Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 QuiveringCoward Apr 21, 2015 15:47:08	Hey All, I've played heaps of 3.5e and DM'd 3.5e and 5e quite a lot, but I'm soon to play 5e for the first time and I need to build my character. So I thought I'd come on here to get some advice.   I want to build a multi-class battlemaster/abjurer (the eldritch knight just doesn't get enough variation or progression in their spells for me) that can handle themselves pretty well in most situations.   My rolled stats are (can be re-ordered): 16, 12, 14, 16, 10, 11 and I can be any race (suggestions are welcome - currently thinking human variant for the feat).   We're starting at 5th level and I guess we'd end up (in time) between 10th and 12th. I did some calculations for a human variant polearm + sentinel using a glaive and it looks like at 5th level they can pump out some big damage whilst keeping some control through opportunity attacks and maneuvers (i.e. menacing attack). By contrast a fighter/wizard using a greatsword (and no sentinel/polearm master) will have more defensive and utility options open to them, but only get one attack and lose some of the battlefield control of the sentinel-polearm build. I especially like the abjurer's arcane ward, but I wonder if this is more my romanticising the idea of it than how it would perform in-game.   All in all, hell, I'll admit that I know a battle master / abjurer build is going to be pretty difficult to pull off, and really it's more of a mid/late game build that requires some hefty MAD. At level 10 with battlemaster 5 / abjurer 5 I'll have access to maneuvers like menacing attack and trip attack, two attacks/round but also to a good selection of level 3 spells. The arcane ward will help me to survive by giving me extra hp that recharges a little with castings of abjuration spells (i.e. shield) and so will other spells like false life (not sure this is worth a level 1 slot in the already taxed build). I'll also have access to spells like haste, fly, dispel magic, invisibility, mirror image, blur, misty step, alter self, disguise self, grease etc - that the eldritch knight could only dream of Haste by the way seems almost broken in this edition (though I know it's one target instead of multiples like 3.5). It can put a greatsword slinging f5/w5 on 20AC with 4 attacks/round, or 2 attacks/round and a spell. Hell you could nova with action surge for a whopping 8 attacks with advantage if you shove the opponent to the floor on the first hit couldn't you (or would action surging only take you up to 6 attacks with haste?)? I know I'll have to pick up warcaster, and that I can't take that as a level 1 human variant fighter which is a little annoying. I guess what I'm trying to say is. At level 5 - what race would you choose, where would you put your stats, and in what weighting of levels would you take between wizard and fighter? This build does sort of go against how the group is meant to play to be the sum of its parts - but I know the people I play with. They are devious, treacherous sods.
#2 Krusk Apr 21, 2015 15:59:45	Have you considered just playing a bard? They are basically gishes in 5e?   I don't optimize too much in 5e, but a Human bard seems like what you want.    Light armor, longsword, and casting. Grab college of Valor and pick up a fighters extra attack, medium armor, shields, and real weapons by level 3. Cast your spells out of combat with a guitar, and carry a shield in combat. Or sing in combat, and carry a shield, cast spells, and use a sword.
#3 Votan_Nailo Apr 21, 2015 16:04:45	Hmmm...in 5th edition multi-classing can be hard to pull off and not dwindle the effectiveness of your character. the Deeper  you go in fighter, the worse of a wizard you will be and vice versa. There is not going to be a perfect middle ground. You could go melee oriented and be effective (Eldritch Knight, Paladin, War Cleric) Or caster oriented and still be effective (Valor Bard, Blade Pact Warlock, Mountain Dwarf Abjurer Wizard(my personal favorite hehe))    But getting a pure mix seems not very effective. I would not go 10 fighter/10wizard and hope to be good at anything
#4 QuiveringCoward Apr 21, 2015 16:19:33	thanks for your feedback both. We already have a bard, so that's out. I wouldn't ever go fighter 10/wizard 10, more like fighter 5/wizard 15 (but we never play at such high levels - bad experiences with 3.5e post 15) I'm tempted to go try an all out fighter polearm build, I'm just scared of the lack of utility - and I've heard battle masters struggle with so few superiority dice. If the guy playing druid doesn't turn up maybe I'll steal moon druid and play that
#5 WizardV Apr 21, 2015 16:33:17	As Krusk suggested, valor bards work well as a generalist if you want to 'handle yourself pretty well in most situations'. My standard advice is to find a niche and specialize rather than generalize. You may be shooting yourself in the foot.   If you're only ending up at level 12, you will almost certainly lose out on the third attack from fighter unless you do the EK thing. If you're going wizard to acquire more spells known and better slot progression you could probably get away with just taking wizard 2/fighter X. Avoid spells that depend on int and just keep your int at 14 to avoid most of the MAD pain.   You need to clarify exactly how much spell progression is going to make you happy if EK 1/3 progression isn't enough for you and if you want your weapon attack to be your primary offense you need to clarify what spells you must have and by what level. Bard is a full spellcaster but isn't going to polearm or greatsword as well as a fighter. The bardic inspiration doesn't apply to you, where precision strike will. They do however have the hand crossbow swift quiver route which is amazing at level 10. Warlock is "kind-of" a full spellcaster but you can blade-lock it up at level 5 and have 2 attacks with great weapon master and level 3 spells which looks like what you wanted on paper.   It's hard to provide advice without a bit more from you. If you want a generalist it's more effective to choose a generalist class than to multi-class.
#6 mellored Apr 21, 2015 16:35:17	fighters do lack utility, but they do plenty of damage
#7 SterlingRat Apr 21, 2015 17:09:15	I personally like the Fighter/Abjurer, but I would go Eldrich Knight for the additional known spells and spell slot increase. Fighter 6 gives you two caster levels, 2 ASI, 2 attacks... then switch to wizard.
#8 OnionDruid Apr 21, 2015 18:50:44	Varient Human (Moderatly Armored) Strength based Rogue (Arcane Trickster) is fun. Use your spell slots for buffing yourself. For a background Urchin probably works the best.   Makes for a fun and interesting "Fighter Mage".
#9 Weedeater Apr 21, 2015 21:17:54	Honestly the thing eks are best at is being essentially abjurers. They get high level slots so late in the game that they aren't horribly useful, but with a high AC and spells like blur, shield, mirror image, etc. being defensive is the easiest thing to make an EK good at. And EK can multiclass pretty well with a wizard if you want to go that route. You'll be casting shield a lot which will help out with your ward. Hell with a ward, shield, plate mail and a shield, and maybe even blur up, you'll be pretty close to untouchable.    If you REALLY want to go battlemaster/abjurer, your best option is to get at LEAST fighter 5 or wizard 5 first (probably wizard 6 or fighter 6 more likely for the wizard ability or ASI) and then multiclass. So you'll be getting the others abilities pretty late in the game. As an EK you'd be getting second level spells before a fighter 5 ek 3 (at level 7), and at 7 you'd be getting war magic which can be useful. But otherwise your casting will pull ahead after 7 and then your fighting will slowly fall behind while casting leaps ahead.
#10 FrogReaver Apr 21, 2015 22:00:43	There might be one way to pull off an abjurer wizard with ONLY a few levels in battlemaster.   Take melee damage cantrips with your wizard.  Acid splash and stuff like that.  (don't use a weapon).   Take the Parry and Rally and Evasive Footwork manuevers.  This gives you damage reduction and evasive abilities and an ability that helps allies out.  You also get action surge and second wind and good armor choices.  Don't even use a weapon.  Instead use wizard cantrips for your damage.  You won't be a melee damage god but you will increase your survivability enough to stay in melee quite a bit and have options to help allies do the same or to get yourself out of melee very easily when you need to be.   You only should take level 3 or level 4 fight for this.
#11 QuiveringCoward Apr 22, 2015 0:12:29	A lot of great suggestions guys - thanks for all taking the time to respond! I think I'm going to sacrifice the battle master idea and go for an EK 6 / abjurer+ build With that stat roll as a human variant level 5 EK I'll have 17, 12, 16, 15, 11, 10 Pick up war caster at level 4 and buff STR to 18 and INT to 16 at level 6. Does this seem sensible?
#12 Mommy_was_an_Orc Apr 22, 2015 8:41:29	QuiveringCoward wrote:
#13 FunkySpunk Apr 22, 2015 14:32:12	FrogReaver wrote: