Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mellored May 20, 2015 12:43:11	These ratings assume you can use the feat efficency and don't take lightly armored on a fighter, or great weapon master on a wizard, or use sharpshooters -5 to hit on a 2 HP kobold.     They also need to be judged by individual circumstaces and party compisition.  Inspiring leader for example, doesn't stack with another players inspiring leader.  And a full steath team might find skulker to be more useful then most.   They also don't factor in fun and RP.  Don't force yourself to take something you don't want just because i rate it high or avoid it because i rate it lower.  If mage slayer fit's your character concept, then take it.   Crossbow Expert You get an extra attack, and flexible targeting.  Note that you need to have 1 hand free to reload.  Good if you have competing bonus actions. Healer: Basicly +2 Con for the entire party.  Paticularly good for those who don't have innate healing (wizards, fighters) to get teamates off the ground.  Though only 1 in the party should have it.  If you your DM allows easy access to healing potions you might find this useless. Inspiring Leader: Falls in the same vein as healer.  Slightly better if you have the Cha since you can THP now > HP later. Moderatly Armored: Potentially +5 AC, not counting the +1 stat.  That said, not to many can make full use of it. Polearm Master: Possibly 2 extra attacks. Good if you have competing bonus actions or reactions.   +2 Primary stat: Most of what you do relies on this stat.  Paticularly if it's Dex. Alert: Going first is good for anyone.  Paticularly for those with strong nova or control. Defensive Dualist: A strong defensive boost for those in melee and no other competing reaction.  No dex neccicary.  Note that you can use it with a hand-crossbow or 2-handed weapon, simply draw a dagger at the end of your turn, drop it on the next.  It get's better as you level so do not take this untill level 8 at the earliest possibly 12.  It's better then a shield at level 13+ though not a feat's worth better. Great Weapon Master A solid damage boost assuming you have boosted accuracy (20 str, reckless attack, oath of emnity, champion crit range helps too).  Though damage boost the bonus action is likely to be wasted as you just killed your target.  Drops quickly if you don't have any accuracy boosts.  Has a little negitive synergy with polearm master, but they still work together. Heavy Armor Master: Yes this is a half-feat, but even without the +1 Str, this is near godlike at level 1, but fades as a % of damge taken, and in the number of attacks it can absorbs (more magic).  That said, most don't make it all the way. Lucky: While fairly limited with 3 uses per day, it's versitilie.  Good for anyone who doesn't have any paticular direction. Ritual Caster: Lot's of utilty.  Though you only need 1 caster per party. Shield Master: Some good defense and a nice bonus action for either advantage or to grapple and hold someone. Sharpshooter: Adds some solid damage assuming archery style, as well as some other good benifits.  Improves with other accuracy boosts (advantage, bless, bards), but those can be a little harder to get then the melee counterpart beyond 20 Dex.  Combo's well with crossbow expertise. War Caster: Good for melee oriented concentration.  Note this does NOT combine with polearm master.  Note that resilence is better if you get +5 (or +4 and even con score).   +2 Scondary Stat/Con: Most classes get some solid boosts from their secondary stat. Dual Wielder: Small-ish bonus, but still a bonus.  Better if your DM let's you count a shield as an improvised weapon.  Bonus cool for a dual-whip rogue and a 2 axe dwarf barbarian. Magic Initiate: There are some good choices, but 1/day isn't much.  Most of the time a 1 level dip into the class will get you much more. Medium Armor Master: Only take this if you have 16 Dex and won't raise it further.  Which will be pretty rare to happen, but if you are in that state, +2 AC is ok. Mobile: Helpful on occasion. Mounted Combat: Advantage is pretty good.  But that's offset by needing to keep your mount alive.  Better if you have a reliable mount.  Great if you have a large reliable mount. Sentinal: Helps restricts movement of enemies and keep the focus on you.  Better with polearm master, or stacked defenses (moon druid). Skilled: You already have the skills you want most, but more isn't bad. Skulker: Let's you hide in dim light, light fog, and some other places, even in the dark against darkvision.  Though i find that there's usually a corner near by.  worse for a wood elf, who get's most this already. Tough: +2 con is maginally better, more so for casters, but more HP isn't bad.  Get healer and inspiring leader first.   Dungeon Delver Big bonuses, limited area.  This really depends on the campaign. Elemental Adept Resistances are pretty rare and the damage boost is pretty small.  But if your commited to running a single element character, it's ok. Mage Slayer: Big bonus, limited area.  This really depends on the campaign. Martial Adept Manuvers are good, but the 1 die is too little.  See if you can convince your DM to give you 2 dice. Spell Sniper: There arn't many ranged attack spells, and most of those are cantrips which are weak backup attacks.  You also rarely need extra range.  OK for warlocks with eldrich blast.   Charger: This is really good at level 1, but becomes neigh useless once you get multi-attack.  Even for a 2-handed raging barbarian can match the damage by throwing 2 things and save a feat.  Rogues can dash at level 2.  maybe for clerics. Grappler: Restrained is marginally better then prone+grab.  Which takes 1 attack instead of a full action, and doesn't cost a feat.  Once prone, you get advatage anyways.  And the third point is litterally useless. Savage Attacker: Very minimal damage boost that doesn't scale.
#2 mellored May 23, 2015 11:48:09	Half-feats:  These assume you can make good use of the +1 stat.  Probably more relevent to those who roll dice rather then those who pointbuy.   If you can't make use of the stat,    (Any) Resilence: This scales as you level, so it's not something to rush.  Dex and Wis are the most common saves with Str and Con being not too far behind.  For casters who depend on concentration Con is near manditory.  Better then warcaster past level 13.  Just OK for Int/Cha saves.   Str:  Heavy Armor Master See above, except with the +1 Str actually helping you, this is ideal. Moderatly Armored: potentially +5 AC, though not many can make full use of it. Heavily Armored +1 AC isn't shabby.  Better if you have medium armor and dumped dex, so you'd get +2, +3, or even +4 AC. Lightly Armored: +2 AC is ok.  Though chances are you arn't really using Str if your in light armor. Tavern Brawler: Gives you options when your unarmed.  Bonus action grapple is nice but the conditions keep it limited. Athlete: If you are close to enemies, you don't need to worry about spending movement to stand, if you are far away, the have disvantage to hit you.  It's not too common of a condition either. Weapon Master anyone who uses weapons has them except favored souls   Con: Durable: Very bad with low con, but get's better with Con of 15 or 17 and smaller hit dice.  And is actually very good for 19 con wizards.
#3 OnionDruid May 20, 2015 13:51:31	Since almost everyone can have a strong Nova or Control ability I think Alert should be rated higher. Magic Initiate isn't just 1/day anymore (Crawford update), if it is a spell which you have class levels in then you learn that spell (can cast 1/day through the feat but can also use that spell in your slots). I think that warrants a better rating, sorcerers and every other caster except wizards will love it. Might want to add a note about Dwarves and Clerics and charger, they do particularly well with charger. Attacking once is better than not attacking at all for dwarves and melee clerics have no other use for their bonus action except spell casting and really spamming spiritual weapon/healing word isn't always an option.
#4 Kalani May 20, 2015 14:08:31	Sentinel is absolutely fantastic on a moon druid (15ft wall for front-line tanking). Better if said druid can tag-team with a high AC frontline warrior, allowing the two of them to create a 25ft front line. In fact, on a moon druid - I would rate it sky blue (if not gold), as there are few uses for their ABIs/Feats which compare.
#5 durntaur May 20, 2015 15:14:43	Spell Sniper is awesome, IMO, because of the ignoring half and three-quarters cover.
#6 OnionDruid May 20, 2015 15:16:51	Crossbow expert + spell sniper is an amazing combo as well. Crossbow expert bullet about not taking disadvantage applies to any ranged attack roll, even if it is a spell.
#7 Weedeater May 20, 2015 16:59:50	You're seriously going to put great weapon master as black? Any build that can use it, so not a wizard, should definitely 100% take it.   In fact I'm struggling to think of a class that gets great weapon fighting style that can't use great weapon master in combination with some way to get accuracy. Barbarians have reckless attack, fighters all have something except maybe EKs but I'm sure they have some spell they can use. Paladins all have something except maybe Ancients? I can't remember but devotion gets to give themselves +cha to their attack roles and Vengeance gets to give themselves advantage.    I mean it's okay if you don't want to rate it gold it's your guide but.... What scenario could it be black in? Aside from potentially EK and maybe Ancients? But even then it's probably blue. Like... Moderately armored two tiers above great weapon master?    Great weapon master is like.... THE thing that makes barbarians top damage charts, fighters nova for 100+ damage, and... Well for Paladins it's maybe not AS important but definitely if you're going to use a two handed weapon I feel like the feat is gold...
#8 Weedeater May 20, 2015 17:06:03	Also I think weapon master should be maybe purple for favored souls as they don't get martial weapon proficiency for whatever reason.   I think in general charger is underrated. Especially for barbarians. But I won't rewlly argue in its favor so much. Also weirdly enough maybe for moon Druids.   They really should of given martial adept two dice. That would make it actually worth while for a number of classes...   Otherwise.... I'd like to see mobile and sentinel a little higher but black is probably right.... Though they do give you some really good and unique options.
#9 mellored May 20, 2015 17:29:00	OnionDruid wrote:
#10 mellored May 20, 2015 17:33:33	Weedeater wrote:
#11 Suppoko May 20, 2015 18:26:08	mellored wrote:
#12 Weedeater May 20, 2015 18:28:18	A barbarian with pole arm master can do 1d4 + maxing out at what... What does rage give in the end? +6? So 4+6+7 = 17 damage.   Meanwhile gwm maxes out at +30 with your bonus attack..... Wait actually so +6+7+12 from the extra attack maxed would be 55. I don't see how that's an argument.   Also you can have both. Fighters... Champions get increased criticals. Battlemaster can nova with precise strike or whatever it's called. +1d12 to hit is +6.5....... And you only need to use it when you roll low.    There's a post on reddit about a fighter at level 5 bursting for 100 reliably using GWM. How can you rate that black, and especially below feats like medium armor........... Who even needs medium armor? What class is that rally useful for? Rogues have plenty of defensive options, casters have mage armor and anyway shouldn't even be being attacked. And anyway their stronger defensive options are stuff like mirror image. And not being hit in the first place. And shield.    But okay I wont clog up your thread with more discussion for this. And yes I know looking at max damage is pointless. But............ GWM should probably be gold for any martial class with a two handed weapon period..... And it works with polearm master anyway.
#13 Treantmonklvl20 May 20, 2015 18:59:13	I'm pretty much in agreement, though I'm not sure I agree on a couple ratings:    Moderately Armored: since Medium Armor Proficiency isn't that hard to get.  (Classes that get Light Armor Proficiency are Bard, Warlock and Rogue - these are all decent classes for a multiclass dip)   Healer: This is pretty situational.  So many classes have healing abilities that a party without healing is actually pretty rare.   Inspiring Leadership: Not debating the rating, just want to note that if you don't want to use a feat slot, you can get a very similar effect with the Aid spell.  Actually, you can add a lot more HP with the Aid spell (though you need a recast each time you use it up)
#14 mellored May 20, 2015 19:40:08	Weedeater wrote:
#15 mellored May 20, 2015 19:56:48	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#16 Treantmonklvl20 May 20, 2015 20:02:59	mellored wrote:
#17 GladiusLegis May 20, 2015 20:24:09	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#18 Treantmonklvl20 May 20, 2015 20:32:50	GladiusLegis wrote:
#19 mellored May 20, 2015 20:34:12	There's still a difference between 'deal more damage' and "deal a feats worth more damage'.   i.e. it's not a trap feat, but it's not blue either.
#20 Treantmonklvl20 May 20, 2015 20:40:30	mellored wrote:
#21 GladiusLegis May 20, 2015 20:42:55	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#22 GladiusLegis May 20, 2015 20:46:04	Sharpshooter probably rates higher because of ignoring cover and removing disadvantage at long distance. Very huge benefits even without the hit/damage trade.
#23 FunkySpunk May 20, 2015 20:48:33	mellored wrote:
#24 Treantmonklvl20 May 20, 2015 20:51:23	GladiusLegis wrote:
#25 FunkySpunk May 20, 2015 20:51:28	Weedeater wrote:
#26 FunkySpunk May 20, 2015 20:54:37	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#27 Treantmonklvl20 May 20, 2015 21:08:50	FunkySpunk wrote:
#28 FunkySpunk May 20, 2015 21:28:03	d   Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#29 mellored May 21, 2015 7:06:56	GladiusLegis wrote:
#30 Treantmonklvl20 May 21, 2015 7:24:12	mellored wrote:
#31 mellored May 21, 2015 7:29:45	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#32 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 21, 2015 7:31:25	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#33 mellored May 21, 2015 7:38:37	Bumped polearm master upto skyblue.
#34 mellored May 21, 2015 8:44:34	Fun trick... with defensive dualist.   defensive dualist   1: Shoot a bunch of times with your hand-crossbow. 2: Draw a dagger 3: End your turn. 4: Use defensive dualist to block  5: Drop the dagger   1: shoot a bunch of times with your hand-crossbow. 2: Draw a second dagger. ...   or similarly   1: Attack a bunch of times with your maul. 2: hold it in one hand 3: Draw a dagger. 4: end your turn. 5: use defensive dualist 6: drop the dagger.
#35 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 21, 2015 9:38:10	I think some of the ratings are off because they're not taking into account practical play. Namely: Stat bonuses have lots of value and likely are dominating all the other feat choices until the primary class stat gets maxxed out - for a feat to compete with that, it needs to be really strong. And in that context, feats that don't compete strongly at 12th likely lose a lot of value. That also makes the half-stat feats very, very strong for certain PCs because they can round things off if the benefit is both large enough and they don't have another stat that they'd likely want to add +1 to for some reason. And in that context: Healer - at a certain point, Healing Potions are essentially free and needing to spend an action in combat to use the feat makes it expensive. The average 5-10 treasure hoard is in the 3500 gold range - that's 70 healing potions right there. Inspiring Leader requires that 10 minutes, which can be problematic and then on top of it, the benefit ultimately isn't that big at higher levels. Sure, if the campaign has a big use for gold or doesn't allow purchasing of PHB equipment, they'll have more value, but... Defensive Duelist - we're a finesse weapon user gaining a bonus to our AC for a reaction? Which means we're passing up a +2 to Dex instead? Among other choices? I don't think this feat shows up until 12th usually and at that point, it is likely competing against other reactions. Polearm Master. It has both a reaction and bonus action and it encourages use of a Polearm - which with 5e's movement rules means you can move up to a target, swing at him an extra time, and then back off without an OA. If that target is a melee monster, not a lot of good choices and that works very, very, very well with Barbarian's Reckless Attack. This ought to be Sky Blue simply because most Str-based PCs should want to use a Polearm from a tactical PoV anyway. Great Weapon Master. If any of the math changes for any reason, this gets a lot better. And based on the typical campaign math, it should. Plus most of the classes that gain a benefit from it also gain an accuracy bonus somehow - Battlemaster Fighters with Precision Strike, Paladins with Oath of Enmity, etc... Ritual Caster. Usually you'll have this in most parties and because you're limited to one class, it isn't all that great. Tough. Only if Constitution rounded off does this have a lot of value. So someone with a 13 Con ought to likely be looking at Resilience Medium Armor Master - why did we start with a 16 Dex if we had Medium Armor Proficiency? And why did Dex stay at 16? This feat is likely Purple - you rolled stats really well and/or you're a stealth build wearing medium armor for some reason. Mobile has a number of interesting options, especially in games where melee PCs are at an inherent disadvantage due to distance or terrain. Dual Wielder - the Dex isn't that much of a problem because presumably you're going to raise Dex to 20 as a TWF specialist - because if you were using Strength, Polearm Master is basically strictly better unless you're a Rogue. So this is a feat you pick up after you've already raised Dex to 20 and at that point, it has a range of value. Charger - Not 3e/4e charging - you can hit a creature with a reach weapon and keep moving. Has some interesting options in combo with skirmishing style techniques or closing fast. And the Half Feats have some notable options for builds that need a +1 to a stat. Str: Heavy Armor Master is going to be strong for builds that already have Heavy Armor and the need. Con: Resilience ought to be Sky Blue for those who started off with an odd Con stat, bad Con save and want to raise Con. Dex: Ranged Rogues who need a +1 Dex benefit from picking Weapon Master for Longbow or Heavy Crossbow as it can boost their damage. Int/WIs: Observent is good for Wizards, Clerics, or Druids who need a +1. And possibly the occasional Monk who already boosted Dex to 20.
#36 Treantmonklvl20 May 21, 2015 9:47:05	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#37 FrogReaver May 21, 2015 10:20:41	LOL at great weapon master being black.
#38 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 21, 2015 10:43:48	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#39 mellored May 21, 2015 12:24:23	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#40 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 21, 2015 14:04:34	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #40) Macv12	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#42 awaken_D_M_golem May 21, 2015 16:04:02	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#43 Treantmonklvl20 May 22, 2015 5:33:35	awaken_D_M_golem wrote:
#44 Ashrym May 21, 2015 18:19:43	I like tavern brawler for an angry bard. STR or CON plus proficiency to lute bash someone in the face twice and then initiate a grapple with expertise on a bonus action. The proficiency bonus on the attack roll is important in city campaigns where weapons and material components / foci are restricted.
#45 durntaur May 21, 2015 20:11:52	Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
#46 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 22, 2015 5:07:40	Macv12 wrote:
#47 mellored May 22, 2015 5:32:09	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
(Reply to #45) Treantmonklvl20	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #46) Macv12	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#50 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 22, 2015 10:16:49	Macv12 wrote:
#51 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 22, 2015 10:28:14	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #47) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #52) Ashrym	FrogReaver wrote:
#54 mellored May 22, 2015 11:08:50	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#55 mellored May 22, 2015 11:36:38	FrogReaver wrote:
#56 sudsboy May 22, 2015 12:01:34	Just another voice in the "GWM isn't as good as it initially sounds" camp.  It improves with itemization, target selection, accuracy bonuses, etc., but baseline on a point buy character, my experience with it has been disappointing.
#57 awaken_D_M_golem May 22, 2015 12:36:18	It's the Half-Warforged Half-StonerBurnout Half-Dragon somatic component, RaaaaR !!   Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#58 durntaur May 22, 2015 12:46:42	mellored wrote:
#59 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 22, 2015 12:57:48	durntaur wrote:
#60 mellored May 22, 2015 14:07:15	durntaur wrote:
(Reply to #55) FrogReaver	mellored wrote:
#62 Xeviat-DM May 22, 2015 15:32:31	Thanks for this chart. I've been considering breaking the feats into 2 and getting rid of the +1 Ability portions of the half-feats, but mostly because I don't like the way odd ability scores fiddle with the game. I'd also like to not see ability scores competing with feats, but it's nice to have them as a metric for balance.
#82 Mistwell May 31, 2015 19:03:48	mellored wrote:
#83 Xeviat-DM Jun 01, 2015 0:52:35	Are "black" colored feats here equal to or weaker than +2 stat? Dual Wielder seems weak, as it is +1 AC, +1 damage*, and "can do two interactions". The third part may make up for it, but compared to +2 Dex, it seems behind (+1 to hit, +1 damage, +1 dex save, +1 dex checks, possible +1 AC) and even behind +2 Str (+1 to hit, +1 damage, +1 str save, +1 str checks, and some carrying capacity).   Once your Str or Dex is maxed, it is nice, I suppose.
#84 mellored Jun 01, 2015 5:31:32	Mistwell wrote:
#85 mellored Jun 01, 2015 5:33:20	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#86 Devilbass Jun 02, 2015 19:41:06	Sharpshooter doesn't work with thrown weapons according to RAW.  Has anyone given thought to unexpected repercussions in allowing such a combination as a houserule?   In my eyes it simply gives more use to weapons such as hand axes, daggers and the like.  Characters relying on strength will become considerably more capable of using that stat for ranged fighting as necessary while not overshadowing dedicated DEX ranged combatants.
#87 Mommy_was_an_Orc Jun 02, 2015 20:00:04	Devilbass wrote:
#88 Devilbass Jun 02, 2015 20:33:54	Mommy was an Orc, if that is indeed the case, then I'm happy to hear it.  I just didn't think it was so because sharpshooter specifically calls out ranged weapons, not ranged attacks.  All of the weapons with the thrown property are melee weapons.  The thrown property does not then designate those melee weapons as ranged weapons, it merely states that ranged attacks are made with them.   I point this out not because I think you're wrong, but to point out why I didn't think it was supported according to RAW.
#89 SterlingRat Jun 03, 2015 4:51:17	Devilbass wrote:
#90 mellored Jun 03, 2015 5:11:46	Devilbass wrote:
(Reply to #89) ArialBlack	SterlingRat wrote:
(Reply to #91) SterlingRat	ArialBlack wrote: