctaem May 27, 2015 8:56:30	SterlingRat wrote:
#25 SterlingRat May 27, 2015 9:10:38	Noctaem wrote:
#26 mellored May 27, 2015 9:10:52	SterlingRat wrote:
#27 SterlingRat May 27, 2015 11:39:36	mellored wrote: