Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Enryuken Jan 19, 2015 13:05:49	Hi. I'm fairly new to the forums, in fact this is my first post.   In any case, I am hoping that fellow players, maybe other DMs, can help me out with a predicament.   I am, overall, a nice guy. I like playing D&D and having fun. However, I have noticed that in the weekly D&D sessions in the store that myself and my family go to, there is too loose an interpretation of the rules.   Now, to be fair, these guys are considering joining the Adventurer's League. I do want them to join, but I would also like to avoid their heartache that things have changed drastically from the previous editions.   As an example, a player last gaming session tried to say a gnome had the racial ability to prick themselves and go invisible. The DM at the time didn't smack him down or chew him out for bringing that bull to his table.   Another is they use "effects" from hitting things or enemies' actions might cause a miss or disadvantage to the incoming attack. I get the feeling this is a homebrew sorta thing.   While I do like the way the DMs play (it's a big group, and multiple DMs are a must!) I am a bit sad that a lot of the new mechanics are not being used.   My problem is that while I like the variety and the flavor, I want to somehow tell them that "look, I like your sessions, but a LOT has changed and have you guys looked at all the changes yet?" without ruining their mood as DMs or driving players away. The situation has gotten bad enough for me at least that I am considering graduating to DMing myself, something I haven't done more than one or two sessions of.   So, fellow players and other DMs, what should I do about it? How can I break this kindly and how can I help the DMs be better without causing a mess that would make me unwelcome from the shop/table?
#2 Noctaem Jan 19, 2015 13:27:28	I wouldn't talk to them about what they are doing at the table now or in the past.  I would simply start up a conversation with them about their goal to join Adventure League and point out that the DM's there have to really follow the rules in the published books (which they do, AL DM's are not allowed to create homebrew or houserule material as per WOTC).  I would then see where that statement falls.  After a little discussion maybe suggest that the group should check out the rules in the book during sessions to really try and keep it "by the book" so that when they do join AL, they aren't left getting weird looks when they don't follow the book.  Sort of like a practice before the real deal kind of thing.  This way you're not attacking them personally for their custom content, you're trying to be helpful to allow them to reach their goals which might make it much easier to reach your own.
#3 Bladewulf Jan 19, 2015 13:31:46	You should DM...
#4 iserith Jan 19, 2015 14:04:24	Enryuken wrote:
#5 Enryuken Jan 19, 2015 14:32:55	iserith wrote:
#6 Barimen Jan 19, 2015 15:54:32	Enryuken wrote:
#7 Coredump00 Jan 19, 2015 16:02:15	Let me try it from a different angle..   They are not playing wrong.  The Halfling player and the DM seem to be having fun, so they are doing it right.  They may not be following what is in the book, but that is secondary.   Now... you are not having fun. So I see four options. -Determine if  you could accept their 'style' and have fun with it. -Talk to the DM about playstyles and rules etc....  see if they would be interested in playing more 'by the book' -Start DMing yourself -Find another group.   Noctaem brings up a decent idea if you want to talk to them, and don't want to be too direct.  It may even be the best course, but I would be more likely to either accept it, or talk to them more directly.   Iserith's point (I believe) is that the other people are trying to have fun, just like you, nothing they have done warrants being 'chewed out', unless the topic has already been discussed and they are breaking an agreement. Which doesn't seem to be the case.
#8 Illithidbix Jan 19, 2015 17:02:21	For lots of D&D players *not* sticking to the rules and bending them to suit the players at the table is a sign of doing it very very right, not wrong and that niggling little rules discussions is entirely against the point of the hobby.   It's simply a matter of playstyle, and if they're having fun, then they're doing it right. For them.   You're likely to have little luck trying to force them to adopt a more "Tight Rules" approach, and they probably see very little reason to try and stick to new rules because they are new, Sounds like they've had lots of fun   From the sounds of it however they wouldn't suit the Adventurer's League at all and for that matter, neither would I. The idea of “no house rules” is entirely anathema to how I approach roleplay games, despite caring enough about rules to get into the discussions about RAW on these forums. But, I can see the appeal for games in more fluid gaming groups and who've been burnt by “bad DM's” in the past.   What you can do is propose that you want to try a more “by the book” game, perhaps DM'ed by you and see if there are people who are interested.
#9 Noon Jan 19, 2015 17:36:24	Seriously, there is a BIG difference between knowing the rule is X but deciding to break it by doing Y Vs being told the rule is Y (gnomes can go invisible) and treating it as if those are the rules.   There's nothing special about fun that makes anything fun a perfectly fine thing to do. There are plenty of recreational activities where a lot of fun can lead to harm. There's plenty of fun that is just directly harmful.   The fact they think they can do adventurers league with it's stick to the rules requirements speaks volumes about the sort of harm they are doing to themselves - they are losing a realistic grasp of reality there.   I'd also suggest GM'ing a seperate group, with premades.
#10 Illithidbix Jan 19, 2015 17:51:29	Noon wrote:
#11 Noon Jan 19, 2015 18:23:10	It's not a big leap of logic on your part, based on just 400 words, that you know it's not the case? Your position is true till proven false, while mine is false till proven true? Why the inequality?   Further you're reading me, based on just a few words, as saying 'You must take my words as gospel', rather than run experiments of his own (like whether they bother to read the AL rules)
#12 Illithidbix Jan 19, 2015 18:49:49	Noon wrote:
#13 BoldItalic Jan 19, 2015 23:48:52	My advice: lead by example. Show, don't tell.   Let's call it "play by the book" or "strict 5e". Ask around the other players, to see if there are half-a-dozen who think like you, and would like to play that way. If there are, suggest to them that you get together at the same table. Offer to DM if it helps. Have copies of the PHB prominently on view on the table. Be seen to be referring to it sometimes. Then, if your table seems to be having more fun than the other tables, the idea will catch on.
#14 Imaculata Jan 20, 2015 7:18:30	Like Bladewulf said, maybe you should consider starting up your own campaign, and show them what a campaign is like when you do stick to the rules. See if it works, see if they like it. As long as the whole group is having fun, that is all that matters. The rules are just there to solve any disputes, but they can be ignored if the group chooses to do so.
#15 CCS Jan 20, 2015 12:20:44	I have to wonder why anyone would want to hamstring themselves by joining the AL....
#16 CCS Jan 20, 2015 12:26:25	Enryuken wrote:
(Reply to #15) Coredump00	CCS wrote:
(Reply to #15) AaronOfBarbaria	CCS wrote:
#19 Illithidbix Jan 20, 2015 17:28:11	CCS wrote:
#20 Enryuken Jan 21, 2015 0:28:40	Okay. Wow. I didn't expect this kind of conversation when I posted this. I say that in a good way.   Now, first, I am not that interested in starting a campaign. It would be a pain for me to do as I would have to get at least Hoard of the Dragon Queen to get started with. Maybe the starter pack's adventure. My other problem is that I don't have the time to devote to reading up on the campaign material and setting things up. I work a rotating four day, 12 hour shift. At current, between cleaning on off days and taking care of my family, there is no guarantee that I will be able to get into being a DM consecutively enough to give any players under me the time they deserve.   Also, now that I've spotted it... was there a gnome ability from the earlier editions that did that? I asked my step-dad (he's played 1st and 2nd and still has his 1st books at that) and he said he didn't remember any, but a third or so opinion might be helpful on that one.   And, lastly, the reason to join AL is not just handicapping yourself. It's that you want to join something with a character that you can take ANYWHERE. As it is, I'm in Texas at the moment and I would love to be able to go to a convention or table in Lousiana, Oklahoma, Georgia, or anywhere in the US with my sheet and go 'Hi, can I join you guys? I'm from Texas.'
(Reply to #20) Dragoloth	Enryuken wrote:
#22 Noctaem Jan 21, 2015 5:19:58	Dragoloth wrote:
#23 Barimen Jan 21, 2015 14:10:45	Noctaem wrote:
#24 iserith Jan 21, 2015 14:16:09	If we're talking D&D 4e, Fade Away is an Immediate Reaction and can't be activated on your own turn. So you'd have to be damaging yourself on some other turn.
#25 guachi Jan 21, 2015 15:02:01	Illithidbix wrote:
#26 Barimen Jan 21, 2015 15:07:26	In any case, the point is that the player may mistakenly believe that the ability still exists in this edition, shouldn't necessarily be accused of making things up, and possibly doesn't deserve to be "smacked down" or "chewed out".   The DM may have held the same belief, but one may still consider him lax for not checking.
#27 Noctaem Jan 21, 2015 16:42:08	iserith wrote:
(Reply to #25) Coredump00	guachi wrote: