| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1AerosRegariusApr 18, 2015 11:46:49 | Raised from the dead by a malevolent entity. Ensured of exacting revenge with the promise of a pact.
(Variant) Human, Soldier, Lawful Neutral, S16/D10/C14/I8/W8/C16, Great Weapon Master, Greatsword, Chainmail, Athletics, Intimidation, Perception, Persuasion, Stealth.
Level 01: Fighter 1 (Great Weapon Fighting) Level 11: Warlock 4 (Strength 20) Level 02: Warlock 1 (Hex) Level 12: Fighter 2 Level 03: Warlock 2 (Devil's Sight, Fiendish Vigor) Level 13: Fighter 3 (Champion) Level 04: Paladin 1 Level 14: Fighter 4 (Charisma 18) Level 05: Paladin 2 (Defense) Level 15: Paladin 7 Level 06: Paladin 3 (Oath of Vengeance) Level 16: Paladin 8 (Charisma 20) Level 07: Paladin 4 (Strength 18) Level 17: Paladin 9 Level 08: Paladin 5 Level 18: Paladin 10 Level 09: Paladin 6 Level 19: Paladin 11 Level 10: Warlock 3 (Pact of the Blade) Level 20: Paladin 12 (Constitution 16)
Fighter 1 for armor and Con saves, then warlock for hex, dark one's blessing, and invocations. Up to paladin 6 for extra attack, aura of protection, and lots of smiting. The extra attack will come three levels late but I get many other abilities before then. At 12th level Action Surge, Champion at 13 for lots of criticals when attacking with advantage from Vow of Enmity (also doubling hex/hunter's mark and smite damage, with single rerolls on all 1s and 2s due to Great Weapon Fighting, correct?) . Campaign goes from level 1 till about level 15 so not too bothered about how I max out at 20. I don't see many character builds of three levels, though this one seems solid to me and a lot of fun to play. Can anyone see any serious defects in this character build? Should I ditch the Fighter class altogether, for instance, or is it useful? All advice and comments are appreciated. Thanks!
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| #2melloredApr 19, 2015 8:44:38 | i would proabably switch champion to eldrich knight. pick up shield as a spell, as well as a few more spell slots. or just stop at fighter 2. as for GWF, you'll have to ask your DM. |
| #3DyndrilliacApr 19, 2015 8:51:52 | It's worth mentioning that the game's designers have explicitly stated that Great Weapon Fighting does not allow you to re-roll 1's and 2's on your Smite dice.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/06/great-weapon-smite/
That ruling would apply to abilities like Hex and Hunter's Mark as well. |
| #4MasterNamerApr 19, 2015 9:35:01 | Mike only said how he would rule at a table he was dming. Also, Jeremy is the rules guy for 5e, so it would mean more if he were to weigh in. |
| #5AerosRegariusApr 20, 2015 10:23:23 | Ok, thanks.
Even with just rerolling 1s and 2s on the actual weapon damage dice, having the Champion archetype combined with rolling advantage a lot gives me substantial chances of critting. By my calculations (maybe not 100% accurate), having advantage as a Champion gives me 18% chance of rolling a crit (76 rolls out of 400 give at least one 19 or 20), slightly less then one in five attack rolls. An average critical hit around 15th level would look like 4d6 (weapon, great weapon fighting) + 2d6 (hex/hunter's mark) + 6d8 (2nd level slot smite, of which I'll have four, two replenish at short rests, another four 1st level long rest slots) + 5 (strength) + 10 (great weapon master) = 64.6 points of damage ánd a bonus attack from great weapon master. Since I can get so much extra damage out of the Champion's Improved Critical, it seems like a good choice to me. Also the Action Surge and HD/HP are nice of course. Taking Eldritch Knight will only give me 2 cantrips and 3 1st level spells if I take it to 4th level. The weapon bond is almost redundant due to the Pact of the Blade. Adding 4 levels of paladin instead (from 6 to 10) will give me a 2nd level and two 3rd level slots, seeming vastly superior.
I'm not looking to min/max all the way or dealing out as much damage as possible, I just enjoy optimizing my character and ensuring I'm not gimping him in any way. I come from Ad&d 2nd Edition, where the class options were much more rigid. 5th Edition makes character creation almost like fitting a puzzle together. Warlock/Paladin is what I want, both for the story/flavor I have in mind and the abilities accompanied by it. The fighter levels I am still unsure of. A few levels fighter seem to toughen me up quite a bit, especially starting as a 1st level fighter (Con save is huge for concentration checks). Adding more warlock levels is possible, though probably not the best I can go for. Since the campaign goes to about 15th level (Princes of the Apocalypse, NO SPOILERS please!), levels 13-15 is where I want to be most optimized (though also strong at levels 1-5).
Also, people state that two-weapon fighting isn't as strong anymore in this version. I can see that when making three attacks per round with a two-handed weapon (fighter 11, berserker 5, and so). As a paladin with a greatsword I just make 2 attacks from 5th level up, with a 3rd as bonus action when I crit or hit a target to 0 hp. Yet a paladin with two main attacks and an off-hand attack (dual wielder feat and two weapon fighting as 1st level fighter) makes 3 attacks every round after 5th level paladin, uses hex/hunter's mark per attack, more chances of critting for smiting, ánd adding +5 damage to each attack (after str 20 at level 11). Wouldn't he fare just as good, if not better, than a paladin with a greatsword? The math is complicated, if someone can help me out a bit that would be awesome.
I wanna tell you a bit about my character's story, so if you're not interested, here end the game mechanics. Thanks for reading/replying!
WARNING, POSSIBLE SPOILERS FROM FINAL FANTASY X AND GAME OF THRONES SEASON 3 AHEAD!!!
The character I've in mind came after reading the Oath of Vengeance. Auron from Final Fantasy X immediately came to mind, later followed by Beric Dondarrion from A Game of Thrones. My vision was completed after seeing the Dark Souls 2 Announcement Trailer (see link). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6uyuIQYlfY Basically, my character was a murdered soldier who was raised from the dead by an unknown entity posing as a three-eyed dragon. It brought him back from the dead so that he might take vengeance upon his killers. What agenda this entity has with him is unknown (up to the DM to surprise me!). This entity, of course, is the Fiend, who forces a Pact on him. I would like this patron to appear now and then during the adventures, though only my character can perceive it. It's not invisible, yet exists more like some twisted delusion in his mind. It creates a hellish hallucinatory environment around him, also just within his mind, darkening everything around him and turning it into a horrific, dreamlike scene. As my character sees pits of fire opening up around him and the sun turning black, he walks up to his lost loved ones, dead long ago yet alive in his vision. He begins talking to them with the phantasmal black dragon of smoke and shadow towering above him. Meanwhile the partymembers would just see him walking away from them in a sunlit forest while talking to a tree, while they're taking their short rest, for instance.
Like Auron, my character is driven to finish what he started. Like Beric, he is a weak semblance of life, a pale shadow hovering on the edges of light and dark, feeling somehow incomplete, hollow. The Dark Souls trailer gave me his appearance and more story flavor.
There's more, I plan on writing it out like a chapter from a novel, though I won't bore anyone with too much detail.
What do you think of this character? |
| #6melloredApr 20, 2015 11:03:17 | You cannot have hex and hunter's mark at the same time. You can only have 1 concentraion spell. They also eat up your bonus action, which competes with your GWM bonus action, and your oath of emnity.
Crit's aren't what they used to be either. It's closer to 1.5x damage. With both advantage and smites, champion would give you... 0.0925 * (2d6 maul + 1d6 hex + 3d8 smite) = 2.22 damage per attack. (4.44 per round).
Pretty good, but it takes at least 2 turns to get oath and hex on a target, so that's higher then usual. In comparison, battlemaster gives you 4d8 = 18 damage per short rest, with extra control benifits. And paladin 15, who can make an extra attacks against his oath target.
Two-Weapon fighting isn't the goto for DPR like it was in previous editions, but it's not weak. It fits in a more balanced point between offensive 2-handed and defensive sword & board. Just note that it also uses your bonus action, and thus, has trouble working with other things like oath of emnity and hex. So not worth it for your build. |
| #7AerosRegariusApr 20, 2015 15:43:01 | Cool, thanks mellored.
Yeah, I'll probably stick to my greatsword. Shield is a great spell, but not worth taking at least 3 levels in fighter (eldritch knight) to obtain it, in my opinion. Champion still feels superior to my build. Battlemaster is also really nice though with him also being warlock and paladin I'm afraid of making a character who is too complex to fluidly handle at high level combat.
So right now, calculating till level 15, I'm thinking either Paladin 11/Warlock 4 (Oath of Vengeance/Bladelock Fiendpact) or Fighter 4/Warlock 4/Paladin 7 (With still indecisive of fighter archetype). I suppose both will do the job. Dropping fighter will give me quite some extra spell slots, including being able to cast haste.
Thanks for the advice on bonus action. I didn't take into consideration that it takes two rounds for hex and vow of enmity to go up. Guess that drops the dual wielder concept.
For invocations I was thinking Fiendish Vigor and Agonizing Blast at low levels, and maybe switching the first for Devil's Sight at higher level, since enemies at higher level might be casting darkness plus fiendish vigor seems to become less powerful at higher levels. Repelling Blast can also be useful. It doesn't state I must make a contest with the target to push it. That seems quite powerful in certain situations. Also, will my Eldritch Blast increase in units at character level or only at warlock level? So at paladin 11/ warlock 4 I shoot 3 blasts?
Cheers. |