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| #1zagora_01Oct 15, 2014 10:59:05 | Im building a Paladin/Warlock/Sorcerer for the Tyranny of Dragons campaign. It has a good chance of going all the way to 20th. The build has me taking 2 levels of Paladin and 3 levels of Warlock right off the bat. I plan on eventually doing 4 Pally, 4 Warlock and 12 Sorcerer. I'm not going to get my first feet until 9th level. I need the paladin spells for the healing and the three warlock levels for the two attacks.
War Caster only substitutes the somantic component (which is stupid by the way). and most of the big blaster spells have material components. My plan is to spam quicken a lot. So, I guess I would take my atttacks, sheath my weapon as a free action and cast the quickened spell. The next round I cast the spell first and then take my attacks drawing my weapon as a free action.
Questions:
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| #2RCanineOct 15, 2014 11:14:21 | I'm personally of the opinion that if you weird a two-handed weapon then you can cast just fine and not worry about action economy, but I know others disagree.
You can also go sword-and-open hand. Duelist style keeps your damage pretty close to two-hander. Or you can go defense style to pick up +1 AC to make up for that missing shield.
The +2 AC from a shield is nice, but it's not the end of the world if you trade it for a wider spell selection. Heavy armor alone is fine.
Edit: if healing and heavy armor is all you're after, 1 level of cleric might suit you better, and allow you to take 5 warlock levels, if you're concerned about errata invalidating your dodgy interpretation of warlock evocation level requirements. |
| #3SaelornOct 15, 2014 11:30:21 | For many spells, manipulating the material component is the somatic component. The feat allows you to swing your sword while carrying a shield, and the materials just vanish out of your pouch.
Otherwise, you would need to juggle your sword, as described. At that point, you wouldn't even need the feat - anyone can do that already, but it's just annoying. Hence, why they created the feat. |
| #4zagora_01Oct 15, 2014 11:43:59 |
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| (Reply to #3)zagora_01 |
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| #6MightyThokkOct 15, 2014 18:26:51 | First off, just keep an eye out for spells without an S component. Lots of good ones out there, especially on the Paladin list. For 1-h weapon and shield always start the fight with your weapon put away. Cast spell and then use your free interaction to draw a weapon if you're going to need to use your oppourtunity attack. Any round where you don't care about using your OA, put your weapon away as your once per round envionronmental interaction.
Gets to be pain to keep track, but you can pretty well get by. Especially if you plan ahead. Going to buff on the first round, keep the weapon away till after you cast. At low levels grab a couple extra weapons and just *drop* *cast* *draw* in a single round. Until you get a reason to use a specific weapon, all longswords are the same.
Also if you're only a part time caster, you can get away with it. Use spells till you close up, or occasionally swap spots with another party member to cast for a round. Let the cleric stand on the front line for a round or two, it'll do the little guy some good. You can absolutly do without it. War Caster just lets you play sloppy.
And btw RAW Saelorn is absolutly correct, the material components requirement is a non-issue. Hand wave it however you want, but Material Components just need to be on your character sheet and they go *poof* when you cast the spell. No hands required. Use your tail if you have to. Component pouch on the weapon arm, and grab with the shield hand. All of the above. Its a cinematic requirement not a rules requirement, describe it however you'd like. No feat or free hand required for Component requirements.
However if you're picturing standing in the front lines, swinging a sword and blasting with fireballs you'll want War Caster. Front line characters really shouldn't give up OAs. Its pretty much why you're there. |
| (Reply to #4)2Chlorobutanal |
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| #8Ghost_GallusOct 15, 2014 19:00:48 | Material components only matter if they have a cost attached, other wise you can just use a focus which you don't have to actually hold in your hand (i.e. your satff can be a weapon and focus). War caster helps simplify the somatic part of a spell but that is hardly the main reason to take it. Spells as OAs, Shocking Grasp is fun. |
| (Reply to #8)onceMoreIntoBreech |
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| (Reply to #9)zagora_01 |
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| (Reply to #10)Timborama |
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| #12SaelornOct 16, 2014 11:16:37 |
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| #13durntaurOct 16, 2014 12:04:32 |
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| #14Danny_MontannyOct 16, 2014 13:13:02 | What War Caster should've done was allow you to treat the weapon you're holding as an arcane focus.
Material component just don't go *poof* from your pouch when you cast a spell. You have to grab them, hence the "must have a hand free to access these components" line. Anyone who thinks that, "well... it doesn't say you actually have to access them, just that you need a free hand to do so" should probably hang up their dice.
So yes, even with War Caster, to cast a spell that requres M, you'll need a free hand to cast the spell (with the exception of those that can use Holy Symbols). You're good to go on holding your sword to cast any other spell, however. |
| #15SaelornOct 16, 2014 13:39:07 |
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| (Reply to #13)2Chlorobutanal |
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| #17kimura121Oct 16, 2014 23:00:26 |
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| (Reply to #17)2Chlorobutanal |
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| #19UndrhilOct 17, 2014 1:14:21 | Divine Smite says that you give up Paladin spell slots. How are you using sorcerer slots for that feature? |
| #20edwin_suOct 17, 2014 3:12:15 |
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| #21Danny_MontannyOct 17, 2014 4:43:39 | Exactly, edwin_su! Not to mention a Holy Symbol worn or emblazoned on a shield will give the Paladin access to any M requrement spell while still being able to wield both shield and weapon so long as they have War Caster. The classes that it'll most restrict, when it comes to M components, are the Arcane spell casters, not the Divine.
If they truly wanted you to have access to all spells without needing a hand free, then they would've wrote the feet like I suggested, making your weapon your arcane focus. Since they didn't do that, it's safe to assume that it was intentional. The feat is still very useful for particular builds even with the limitation. |
| #22melloredOct 17, 2014 5:24:11 | Most utility spells have M. And the battle spells that have M tend to be stronger too, and ones they are trying to reserve for casters (disintigrate, fireball, wall of X).
It all seems pretty intentional. |
| #23austinmonsterOct 17, 2014 7:56:32 | Can't we all just agree that this is one of the single most broken things about 5th edition? They've tried to solve the answer in twitter just to controdict themsevlevs several times. They've even said that you could manage somatic components by "putting your sword in your shield hand and casting, then taking up your sword again" in the same action. Why should a cleric or a paladin get a free pass on foci (they can just wear them on their shield) but druids and bards don't? There's no logic to it. It's something they dropped the ball on. The one guiding light I go by is a comment that the devs made that say "the rule isn't there to limit the player." I'm fine with that.
The rules are only there to limit the players if the GM feels he needs to for the plot. Need the wizard kidnapped? Bound and gagged and he won't be able to cast much.
The real strength of the feat is in the ability to have advantage on concentration checks, and using spells for attacks of oppertunity. Anything outside of that is pure fluff. |
| #24SaelornOct 17, 2014 11:42:37 |
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| #25kimura121Oct 17, 2014 12:08:18 |
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| #26NachturnusOct 18, 2014 19:45:57 |
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| (Reply to #24)austinmonster |
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| #28NachturnusOct 17, 2014 13:05:01 |
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| #29SaelornOct 17, 2014 14:10:39 |
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| #30Knight_MarshalOct 17, 2014 19:57:24 |
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| #31OculeOct 17, 2014 21:39:16 | Dont forget about attacks of opportunity with cantrips or advantage on concentration checks. It feels worth taking if you have a free feat aka after you max out your casting stat. |
| (Reply to #19)zagora_01 |
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| #33ChakravantOct 18, 2014 10:34:20 | I'm a little confused as to what the issue is with Warlock Invocations. I understand the basic part, that without the rules stating the requirements by class level, some people think you can get Invocations at one's character level as opposed to one's Warlock level. But that really isn't "enough" in one critical way. You'd have to take levels of Warlock after the levels of your other class, because you only get to choose Invocations as you go up in Warlock level. Honestly, I've found little of the Warlock class to be very interesting after Hex and Repelling Blast, and as such Warlock has always seem best suited as an initial 1-2 level dip rather than a later edition (taking advantage of EB's explicit stacking by character level) to me. In that respect, even if this "broken" trick is RAW, it doesn't provide much of a benefit and looks to be more of a trap option in white room secnarios. |
| #34Ghost_GallusOct 18, 2014 12:46:47 |
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| #35EMROct 18, 2014 17:06:22 | An additonal consideration is to remember that you can't smite from your warlock slots at all due to the specific language used in the Pact Magic section of the multiclass table. |
| #36NachturnusOct 18, 2014 19:49:27 |
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| #37edwin_suOct 19, 2014 17:18:52 | had a look at the paladin, and for what spells he needs to sheeth a weapon or have the warcaster feat. and what spells he can cast if he has weapon and shiels or 2 handed weapon and no warcaster feat. the boldend spells need a free hand for the somatic component.
1 st level Command, Compelled Duel, Searing Smite, Thunderous Smite, Wrathfull Smite |
| (Reply to #26)2Chlorobutanal |
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| #39melloredOct 20, 2014 5:55:24 |
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