Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zagora_01 Jun 03, 2015 15:36:39	I'm talking about the Eldritch Knight ability that allows him to cast a cantrip and attack as a bonus action. Is it mostly for flavor, does it stack up to two or three attacks per round?   I ask this because I'm deciding if going 5 levels of battle master and 15 levels of wizard is better than going 7 levels of Eldritch Knight and 13 levels of wizard.
#2 Yunru Jun 03, 2015 16:00:37	It's mostly for flavour, multiple ranged attacks are normally superior. If, however, you multiclass or take a feat to pick up a multi-hitter, say Eldritch Blast or Scorching Ray, it merely adds to your damage output and thus is useful.
#3 Ashrym Jun 03, 2015 16:51:10	The eldritch knight abilities like that are there with the assumption a spell is preferable to an attack, cast, and the attack is a bonus on top of a spell. It's not a bad ability as a bonus on top of casting a spell, but it's often better to simply take all attacks and use the bonus action for another attack. Eldritch knights don't have that much spellcasting going on, in my experience. Compared to a bard with more and higher level spells and less attack power the bard version seems better in their hands. In your specific example, the eldritch knight would likely be making better use of the ability than a pure fighter. You wouldn't get the bonus attack for spells but when you are casting a cantrip attack and then an additional bonus attack you are definitely doing more than just a cantrip attack in most cases.
#4 RulesJD Jun 03, 2015 17:08:31	Honestly, if your goal is to be a spell casting fighter, the Paladin is better in every way besides ASI, and that can be offset with going Variant Human.  I wish that weren't the case, but the EK spell list/special abilitie just aren't that good comapred to Paladin.
(Reply to #4) Ashrym	RulesJD wrote:
#6 Xeviat-DM Jun 03, 2015 22:38:08	What? Are you assuming the EK goes full Wizard after getting War Magic?   Lets say our level 17 EK is going for a cantrip and then bonus attack. They're using a longsword, dealing 9.5 damage per hit. Their cantrip is doing like 22 (4d10, firebolt). Cantrip plus longsword is 31.5, where 3 longswords is 28.5. Once the fighter gets their 4th attack, then 4 longswords goes up to 38. Poison spray could work for a melee focused build. If they went for duelist or great weapon fighting, then their weapon attacks are going to be much better.   At 7th, they're looking at 8.5 damage per hit and two attacks, while firebolt is doing 2d10 (11) or poison spray is doing 2d12 (13); cantrip+weapon is better than weaponx2, even if they went for duelist or greatweapon.   At 11th, they're looking at 9.5 damage per hit an three attacks, while firebolt is doing 3d10 (16.5) and poison spray is doing 3d12 (19.5); cantrip+weapon is 26 or 29, while three weapon is 28.5; pretty close.   It's not always going to be your best option, but when you need alternate damage or a special effect, it could be beneficial.
#7 Ashrym Jun 03, 2015 23:17:44	The OP stated 7 fighter levels with EK, the rest wizard.
(Reply to #7) Xeviat-DM	Ashrym wrote:
#9 mellored Jun 04, 2015 5:31:21	Level 8 spells are kinda weak.   So i'd take warmagic, which is usable all day.
#10 RulesJD Jun 04, 2015 12:30:05	Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #10) Ashrym	RulesJD wrote:
#12 zagora_01 Jun 04, 2015 13:33:06	Thanks for all your imput guys. The actual damage calculation is what I was looking for, and it looks like a cantrip + sword attack is still very good. I was going to go battle master rather than Eldritch Knight, but now I think I will stick with Eldritch Knight.   Regarding the Paladin Sorcerer build. That is a totally different style of play. With that build you are using quicken metamagic a lot to get the spell cast along with the full attack. It doesn't have a lot of staying power because the sorcerer points are expensive. I do like it though and I'm saving that character for the next season. That will be my Drow Paladin/Sorcerer of Ellistraee.
#13 abanathie Jun 04, 2015 16:44:42	zagora_01 wrote: