Homebrew Caster Classes - Take 2

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Illumina_or_Ragnarok

Apr 14, 2015 22:25:25

Edited 4-17 - Reduced the power levels of both classes based on feedback and clarified the descriptions. Also added a spells list for the True Warlock

 

I have been working for a couple of homebrew classes with some players that I wanted to put out for some critiquing!

 

1) 3.5e Warlock Varient

 

One player was a huge fan of the 3.5 warlock, who could basically do anything that he was capable of at-will.  This classs does just that.

 

True Warlock

HD - d8

Proficiencies - Light armor, simple weapons

Saves - Cha, Con

 

Charisma is your casting stat.

 

You know 2 cantraps at level one, and gain an additional cantrap at 2, 6, 10, 14, 18

You know one 1st level spell at level one, and a second at level three

You know one 2nd level spell at level 5, and a second at level 7

You know one 3rd level spell at level 9, and a second at level 11, and a third at level 20

You know one 4th level spell at level 13, and a second at level 15

You know one 5th level spell at level 17, and a second at level 19

 

You can change your spells know when you gain a level.  You may also choose to learn a lower level spell in place of a higher level spell.  If you do so, you cast it at level that you learned it at.

 

The spells can be chosen from the following list:

 

Cantraps: Frostbite, Poison Spray, Produce Flame, Minor Illusion, Vicious Mockery, Thunderclap, Shocking Grasp, Ray of Frost, Firebolt, Light, Prestidigitation, Create Bonfire, Eldritch Blast, Chill Touch, Catapult

 

1st Level: Hex, Faerie Fire, Burning Hands, Ice Knife, Entangle, Earth Tremor, Inflict Wounds, Guiding Bolt, Bane, Dissonant Whispers, Color Spray, Mage Armor, Shield, Magic Missle, Ray of Sickness, Thunderwave, Catapult

 

 

2nd Level: Cloud of Daggers, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Ray of Enfeeblement, Scorching Ray, Dust Devil, Earthbind, Flaming Sphere, Moonbeam, Spike Growth, warding Wind, Spiritual Weapon, Shatter, Enhance Ability, Blur, Phantasmal Force, Web, Aganazzar’s Scorcher, Sniloc’s Snowball Swarm, Maximilians’ Earthen Grasp, Pyrotechnics

 

 

3rd Level: Dispel Magic, Fly, Counterspell, Fear, Vampiric Touch, Hypnotic Pattern, Blink, Fireball, Stinking Cloud, Call Lightning, Erupting Earth, Plant Growth, Sleet Storm, Tidal Wave, Wall of Water, Wind Wall, Bestow Curse, Spirit Guardians, Remove Curse, Speak with Dead, Speak with Plants, Gaseous Form, Lightning Bolt, Major Image, Melf’s Minute Meteors, Wall of Sand

 

 

4th Level: Banishment, Blight, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Wall of Fire, Evard’s Black Tentacles, Confusion, Freedom of Movement, Grasping Vine, Ice Storm, Wall of Fire, Watery Sphere, Compulsion, Storm Sphere, Vitriolic Sphere

 

 

5th Level:  Flame Strike, Insect Plague, Wall of Stone, Contagion, Animate Objects, Mislead, Bigbys Hand, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Passwall, Wall of Force, Immolation, Destruction Wave

 

(Worth noting that I treat contagion as needing to fail 3 saves before it takes effect.  it would not be on this list if you play that you are afflicted if you are hit, too powerful, but that is more of an issue with the spell than this build)

 

2) Sage

HD - d6

Proficiencies - Light armor, quarterstaffs, daggers, slings and darts.

Saves - Int, Wis

 

You can cast the same number of spells per day as a Bard or Wizard (Full Caster)

 

Sagely Wisdom

You are considered to know all spells of levels that you are able to cast.  You cast spells spontaniously (not prepared) from your known spells list.

 

Sagely Knowladge

You may use any magical item, other than weapons and armor that you are not proficient with.

 

Recall

 At level 5, after a long rest, choose 6 spells that have a combined level less than your Int modifier (increasing to Int mod +2 at 11, Int mod +4 at 16th, and Int mod +6 at 20th),  (cantraps count as level 0) and assign them each a number 1 to 6.  As an action, at will, you may cast Recall.  Roll a d6.  You cast the spell corresponding to the die roll. You may change the spells after each long rest.

 

Let me know what you think of these.  Feedback on the how powerful and fun these would be in play would be great!

 

Thanks!

 

 

#2

cowleymen

Apr 14, 2015 23:11:33

I kinda have a problem with the any spell list part of your variant warlock.  just so much potiental for bad cheesey min maxing.

 

just out right no to sage. what is his spell list? 

 

over all, these are so, so unbalanced. if your serious about these being taken seriously, you will have to do a lot more work, including writing full spell list for both classes, 

#3

Danny_Montanny

Apr 16, 2015 4:30:37

Sure, a 20th-level Wizard can cast Fireballs and Lightning Bolts at will. But... they're not throwing them around as level 6 spells!

 

This thing just breaks any continuity for spellcasting. What does "Standard Full Caster Prigression" mean? You know a limited number of spells, 2 per level up to 5, but can pull from any list? But then you go on to say you know all spells of any level you can cast. Which is it?

 

I kinda get what you're trying to do, but it just doesn't work in my opinion.

(Reply to #2)

Illumina_or_Ragnarok

cowleymen wrote:
(Reply to #3)

Illumina_or_Ragnarok

Danny_Montanny wrote:
#6

spanglemaker

Apr 17, 2015 0:08:22

 

Just a couple of points which are my personal opinion.

 

When I see the word Channelling, I get the impression of great potential for Spell Failure. So with great power comes great cost, maybe all spells are cast with Disadvantage. 

Possible features could involve making it easier to channel certain spells, also I would stick with Cha and Wis for Saves. 

Yes your 'True Warlock' is an overpowered nightmare, but you obviously have a vision which you share with your player. For a home game you can pretty much do whatever you like, give your fighters an extra Attack at level 1, or give Abjurers and Necromancers D8 Hit Dice, Transmuters D10 Hit Dice, Diviners doubling their initiative and gaining advantage on all saves.  

 

When I see Sage, I tend to think of a less flashy and less powerful Wizard, closer to a Bard but without the music, unless their area of expertise is Music.

 

So to me a Sage is really a variant of the Lore College of Bard, probably won't be casting Fireball or Wish, but possibly could if that was their life's work.

 

So my Hypothetical Sages, Melisandre the Hot and Jinny the Wishful. 

Melisandre was obsessed with Fire, a student of Arcana, Nature, History and Religion. Her first expertise was in Nature and Religion ( God of Fire). Her life's work was being able to cast Meteor Storm, her speciality is Conjuring Fire Elementals, and Fireballs.

 

Jinny, who was obsessed with the lore of the Djinn, was a student of Arcana, Nature, History and ( Investigation or Religion). Her life's work was being able to cast Wish, her speciality is: Create, and Major Image. 

 

If I felt the need to do so, then I would look at the Warlocks Arcanum as a Sage Feature, really Mystic Secrets should do. Still I would have a lot of balancing to do to create the Sage.

I think I will have a go at creating Melisandre and Jinny, as actual Bards, they can gain Fireball or Major Image at level 6, Create or Conjure Elemental at level 10, Wish or Meteor Storm with Mystic Secrets at level 18. They also have Expertise twice, so 4 skills with double proficiency, they are definitely Sages. 

Please note Melisandre the Hot, is far prettier than her twin sister in a different world, who has a couple of levels of Cleric and is playing a game of thrones. 

 

#7

Illumina_or_Ragnarok

Apr 17, 2015 20:01:15

Updated the OP with some changes based upon the feedback.  The major change to the warlock is the spell do not scale up unless chosen into a higher slot.  I also clarified the number of spells per day for the sage and reworked the recall ability slightly.  

#8

spanglemaker

Apr 18, 2015 0:52:56

I would suggest archetypes for your True Warlock, who is a primarily a blaster.

Elemental and Shadow

 

You start with less Cantrips than a Sorcerer but end up with one more than the Sorcerer at level 18.

You know 4 less spells than a Sorcerer, but are limited as to when you gain those spells, their level and by your spell list.

But presently your True Warlock lacks features and flavour

 

I could play a Sorcerer and take a couple of levels in Bard and possibly simulate a True Warlock, with more potent spells but the spells are not at will, which is not what your player wants

I would suggest creating  'Broken Invocations' ie your own invocations or Spellbinding (binding a spell to 1 or more spell slots).

 

Broken Invocations idea

Lesser Arcane Gift- At will 1st level Spell
Arcane Gift- At will 2nd level Spell
Median Arcane Gift- 3rd level Spell
Greater Arcane Gift- 4th level Spell
Most Potent Arcane Gift- 5th level Spell

 

Limit those to specific Warlock levels, as they are gifts of the Patron 
Maybe add some flavour ( such as a taboo or requirement for the Warlock).

 

Now this class is an Eldritch Knights, Arcane Trickster or a Magic Users wet dream. A level or 3 and you have more Cantrips and 2 at will spells.

 

I would suggest level 1 being Cantrips only, but your choice of 1st spell is locked in. You may cast that once per short rest. At character level 2 that spell may be cast at will. 

 You know one 1st level spell at level one (cast able once, but recovered by a Short or Long Rest, at level two it's at Will, and a second at level three
You know one 2nd level spell at level 5, and a second at level 7
You know one 3rd level spell at level 9, and a second at level 11, and a third at level 19
You know one 4th level spell at level 13, and a second at level 15
You know one 5th level spell at level 17, and a second a level 20


Spellbinding idea, each spell may be bound to a spell slot in accordance with rules, which empower them to be cast at will. 

The Spell must be bound to a slot equal or greater than its level, once that is done it is locked.
The spell needs to be empowered by a slot which needs to be a minimum of half the spell level(rounded up). Once that is done, the spell is considered Loaded and may be cast at Will.

At Will 'Mage Armor' needs a 1st level spell slot to lock it and another 1st level spell slot to Load it. Alternately you could use a 2nd level spell slot to lock and load.(A Sorcerer has two 1st level spell slots as does a Wizard, at first level). 

At Will 'Dispel Magic', needs a 3rd level slot to Lock and a 2nd level slot to Load, alternately you could use a 5th level spell slot or higher.  
I personally still don't think your sage is very sage like, random recall doesn't inspire me that much. Maybe increasing the accuracy of the recall would be better. Maybe limit to 6 spells whose combined levels are equal to or less than your proficiency bonus plus your Int mod, Cantrips are not included because they are at will. At levels 11 (+/-1))16 (+/-2)and 20 (+/-3)your ability at recalling the spell improves.  Maybe even at level 20, roll 1d6, on a roll of 1 it's random (you recall something else or are distracted) anything else you choose which spell you want to cast

The Sage definitely needs a spell list, it should be more limited than the Bard or the Wizard. Probably a distinct lack of evocation, limited conjuration. Focus on illusion ( for the purposes of seeking truth). Maybe a high level feature where you gain access to more flashy tricks from Fireball to beyond.

What is the defining feature of your Sage? 

I would suggest looking at the Sage Background, checking out definitions of Sage (one being a Wise man, so Wisdom would be the casting stat, but Intelligence would be important). Druids were considered natural philosophers, masters of philosophy were often call Sages.

Then there is Great Sage Equal of Heaven, aka Monkey.

The Sage could be considered a School of Wizardry, conceptually it would work better.

Why reinvent the wheel?

Sage Savant: you have a book of philosophy (Spellbook) no (personally) in advance to universalist. 

Other level 2 feature: It's all lore ( gain a language, a skill proficiency and a spell from any class (1st level)

Level 6 feature: Spell Recall ???

Level 10 feature: Lore Mastery ( Expertise or Mystic Secrets, you choose)

Level 14 feature: 'almost sage like'

The spells in your book of philosophy are all now considered prepared. It won't be long before you're knocking on heavens door, pigging out on the peaches of immortality then being tricked by the enlightened Buddha and having to spend an eternity under a mountain. 
Maybe one Mystic Secret as well ( maybe a spell up to 5th level if tight or 7th if generous)

At level 20 you might just reach an Enlightened state (Timeless body) this replaces signature spell

 

 

#9

spanglemaker

Apr 18, 2015 0:52:02

Apologies for the above Wall of Text, iPads don't play so well. I will edit it later when I get a chance on my computer 

#10

Illumina_or_Ragnarok

Apr 25, 2015 11:34:19

spanglemaker wrote: