Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Litania84it Sep 03, 2014 7:08:26	Someone pointed out how at low levels, with racial weapon proficiencies, a wizard can be more effective mixing it up in meelee than hanging back from the rear. That image conjured up builds from "diablo", where your mage could be created to be a tank or a close combat mammoth. Can something like this be done for 5E?   The obvious racial choice would be Mountain Dwarf, for the weapons and the armor proficiencies and con. Classes could be: Abjurer's Wizard for the auto replenishing temporary hit points or Dragon sorcerer for the natural armor (though dwarf can do better) and the extra hp. (Fiend warlock pact of the blade would work for obvious reasons, but I feel like I'm cheating for this challenge, since the class is already optimised for meelee).   Shocking grasp and poison spray become very usable and your go to cantrips (even though your hammers will be more damaging until 6th level). Color spray is now an excellent choice and your damaging AoE blasts come from thunderwave and burning hands. Shield is obvious and so is False Life. Mirror image is better than blur in that it doesn't require concentration (but that also means you could have both up). All cone spells (like Fear) are more attractive. Special mentions to Vampiric Touch (self healing over many rounds), Haste, Fire Shield, Stoneskin and Polymorph.   The feats to help this build would be: warcaster, resilient (con, for proficiency in concentration saves), sentinel and tough. Concentration saves may not even be that big a problem for an abjurer though, since your temp hp should be replenishing steadily.   Obviously I am not suggesting this replaces a fighter in terms of effectiveness, and I know that an eldritch knight can do all of that probabily better. But you still would get to keep all of your wizard utility like this. Plus it's fun to build unusual underdog characters!   What do people think?
#2 mellored Sep 03, 2014 7:23:18	It's a viable charcter.   Splashing a level of cleric or fighter.   Both give you shields (since you don't need 2-hands), and armor. Cleric for the spell slots, fighter for Con saves (assuming you start at 1) and +1 AC.   Then you can take hill dwarf for more HP.
(Reply to #2) Sorxores	mellored wrote:
#4 mellored Sep 03, 2014 9:42:34	Sorxores wrote:
(Reply to #4) Sorxores	mellored wrote:
#6 mellored Sep 03, 2014 11:03:42	Sorxores wrote:
#7 reddaemon Sep 03, 2014 12:58:11	Melee Mage is totally viable.  Here is my build for when I hit level 5:   Human Wizard(Abjurer) 4/Cleric(Knowledge) 1   HP:  28 AC:  20 (Half Plate + Dex + Shield + Staff of Defense), 25 AC when using the Shield spell from the Staff   STR 8 DEX 14 CON 12 INT 18 (15+1+2) WIS 14 (13+1) CHA 10   Feats:  Warcaster(can wield the staff and still provide somatic components for spells, in addition to being able to use Shocking Grasp for OA) Also Warcaster eliminates the need to gain CON proficiency or pump your CON score by giving you advantage on all concentration checks.  You can take the Tough feat instead of increasing your CON.     Skills:  Arcana +10, History +7, Insight +5, Investigation +7, Nature +7, Perception +5, Religion +10 Common + 5 other languages
(Reply to #6) 2Chlorobutanal	mellored wrote:
#9 7he_professor Sep 03, 2014 21:14:39	Viable?  Sure.  Optimal?  Nosomuch.   Consider that you'll likely want to stay mainly in your casting class.  That means you'll never gain more than one attack from the Attack Action.  5 lvls of any Martial class will gain you an additional attack in exchange for 9th level spells, but other than that you're looking at a bonus action attack for dual-weilding that doesn't add your modifier to damage without a feat...not something I'd be excited about.    Granted, this is assuming a 20th level character, and how often does that realistically happen?  YMMV.   Now, I do think Fighter 3/Wizard (Abjuration) 17 looks pretty sexy for Action Surge, Battle Master Maneuvers (mostly for Riposte), heavy armor and shield proficiency, and a free 1d10+2 HP between encounters.  But you're so far behind the spellcasting curve at level 4+ that it might not be worth it (much like how the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are hardly worth it).   Either way...just my 2 cp
(Reply to #9) Litania84it	7he_professor wrote:
#11 wills2009 Sep 04, 2014 18:18:05	There really are a pathetic number of touch spells in 5e so far.   Shocking grasp, Vampiric touch and inflict wounds are the main accessible ones. None of them are particularly more powerful than ranged spells of equal level, which seems a bit silly to me considering the higher risk of using them.     Warlock is probably the best base to start with, Armor of Agathys is amazing if you can cast it at higher slot levels (5 more damage and temp HP per rank). If you can stack on fire shield you are golden.    I personally prefer to play a "melee mage" actually casting touch spells, I'm not interested in trying to mix weapons with it. I've tried that in the past and it just gets too muddled.
#12 Forgember Sep 04, 2014 18:29:01	One of my first ideas for a character in 5e had some of this going on,   Mountain Dwarf Wizard, Str 17 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 13 Wis 10 Cha 10   Was thinking you don't even really need Int super high since your going for more buff spells, magic missles and summons. Theres no requirement for a high Int anymore unless your casting the spells with saves. Basically this guy would run medium armor and battle axe up till 4th level at which point he would take the heavy armor feat and get some plate and an 18 Str. Would probably run with the conjuration school to cast summons and get more mobility.
(Reply to #12) Litania84it	Forgember wrote:
#14 Forgember Sep 04, 2014 18:50:59	Litania84it wrote:
#15 VisageofGlory Sep 04, 2014 23:26:16	I was thinking of a character right along these same lines.  A mountain dwarf Abjurer, who would be focused on being really tanky and basically be an anti-spellcaster wizard, to optimize the shield from the Abjurer and possibly even getting mage killer.  One of the feats that I was trying to incorporate was shield master, as I feel like the character would be extremely hard to take down with any type of spells after he gets the spell damage resistance and saving throws.  However, I couldn't really find a way to effectively get shield proficiency without multi-classing, which would be fine, but it sort of works against the main reason I am building him as a mountain dwarf, so he wouldn't have to multiclass for armor proficiencies.   Do you think shield proficiency would be something that could be trained?
#16 Forgember Sep 05, 2014 7:55:02	Far as I know by RAW all you can train in is Skills and Tool Profs., training in Shield would be something you would need to ask your DM about.
(Reply to #15) Jamwes	VisageofGlory wrote:
(Reply to #17) Litania84it	Jamwes wrote:
#19 RCanine Sep 07, 2014 20:02:04	Your biggest challenge will be the first couple levels, because even if you manage medium armor and 14 dex, you're still fairly easy to hit and don't have much in the way of HP, and healing is hard to come by.   Racial weapons are a great benefit at early levels, because you have so few spells and even the most damaging cantrips pale compared to weapons.   I had dreams of building a melee wizard whose magic was largely for utility, but the reality is that there aren't many spells that support that playstyle (yet). Ironically, that's also my frustration with the Eldritch Knight--the restriction to Evocation/Abjuration completely neuters the concept for me.   So while I think a build like this is neat, I think you need an exit strategy. You're going to be fairly competitive damage-wise for a handful of levels, but once you get to level 3 - 5, you'll have enough spells that you're probably going to want to start hanging back from melee combat and making things go boom.
(Reply to #15) THEMNGMNT	VisageofGlory wrote:
(Reply to #19) Litania84it	RCanine wrote:
#22 Yag007 Sep 08, 2014 8:50:19	Actually a 1 level dip into Warlock would be amazing for anyone going for this build just for Armor of Agathys.  there is no better melee mage spell in the game imho esp. with how great the scaling is.
#23 Litania84it Sep 09, 2014 7:00:39	Spiritual weapon gives us a second attack! Pity there's no way to make it go off Int... A level dip in cleric seems even more attractive now (armor and shields anyone?)
#24 Litania84it Sep 09, 2014 6:58:40	Plus, from another thread I started, it looks like arcane ward would take damage instead of you, therefore eliminating the need for concentration saves. Resilient and warcaster could be taken a little later this way.
#25 2Chlorobutanal Sep 09, 2014 6:58:54	Bigby's hand is like a super-powered, Int-based version of spiritual weapon for Wizards.  Several levels higher, and requires a full action to cast, however.
(Reply to #25) Litania84it	2Chlorobutanal wrote:
(Reply to #26) 2Chlorobutanal	Litania84it wrote:
(Reply to #27) Litania84it	2Chlorobutanal wrote: