Hi folks! Longtime D&D player, used to haunt the WotC forums back in the 3.0/3.5 days. Getting into 5E and I really like it. There's been a lot of discussion on gishes on these and other forums; while I do like the Eldritch Knight as a fighter with wizardly elements or the Valor Bard as a Cha-based gish, I wanted to create something with the following goals in my mind:
- An arcane, Intelligence-based halfcaster with a good blend of buffing, damage, and utility spells up to 5th level
- Ability to cast spells and attack in one round as a primary class ability, with equal emphasis on both
- Fun to play at all levels (not just a Ftr 11/Wiz 9 level 20 mashup)
- Ability to play many different specialized "magic knight" archetypes (light or heavy armor, one-handed or two-handed weapons, str or dex based, etc.)
- Inspired my multiple gish classes from previous D&D editions (swordmage, duskblade, bladesinger, spellsword, etc.)
Here is my 5E Swordmage, a half-caster arcane warrior with an offensive channeling archetype similar to the 3.5E Duskblade or Bladesinger, a defensive shielding archetype similar to the 4E Shielding/Assault Swordmage, and a mobile sneaky archetype based on the 3.5E Shadowdancer or 4E Umbriri Swordmage.
This has been iterated to Baator and back with feedback from folks on this forum, so hopefully it is balanced and flavorful for 5E. Would appreciate any impressions and critiques so I can revise if necessary. The Google doc is below:
Note: This is not just a 5th edition version of the 4E swordmage. Rather, it is a blend of several different older classes with some new 5E flavor. If you are looking for a more simple port of the 4E swordmage class, try Mellored's swordmage archetype for the paladin class.
Update: Made some balance changes, see post #5 for the lowdown
Update: Made even more changes. Posts #7 and 8 for details.
Update: Some extensive reworking. Post #17 for details
Update: Added a new archetype, the Path of Shadows! Post #23 for details
Update: Made a set of extensive revisions to the class, hopefully the final excepting any minor splatbook updates. See Post #65 for details.
Not to be mean or anything, but i just dont get why people need there to be a specific Swordmage class. There are already so many gish characters out there. Valor Bard, Eldritch Knigt, Bladelocks, Paladins, Rangers. Tell your DM, hey, my Paladin studied his ass off to get his magical abilities, can I be arcane? It changes nothing blance wise, and gets you what you want, a spell caster that kicks melee ass with special spells(smites)
But anyways, With out actually playing this out on a table, this class does look really good. A few playtest, perhaps just quick 1v1 pits on some monsters of appropriate challange ratings at 1st, 5th, 10th levels would be quickest way to test, but i digress. Very well writen and formated.
Thanks for the feedback. Can't speak for everyone else, but I think people just really want an Int-based arcane gish that doesn't require finicky multiclassing to achieve (like Eldritch Knight/Wizard). Valor Bard, Bladelock, and Paladin are all Cha-focused, and the flavor abilities (song/inspiration for bards, pacts for 'locks, healing/anti-evil for pallies) don't align all that well with the classic fighter/mage. To be honest though, my class is kind of a heavily reworked Paladin with Duskblade + Swordmage seasoning =P
I feel it's too good not to want to play anything else other than your class.
I get that you feel that the Eldritch knight doesn't hit the spot. I think that there is a need for this but your execution is too powerful.
d8 hps is a better fit. A single martial weapon and simple weapons is less powerful than all and light armour until level 3 where you may want to look at medium as a bonus.
A fighting style AND extra attack at 5th? It's better than the bard, which I think should be your template including spell progression. Lose the fighting style in favour of the int to combat at level 2/3 or every wizard will dip into this for sure.
Channeling strike is good but I think it belongs at higher rather than lower levels. The +2 to AC to shield is also a wow factor.
Just some of the feedback items I've noted.
I thought about your comments and made several changes, but decided to keep others as they were.
Honestly, if I wanted to play a gish with d8 hit dice and full 9th-level caster progression, I'd just play a bard. I think the current set of swordmage proficiencies and abilities is fairly in line with the other combat half-casters. For example, the paladin gets d10 hit dice, all armor and weapons, fighting style (w/great-weapon-fighting option), and extra attack, with additional healing and other defensive goodies. On the other hand, the valor bard gets full caster progression and 22 spells, spells from other classes, more skills, and party-boosting abilities which fit in with it being more of a support caster role (even with the combat abilities).
I do think you were quite right about it being way too easy to dip in, so I moved a lot of features later:
- Only light armor at 1st level, with Medium Armor gained at 6th.
- Removed shield proficiency, as the Eldritch Ward is the swordmage's shield (and you can't use both at the same time anyway).
- Fighting Style pushed out to 4th level. (If people think the class is still looking overpowered this would probably get the axe)
- Spellcasting cantrips pushed out to 2nd level.
- Switched out Channel Cantrip to 7th level and moved Arcane strike to 3rd level, as it is the less powerful ability.
- Rmoved the 4th use per day of channeling at 17th level because 3 per short rest is enough as it is
Also, clarified that Intelligent Blademaster does not add Int bonus on top of Str/Dex to attacks; it actually replaces that modifier. I can't really see that many mages dipping just for this as they want to be using cantrips in combat anyway.
Oki...
First i love the concept, always been a fan of swordmage 4th ed, BUT... yours is too OP.
Why would anyone want to play anything else? I mean medium armor, all weapons, d10, 5 level of spells + cantrips, versatile and powerfull spell list and other goodies.
To top it off: 2 very decent archetypes... is there anything NOT good in your post?
I'm not bitching, just pointed the obvious: it's OP, even with your changes.
Now, to fix it... keep it a fighter, a variation of the EK. Ya you'll lose spells, and a few goodies, but hey: can't have it all!
You can't compare to bard (full caster) or pally (way to offensive, arcane vs divine) so stay true = fighter but use your archetype instead of EK.
Love the channeling swordmage, fit right in, a more melee type EK, focus on their bonded weapon. Abilities are ok power wise and thematic. Change the spell list to add more touch spells (for channeling strike) and we have something good here. Intelligent blademaster and elemental scourge could be squeeze in replacing other features.
Now, aegis swordmage... keep it mostly unchange, add eldritch ward (very aegis like) and voilà!
Anyway, just my 2 cents... hope it help
Alright, time to bring in the nerf bat...
I appreciate the fighter archetype advice, but I'd like to avoid that route because it is too focused on 80/20 fighter/mage split, and thus has features like 3-4 extra attacks which I don't think fit in with the class. I'd like to stick to the half caster, 2 attacks concept.
In thinking about the design, it'd perhaps be best to compare against the Fighter 11/Wizard 9, which gets 3 attacks, ~d8 hit dice, all weapons and armor, action surge, cast cantrip + attack, 5th levels spells known for all wizard spells, and 6th level spell slots. The swordmage should have some of these, but not all, and should fill in with the archetypes and ability to cast + attack. So here are the next set of changes:
- Reduced hit dice to d8 (average of d10/d6, makes sense and makes Constitution even more important)
- Reduced number of cantrips from 4 to 3 (same as EK. Cantrips are more powerful than I was giving them credit for)
- Removed the Greater Eldritch Ward +2 bonus to saving throw (enough powerful abilities already, and Medium Armor is a significant defensive upgrade)
- Elemental Scourge now requires a short or long rest to change damage type, not just an action (less options for powergaming an encounter)
- Moved Fighting Style to 3rd level (still a very significant dip for a wizard).
- Massively nerfed the archetypes. Each archetype is now chosen at 7th level, and the 3rd level ability is gone or moved:
- Channeling Swordmage gets only one use of Channel Cantrip per short rest starting at 7th level. Flash Step (teleport) is an addon gained at 14th level, similar to Arcane Charge for a fighter. Finally, Arcane Fury no longer has the damage bonus and advantage on attack rolls.
- Shielding Swordmage gets only one use of Aegis of Shielding per short rest starting at 7th level. Assaulting Aegis is an addon gained at 14th level, as a counterpoint to Flash Step (and still gets an attack, because Channel Cantrip already scales better than Aegis of Shielding). Finally, Total Aegis removes the advantage to saving throws but still keeps resistance to all types of damage.
- Spellsword Mastery: Changed this up a bit. Now it only works once per short rest, but you also gain advantage on the attack roll. Thus, a nice flashy capstone to use every once in awhile, but still limited compared to what it was before.
The only thing left might be reducing the spell list if it still looks like a problem. Honestly, I'm not very good at that and would appreciate advice on how to cut the spell list down if necessary, without losing the key gish buffs and AoEs.
Thanks for the all the comments. I appreciate everyone's advice and want to make a balanced class that maintains the flavor and spirit without crowding in on the existing classes and archetypes. This looks like a gish that doesn't overshadow the EK (more hit points, more attacks, action surge, heavy armor) or the Valor Bard (9th level spellcasting, bardic inspiration, more spells)
Based on feedback from the folks over at the GitP forums, I did some reworking of the Swordmage class. Here is a summary of the changes:
- Cut down the cantrip list and spells list substantially. It is much more focused and fits the Gish/Adventurer-Archaeologist theme a bit better.
- Spellsword Flourish and Spellsword Mastery now only work for spells of 1st level or higher, which removes potential cantrip damage abuse. Also Mastery reverts back to an at-will rather than a 1 minute power-up ability because it is now limited by spell slots (the previous change was too much like a paladin capstone).
- Fighting style is now reworked into the Archetypes as a 3rd level ability--Dueling for Channeling Swordmages, Protection for Shielding Swordmages. This fits the flavor a lot better.
- Aegis of Shielding is now at-will, but can only be used for allies and not yourself (essentially it extends Protection out to 30 feet). Much more useful ability now.
- Channel Cantrip replaced by Arcane Strike, where you can expend spell slots to increase damage (+1d6 per spell level up to +5d6) with your bonded weapon until your next turn. Can potentially deal more damage than Pallies but unlike smite it's not guaranteed (you must activate before making any attack rolls).
Check out the Google doc above for details.
Hi, I think you've got a lot of good stuff, but some of the class sticks out to me.
- Paladins and Rangers, the other half-casters, don't get any cantrips. I think this is a trait of half-casters, not just those 2 classes.
- Cantrips are always lumped into the Spellcasting class feature, and thus they wouldn't be aquired until level 2 for a half caster anyways.
- Halfcasters, which mix martial ability and spellcasting, don't need cantrips. They have weapon attacks which are the things that cantrips replace for spellcasters.
- Why is the only thing this class gets at level 6 an armor proficiency? I see no real reason not to either replace that feature with something more in the theme of the class or to simply grant it at level 1.
- Eldritch ward should not simple replace shields. It should have its own quirks or drawbacks. Perhaps it would be better if eldritch ward A) didn't work in heavy armor, B) granted +1 AC even while 2 handing, C) acted more like the Arcane Ward from the Abjuration Wizard School, or D) acted more like a paladin Aura, granting +1 AC to yourself, and to nearby allies if you take the Shieldmage Archetype.
- Spellcasting doesn't align with the table. The feature says cantrips at level 2, the table says at level 1.
- You should try to write your class features more in the 5e style. Right now they have lost of lists defining how they work. Make it more like an explanation you could read to your players to give them an idea of how the feature works.
- Intelligent blademaster is nice because it reduces MAD, but it also makes this class much better than paladin or ranger. I would scrap it and replace it with an out of combat ability.
- Limit the damage types Eldritch resistance can cover. Things like Psychic and Magical Bludgeoning/piercing/slashing should not be allowed.
- 20th level feature needs to be re-written. As is, you can cast ANY spell as a bonus action, including spells with 10 minute cast times. I would say that it should allow you to make 2 attacks or use the Attack Action as a bonus action when you cast a spell as an action.
- I think you should move fighting styles back to second level to match paladins and rangers. Having it as the sole class feature at 3rd level is weak, and a little lazy. Add more flavor to those Archetypes!
- I like Arcane Strike, but allow it to be declared after the attack hits, like Divine Smite for paladins.
- Change Flash Step to cast Misty Step as a bonus action for free once per short rest or long rest, also learning misty step.
- I would say that you could make arcane fury more fun by having it leave an after-image of yourself until the start of your next turn, but set the attacks to 3 or 4 instead of Int modifier.
- Make Total Aegis only as a reaction to an eligible ally you can see getting attacked (before they're hit) no reason to use it as a bonus action if no attacks are going to happen.
- Ditch most of your attack cantrips, that's what weapon attacks are for.
Good luck! like I said, I really like it and I want to help you improve it! Check out my guides if you want to, they have a lot of info on 5e class structure and design! http://community.wizards.com/forum/dungeon-master-help/threads/4172966
JamesMusicus wrote:
I really like a lot of your ideas, one thing that rubs me oddly is the intelligent blademaster, no other class gets to use their spellcasting modifier as their damage mod too, it means that your class would only need a beastly int score to be good. To me the fun thing about a gish was the tightrope, the balance between brain and brawn that made them terrifying fighters even without the magic.
My advice? These guys are supposed to be geniouses who study fighting, let them do that. Give them options that let them be even more tactical, for instance the ability to cast a non-damaging cantrip as a bonus-action, mess with the cantrip list to give fewer damaging options and give more combat-control options. even having more cantrips wouldnt be a bad thing either if you had more options than just different damage spells. This could even be reflected in the spells at higher levels, thunderwave only instead of burning hands, lower damage more utility, your spells control combat, your sword deals the damage.
just my opinions
miburo99 wrote:
Why is it that homebrew classes always include significant abilities that reduce the need for multiple high stat stores?
I would also agree that Intelligent Blademaster and cantrips have to go away. While I understand the reason for it - there has to be a way to achieve this that is more in line with the 5E design. If the class needs ranged option - it has spells.
Without cantrips and Intelligent Blademaster though - the class is going to need another interesting mechanic as well as a way to make up for the fact that it is the only class that has to use two attack stats (Melee Clerics, Valor Bards, Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters have the same problem, but they ususally focus on melee attacks and spell buffs, so their Spell DC is less relevant).
Spellsword: At 1st level, you learn how to make your weapon strikes undercut a creature’s resistance to your spells and use residual magic from said spells to empower your fighting style.
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn.
When you use a spell, untill the end of your next turn you can use a bonus action for a special effect depending on the type of spell used.
Evocation: Your next weapon attack deals +1d6 damage of the same damage type as the spell used (or force damage if the spell had no damage type). If you have the Elemental Scourge feature - it's damage is likewise changed until the start of your next turn.
Transmutation: You chose one of the following effects that last until the start of your next turn:
- Resistance to acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder damage (your choice).
- Blindsight up to a 30 ft.
- 10 ft. increase to speed and 5ft. increase to jump distance.
Abjuration: Your next weapon attack can attempts to dispell one beneficial magic effect (at random) from the target as if using a dispell magic spell and you gain advantage against dispell attempts targetet against you until the start of your next turn.
Conjuration: You can swap places with an ally within 30 ft.
Enchantment: Your next weapon attack attempts to confuse (as the spell) it's target for 1 turn if it fails a wisdom saving throw.
Illusion: You can create a distracting illusion that can affect one enemy within 30 ft. if it fails a wisdom saving throw giving him a disadvantage on his next attack until the start of your next turn.
I would also reduce the damage from elemental scourge to 1d6 and also make it grant +2 attack to spells that use the same type of energy while its active.
Ganymede425 wrote:
Well, to be honest before lvl 13 the Eldritch Knight does not have many spells that he might be interested in casting with advantage, so there is that... but you are right I guess.
I think reduce the potency of the feature and make it grant the swordmage a stackable +1 DC/Magic Attack per successfull melee attack (un to his intelligence modifier). It is somewhat weaker, but it also it also helps attack spells (not only those with DC). It also cathes the flavor of a closing spell, rather than opening salvo which is relatively worse from optimisation point of view, but buff spell into melee attacks into damage spell is cinematically better and the class is already on the strong side, so it is nice balance step.
The pottential for double stacking intelligence to attack/DC is not really an issue since Int should cap at 20 and +5 attack/DC is comparable to advantage in most cases, not to mention that the swordmage does not have the abdundance of feats that the fighter gets so we are most probably looking at 16 Int and using two-three attacks to get his chance for success right there with the 20 Int wizards.
The class also suffers from pretty much zero incentive to use Strength over his Dex as a physical attack stat which might or might not be an issue. It is already heavy in the way of abilities and features so the only way to help that is to allow it to use two handed heavy weapons.
Okay, next revision is up. Summary of the changes:
- Intelligent Blademaster is gone.
- Damaging cantrips removed, and number of cantrips known reduced by one.
- Fighting styles added back in at 3rd level (Defense, Dueling and Protection). No GWF style to slightly limit damage potential, though if folks think it's not overpowered I can add it in.
- Aegis of Shielding changed to take fighting styles into account. Basically, the archetype either gives you the Protection style, or increases its effectiveness if you already have it. Also that ability now scales over the three archetype levels, and is usable with non ward-using characters.
- A pair of Int-based out-of-combat abilities added, Lore Seeker and Roads Scholar (Yup that's a pun, and a pretty bad one. The working title was Journeyman Scholar but this is way more hilarious).
- Eldritch Resistance (too powerful and similar to Warlock ability) replaced with Strength of Mind, which is also more flavorful for the class (add Int mod to a non-proficient save once per short rest)
- Spellsword Strike added at 6th level as a means to compensate for loss of Intelligent Blademaster. Works similar to what RPGBG suggested, but with some changes
- Added heavy armor proficiency in order to make Str-based swordmages viable. Also without Intelligent Blademaster two-handed weapons are viable as well.
- Medium armor rolled back to 1st level. Multiclassing still limited to light armor.
- Expanded the Weapon Bond (renamed to Swordmage Bond) and Spellcasting sections
- Changed the equipment list to offer a heavy armor and a light armor option more in line with PHB classes
Also, I added a single piece of homebrew equipment at the end of the doc; the Saber, a 1d8 slashing finesse weapon. It's always bothered me that there isn't one in the PHB, and it doesn't seem unbalanced. Another names may be more appropriate for the stats (e.g. Arming Sword, or Sidesword)
I like the way your class is coming along... mind if I borrow a couple of ideas for my homwbrew Gish?
Sure, feel free. Many of the ideas came from other folks on this thread or at the GitP forums anyways. I'd appreciate if you could post or PM me a link to your class when you're done though, would be great to see alternate interpretations of the gish archetype 
Hadn't really though of this before, but what do people think about having the Swordmage class use a spellbook and prepare spells instead of spontaneous casting? It would probably be similar to a Paladin (prepare 1/2 swordmage level rounded down + Int modifier), except instead of knowing the whole list it has a spellbook which contains 2 1st-level spells and gains a single new spell every level.
Seems more in line with the flavor of the class (adventuring for lost knowledge, including more powerful spells. Also the intellectual swordmage prepares for battle ahead of time). It would on average lower the amount of prepared spells (anywhere from 10-15 spells at 20th level), but would gain more spells known overall. Would also make the ritual spells on the list more useful, though there are very few of them to begin with.
Sent you the PM, 2 days ago... hope you liked it
BTW, since then think I have a way to make the swordmage archetype work with my class, will PM you later
Posting my PM to OP so anyone can see it:
- Arcane Attunement: Minor Illusion is the cantrip you wanted. Silent image is a 1st level spell.
- For the spellbook, I would start with 3 or 4 spells known. 2 Doesn't give you any flexibility with preparation and whatnot. The reason wizards start with 6 is because they can't prepare more than 4 at first level.
- I'm not sure why you gave them medium and Heavy armor and no shield proficiency... I would probably just give them medium and shields or Light only and let arcane ward do the work for shielding.
- I still REALLY think you need to move the archetype to level 3 and the fighting style to level 2. It's just a 5e thing. Anything else makes the class seem really out of place in 5e and any player is gonna look at it and go "What? No archetype until 7? **** that noise!"
- Spellsword Flourish should NOT allow you to make a bonus action attack before casting a spell. That's just not how chronology works.
- Elemental Scourge seems really out of place in the core class compared to everything else. Maybe move it to an Elemental focused archetype? Something similar to Way of the Four Elements monks maybe?
- Strength of Mind should say "You may choose a saving throw" at some point for clarity.
- I feel like Flash Step should only be before attacks. Otherwise it's a free instant disengage.
- The Aegis of Shielding range improvement should be listed under itself, not under assaulting Aegis.
Hi folks! Made several balance changes (some of which addressed the issues listed above). In addition, added a new archetype: Shadow Swordmage, focused on stealth and subterfuge.
A summary of the changes:
- Added the Path of Shadows Archetype. The intent was to add more sneaky and mobility options to the Swordmage class.
- Split Swordmage Bond among 1st and 3rd level to to keep in line with EK bonded weapon abilities
- Replaced Insight skill with Stealth in order to facilitate the new Shadow archetype
- Lowered Lore-Seeker to one skill in order to add in a 3rd level Archetype ability
- Added in minor 3rd level archetype abilities based around skills
- Removed cantrip progression and last few combat cantrips; instead, gain one minor utility cantrip at 1st level as an ability (Arcane Attunement)
- Switched from spontaneous spellcasting to spellbook + prepared spells. This fits in much better with the flavor of the class (intelligent, deliberate preparation) and makes ritual spells slightly more useful.
- Moved Fighting Style to 2nd level. Removed Protection style, and added GWF and TWF fighting styles
- Moved Eldritch Ward to 3rd level, and lowered bonus to +1 AC. This is because original +2 bonus made War Caster unneccessary. Now you choose between +1 AC bonus and free hand, or War Caster and +2 AC bonus with a real shield.
- Added shield proficiency due to Eldritch Ward changes.
- Strength of Mind clarified as allowing you to add Int bonus to a single saving throw roll once per short rest
- Added a 3rd level skill-based ability for Channeling and Protection archetypes (now relabeled Arcane Paths)
- Aegis of Shielding reworded to not depend on Protection fighting style. Now this is an independent ability.
Hey, if you are still bent on having cantrips, then you can make a new cantrip for the Swordmage, similar to Shillelagh from the Druid: bonus action, duration 1 minute - use INT for your attack rolls using a bladed weapon in place of STR or DEX.
Or, you can just let the Swordmage focus on INT and DEX as their two stats and they can use Finesse weapons, which allows them to make use of their DEX score for more than just AC.
Undrhil wrote:
I think a far better way to go would be give them an arcane ward spell that adds their INT mod to AC instead of DEX in light armor and light armor proficiency only. Could be daily in duration so you cast it in the morning and done. STR/INT vs. DEX/INT would be a conscious choice. Skills/Initiative vs. bigger weapon choice, etc. Also opens up more MC options. Spells should recharge on a short rest and it really needs a Dimensional Vortex-type spell.
So out of curiosity...why have this as a new class? Why not MC Fighter/Wizard? The Abjurer's Arcane Ward fits the 4e swordmage's ward (and given the fact that in 5th, there's less of a race to 'big numbers', seems a bit more useful). It would address your concerns about whether you should call this a 'half-caster' (and allow players to customize their progression).
Not trying to put the idea down as much as understand where the MC FW doesn't measure up in your eyes.
Because it doesn't work. A Fighter/Wizard is traditionally a character that casts spells until he runs out, then swings a sword. The 5E version isn't much better and is MAD as hell. A Swordmage plays MUCH differently. He's an arcane swordsman, lightly armored but arcanely protected, who stands primarily on the front line and using his arcane skills to protect, redirect and ward. He wades in to teh fray to pull an ally out, often staying there himself as the focus of enemy fire. He's between recon and tank, as mobile as the former and as durable as the latter, and direct about it.
...so he's an EK, then?
Jesus H Fraking Christ, no. Pull your head out and actually read what we're trying to accomplish. The Eldritch Knight is almost the exact opposite of what the concept is.
Hehe. FYI, there is no "t" at the end of my first name. Just sayin'...
Anyway, an EK can totally be described as, and built around, the basic feels of:
"arcane swordsman, lightly armored but arcanely protected, who stands primarily on the front line and using his arcane skills to protect, redirect and ward. He wades in to teh fray to pull an ally out, often staying there himself as the focus of enemy fire. He's between recon and tank, as mobile as the former and as durable as the latter, and direct about it"
Yep. That sounds like the EK to me...
Gunthar wrote:
Avross wrote:
Gunthar wrote:
Swordmage... as a paladin sub-class.
lvl 1: Magic Missile, Mage Armor
lvl 2: Mirror Image, Misty Step
lvl 3: Elemental Weapon, Haste
lvl 4: Fire Shield, Dimension Door
lvl 5: Mislead, Destructive Wave
Level 3:
Arcane Shielding: You can cast mage armor at-will.
Elemental Smite: When you use divine smite, or improved divine smite, you can choose to deal fire, lighting, or cold damage instead of radiant.
Channel Divinty:
Aegeas of Shielding: As a bonus action, you magicly mark a creature within 60' of you. If that creature deals damage to a creature other then yourself, and is withing 60' of you, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage by 1/2.
Aegeas of Assault: As a bonus action, you magically mark a creature within 60' of you. If that creature deals damage to a creature other then yourself, and is withing 60' of you, you can use your reaction to teleport next to that creature, and make a melee attack against it.
Aegeas of Ensaring: As a bonus action, you magically mark a creature within 60' of you. If that creature attacks a creature other then yourself, and is withing 60' of you, you can use your reaction to teleport the creature next to you, and you become the target of the attack instead.
Level 7:
Aura of Enchantment: You and friendly creatures within 10 feet are considered to be wielding magic weapons and magic armor with a +1 bonus. If you already have magic weapons and armor, increase their bonus by 1. At level 18 the range of this aura increases to 30'.
Level 15:
Aura of Elements: You and friendly creatures within 30' have resistance to fire, lighning, and cold damage.
Level 20:
Elemental Master: As a bonus action, you can cast Elemental Weapon, as a level 3 spell, on a weapon you are holding. This does not take concentration, and ends if you let go of the weapon.
I like your homebrew, it seems very balanced now.
Nice mechanics, very flavored, some little RP class feats...
Thanks for the homebrew !
mellored wrote:
miburo99 wrote:
mellored wrote:
I took a look on the path of shadow... It feels like the lvl18 "Cloack of darknes" ability giving invisibility to you + X allies (X=int modifier) that cannot be stopped even by taking the attack action is a little too strong for 1 minute (10 round). Basicaly once per long rest the all group is in godmod, ennemies get disavantage on attacking + every attacks from the group has the advantage.
It feels like it should be a 1 round nova for the all group, the effect should end individualy for each ally at the end of their next turn.
And last for X round for the swordmage (X=Int modifier).
Lysandre01 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Hi Miburo,
Been watching this for a few months hoping to see if you had updated at all. Sorry for a necrobump but I had a few questions.
1) Would you ever consider expanding Spellsword Strike to any cast spell in the event someone wanted to explore multiclassing?
2) Have you looked at the new spells which came out in Elemental Evil and if so, had you considered including any on the Swordmage Spell list?
Mithroy wrote:
miburo99 wrote:
Mithroy wrote:
I had a feeling the infusions would be named after level 1 abilities, there were a few guys over on the enworld forums back in October working on a Swordmage build that named their level 1 spells after them also.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?372287-Swordmage-class
Speaking of which, yesterday I reminded myself about the Fighter Battle Master Archetype and started combining a few things from your Swordmage with theirs and with Battle Master... deciding if it would be best for that to be its own thread, I don't want to hijack yours but I would like to pass around ideas.
As for Spellblade being overpowered... I think one use is actually underpowered, but multiple uses could reach overpowered status, may have to play with the middle ground.
So my idea hinges on an idea which may not be plausible...
Is it possible to have a class which uses the Battlemages Manuvers AND half-progression spellcasting in the same base class? Or would it be too overpowered without moving Manuvers to at least the archetype like Fighter has.
For example the new spell-less ranger traded half-casting for manuvers AND a few assorted extras, but would it have ever been possible for them to co-exist if other things were removed instead?
Mithroy wrote:
miburo99 wrote:
Mithroy wrote:
...and hot on the heels of the last post, some updates to the Swordmage class!
Based on a lot of feedback and testing, the class is a bit too fragile as a front-line melee class. So increasing to d10 hit dice makes sense. However, the damage potential might be too large then (it was a bit of a glass cannon in testing), so need to consider reducing.
Also, Arcane Strike can lead to some overwhelming novas, especially when coupled at high levels with Arcane Fury. And, Arcane Strike seems possibly too similar to Paladin's smiting abilities.
I also wanted the option to incorporate the new Spellblade ability from the post above, in order to make the class a bit more Swordmage-y. But how to best incorporate that?
Thus, I present to you three different versions of the Swordmage, and would like feedback on which one makes sense.
This is the original class without Spellblade, but following balance changes:
- Increased hit dice to 1d10
- Changed spell list a bit and added some new spells from the Elemental Evil Player's Companion.
- Downgraded Arcane Fury to no more than 2 attacks per single target to prevent crazy novas on any one target.
I worry that this version might be a bit overpowered with d10 hit dice and potential damage dealing from both arcane strike and two-handed weapons. Maybe not, though. Also, no Spellblade.
So, here are the other version with Spellblade:
All Weapons with Channeling Spellblade
This one replaces Arcane Strike (the Channeling Swordmage smite-like ability) with Spellblade from above. It also replaces 11th level Elemental Scourge (+1d8 elemental damage) with Intelligent Blademaster (+Int to damage, similar to Warlock's Lifedrinker). Thus the Channeling class becomes the more "elemental-esque" subclass leaving the core class to be more generic and tunable. But, you don't get Spellblade unless you choose the Channeling subclass. And you lose a bit more of the nova potential with Channeling, but that might not be a bad thing, as the class is less like the Paladin and more something of its own, while still retaining options for weapon customization.
One-handed Weapons with Spellblade
This version goes back to my original intent for the class, wielding a weapon in one-hand and casting spells in the other. Spellblade replaces Fighting Styles as a result, and the main class maintains an elemental theme. The Channeling swordmage retains the Arcane Strike ability and becomes the nova subclass. Personally I think this is the most interesting and potentially balanced of the 3 options, but it may not provide the flexibility (in terms of weapon choice/fighting styles) that people like about 5E.
So, would love feedback from people on which of these three to go with.
miburo99 wrote:
Personally, was going to make a Spear-mage adventurer archeologist character who obviously wouldn't be possible with the one-handed weapons only route.
I actually really like option B, where the idea of a chaneller actually becomes the Channelling subpath. What you're developing here is really an Arcane Gish archetype that stands on its own, and I'm not sure that we need both Spellblade elemental channeling and the 4e Swordmage Aegises in the same subclass. You called the subclass the Channelling Swordmage for a reason; it should feel fundamentally different from the Shadow Swordmage and the Shielding Swordmage. By putting Spellblade into the main class, Channelling becomes more of a "I focus my abilities on the Spellblade concept" while the others instead add something new and different while still also "channelling". It's kinda like how people took issue with the Berserker Path for Barbarians and Champion Archetype for Fighters: they aren't as much archetypes of what these classes are but basic "add-ons" for the player who doesn't want to make choices and just wants to hit things and lay on the hurt.
Furthermore, the other differentiating feature of martialesque classes is the Fighting Style. By getting rid of Fighting Style, you're eliminating a host of different character archetypes that would transform the feel of the class in ways that only subtly affect the functionality of the class (Fighting Style choice provides roleplaying with a big bang of for the buck). Removing it also severs ties with the Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger, who, as you can see in the current Unearthed Arcana, are being granted new "overhead" options through Fighting Style (the first of which being the Mariner Fighting Style, an easy add-on to the Swordmage's list to create a swashbuckler type swordmage, even more so than the Duellist style!). I also have to question WHY you would want to eliminate Fighting Styles and also force Swordmage into a one-handed weapon user – if you're going that far, you might as well force Swordmages to become actual Swordmages and make a bond with a one-handed Sword rather than anything else. It arbitrarily limits the class, making it less of a class and more of a single archetype that has a few expressions. The original intent, as I understand, was that the Eldritch Knight archetype of Fighter wasn't broad enough to capture the feel of a Swordmage; it all but required heavy armour, for example. This was from a lack of options (being a subclass and all), and the impetus for building this class from the ground up. In doing so, you would be building a class that provides flexibility for players that the Eldritch Knight does not. Therefore, I do not understand the desire to LIMIT that flexibility to a single type of character (one-handed melee weapon users that can cast in their off-hand). That a VERY specific thing to call a class. No other class is THAT specific. Even Monks can use short swords if they want to, dramatically altering the flavour of the character without changing the balance or mechanics really at all (and one can imagine a sword fighting wuxia character knowing a bit of mixed martial arts as well).
As a side-note, Fancy Footwork is now the name of a Rogue subclass ability, so I'd suggest changing the name for the Channelling Swordmage level 7 feature. The Rogue one more accurately reflects the concept of Fancy Footwork to boot. I'm not sure what a better name for this equally compelling Swordmage feature would be, though.
In take-away, I would highly suggest you go with option B, which provides the most consistency of choices (channelling is pushed into the channelling path, rather than something Channellers just do better than everyone else) and the most breadth of choice (Fighting Styles opens up this door way). As an added benefit, as you said, the class begins to feel less like an Arcane Smiter and more like something else. It's easy enough to go Mellored's way if we want an Arcane Paladin. This Swordmage has the makings of a great, new, and different class. I just hope that you don't close the doors down and turn it into a one trick pony (remember the Bladesinger in 4th Edition? Great flavor, but really limited…).
My biggest objection is that every single ability seems designed to give combat advantage. Classes in the PHB have lots of "flavor" abilities. The abundance of combat abilities certainly makes the Swordmage overpowered.
I wouldn't say the class is overpowered so much as lacking Ribbons (Dev term for flavor abilities as explained in this month's Unearthed Arcana). The power level is relatively balanced from my testing of it. Also, spells are major utility features that are not necessarily for combat (and if you do choose combat spells, you have fewer utility spells to work with and vice versa).
Swordmage Bond is the only real ribbon in the main class, but it's spread out with two ribbons at 1st and 3rd levels. Lore Seeker, Arcane Attunement, and Roads Scholar all provide non-combat utility features (the rest of which are covered by the Swordmage's spells). The Swordmage doesn't need any more non-combat utility features nor more combat features, but it does need more ribbon features (features that don't need to balance against anything).
Furthermore, they already have a non-combat utility feature at Lv 7, and very flavorful Lv 3 and Lv 14 features, and powerful Lv 18 features. It would be hard to add ribbons to the class without overloading the class with features. If you add an extra ribbon at 3rd level for each subclass, you're competing with the Swordmage Bond II ribbon at 3rd level. If you add a ribbon at 7th, the ribbon would be competing with the 7th level non-combat feature. If you add it at 14th, it's a bit too late. If you add it in the main class, there's no good place to add it.
Looking at the Path of Shadows Swordmage, the Hide as a bonus action at 7th level is really a combat utility feature, while the other two subclasses have non-combat or combat utility features. It may be worth considering altering the Umbra Swordmage's 7th level feature to be useable out of combat as well as in combat. Beyond that, I don't really see all that much that needs to be done in terms of ribbons.
@Marandahir mind checking out my elemental Warrior i'm making. It's also on the players help section. Still a work in progress so need balancing tips and help finishing it.
Sorry I’ve been away from the forums the past couple weeks. I appreciate the feedback and am thinking through several balance changes as well.
Marandahir wrote:
I've been thinking about the 7th level Darkblade feature, and would suggest something just a little bit more than a ribbon, but something that won't affect every character: you gain darkvision out to 60ft, allowing you to hide in complete darkness without worrying about not being able to see. The hide as a bonus action makes the hiding more effective in combat, while you don't need that bonus action outside of combat, but the darkvision sure comes in handy if you're one of the few races that don't get Darkvision. Maybe it's even superior Darkvision, akin to what Drow get, out to 120ft. Then even if you do get Darkvision, unless you're a Drow, it still is a little benefit. But maybe that comes with abuses I'm not thinking of. I think Darkvision is just the right amount of extra umph the feature needs, but does that make it too powerful compared to the other builds? It might be a little bit too much. Either way, it would be a really sad Path of Shadows Swordmage who can't see in the Dark because he or she's a Human (or Halfling, or Dragonborn, or the few other races released since Player's Handbook that lack DV).
Whle Darkvision could potentially be useful, the missing ability to me right now is for the Path of Shadows Swordmage to actually, well, manipulate shadows. The intent of the "Into Thin Air" ability was use bonus action hiding as a simulating shadow manipulation. I'm wondering if there is a way to do that out of combat as well. The current idea I have in mind is the ability to animate shadows within 30 feet (to make gestures and such), without providing a real combat-oriented benefit for it (the combat oriented benefit being bonus action hiding).
I think the easiest way to solve the Darkvision problem (which I don't think is too big a deal) is to simply add that to the spell list, which would probably be okay at this point.
Good point – easy easy fix by adding it as a potential spell.
I would make the animation more than just gestures – you can stretch people's shadows, or create even nightmarish images with them. I'm thinking almost Alucard (from Hellsing), but with less physicality and less cosmic horror to them. As a Sword of the Shadows, you use your magic like you use your blade: as a scalpal, cutting away people's shadows, manipulating them, drawing them into new forms that suit your purposes. You can stretch a shadow from its origin point to where you're standing, turning wherever you are into lightly obscured terrain (dim light, also called shadows, PHB, 183). Obviously you can hide anywhere with the Stealth skill, but this would reduce passive perception checks to see you into disadvantaged checks. It's a ribbon, can be used outside of combat, or inside of combat. I coiuld see it being hugely effective in stealth-missions (I'm thinking of Link trying to sneak past the guards of Forsaken Fortress using a barrell, or Snake using a box – you wouldn't need either, because you could draw the shadows to your side!). The main question is, is 30 ft far enough? Would 60 ft be allowable? Each character occupies a 5ft square in a grid-system, and you can take steps without running up to 35ft as a Wood Elf, 30ft a most races, and 25ft as slower/smaller races. It might be interesting to have the distance malleable based off the angle of light, so in the evening, you have up to 60ft, but mid-day it's only 30ft.
The cool thing about this is that it doesn't kill your effectiveness if you're up against Darkvision opponents, because they see Darkness as Dim Light, but don't reduce the Dim Light to even better conditions (they're the equivalent of heavy-armor wearers).
I really like this ability idea.
Marandahir wrote:
You see, I'd find the "enveloping in shadows" basically trying to redo something the system already provides for – hiding in dim light – areas with shadows, gives foes disadvantage on perception checks to see you hidden, though not on investigation checks to look for you hidden.
I don't think it's permenent obscuration; your character wants to stand on a shadow anyway, and by raw a shadow is lightly obscured. If you can stretch a shadow 30ft over to you, as a DM I would rule that fits into your "alter silhouettes cast on any surface within 30 ft of you". I just woulden't give the once per rest advantage on single stealth check using shadows, since if you've got shadows anyway you're essentially there – it's the inverse, but it's basically the same thing.
Welp, this is totally necro-ing my own thread, but wanted to provide a major update without creating a new thread. Sorry about that =)
Marandahir wrote:
Looks great. I've got a few ideas for a few more Arcane Paths that I'll offer, but as is I think I'm going to let this class be playable with my next group that I DM.
One alteration though, for my game: I'll be calling this class the more weapon-neutral name of Gish.
How does Spellsword Strike work with the feat Magic Initiate? Would you be able to attack as a bonus action after using a cantrip granted by the feat? Or would it be a no since the cantrips aren't part of the Swordmage spell list and the feature specifies that it must be a Swordmage spell? Because I love this class idea and I like the idea of blasting someone up close with a cantrip like firebolt, with no attack penalty from the Sword and Sorcery fighting style, and then following it up with a melee attack.
MisterClueless wrote:
Hi miburo,
I just put together a homebrew magus conversion class on the following thread:
I thought I'd share it on this thread, becuase you helped me build the class... I stole some ideas from your Swordmage class and used them in my own conversion.
Thanks for sharing your work.