How to build a gish?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

johniemi

Oct 21, 2014 9:16:42

I'd like some ideas on how to build a melee caster / gish / "swordmage" or whatever you like to call it. The core rulebook has Eldritch Knight as a Fighter variant but I'd like to take a different approach, in other words "do it myself" just for the fun of it I have no idea how mutliclassing works, I'm about to start reading it this evening but I was wondering are the below ideas feasible in this edition:

 

("Caster" referring to Sor/Wiz in this case)

 

Paladin/Caster?

Fighter/Caster?

 

Coming from D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder I know the above can work superbly well but not sure in 5th ed.?

 

Also I don't think our campaign will run to the 20th level so missing the keystone ability is not that big of a deal. I'd just like to play and build something different than a ready-to-play Fighter variant like the Eldritch Knight.

#2

mellored

Oct 21, 2014 9:32:00

Multiclassing is similar to 3.5.  Except the DC's scale by total level, not caster level.  And spells scale by spell slot, not caster level.

 

Still, you want to focus on utility spells, since you won't have the high level spells or slots for damage.

#3

Corran21

Oct 21, 2014 9:33:56

Lots of ways to do it. How you will do it depends on what you want to aim for, whether that is superb tanking abilities, dpr, nova, or anything else you might have in mind. So before any advice is given, better provide some info on what you want your character to excel at.

#4

johniemi

Oct 21, 2014 9:40:53

Thanks for the replies. My party already has a Fighter, Rogue and a Warlock so I think I should be the second guy in the front line, and doing buffs/debuffs/summons??? But hey, nova sounds nice because I know our GM doesn't like too many encounters per day... I hope he's not reading this ;)

 

I'd like a character that can survive melee but also do things that a basic melee class can't. But if I have to choose between melee/ranged ability vs. spellcasting ability, I'd say spellcasting 60%, fighting ability 40%. But I may need to hold the front line when the Fighter goes down or is stunned etc.

 

In 3.5 terms, I'd like to build a character that can cast at least 7th level spells and has at least 3 attacks by level 20. I hope this helps to give some idea of what I'm aiming at?

 

#5

IxidorRS

Oct 21, 2014 9:55:56

Paladin6/Sorcerer14 or Paladin7/Sorcerer13 Might be good. You can save your spell points for when you use damage spells from the sorcerer.... but like Mellored said, you won't have the higher slots as early and so won't be doing as much damage.

 

Fighter 5/Warlock 15 could maybe be an interesting melee build, but you already have a Warlock so that might not fly.

 

If you just want a tough caster who buffs/debuffs... Why not Cleric? If you don't like to heal, you don't have to. They have plenty of other awesome things to do. The Life, Nature, Tempest, and War domains get heavy armor and the latter two get martial weapons. You don't get Extra Attack but you have some other options.

 

Additionally, at any point, you only need a one level dip into Cleric to get their armor and weapon proficiencies provided by their domain.

 

College of Valor Bard could also be a decent melee build, though College of Lore gets a pretty great debuff with Cutting Words.

#6

mellored

Oct 21, 2014 9:56:17

How about a valor bard?

 

2 attacks, full level 9 spells, buffs (healing), debuffs, and you can pick up summons at level 10.

 

Either that or a war cleric.

 

 

 

#7

Finieous

Oct 21, 2014 9:57:36

My typical suggestion would be war cleric 9/EK 11, but given your spellcasting preferences, you could look at war cleric 13/EK 7. Your primary stats would be Str and Wis; you can dump Int because you'll only use wizard utility and defensive spells. What war cleric will give you that another spellcasting class won't (e.g. wizard) is d8 hit dice and fighting abilities (War Priest for bonus attacks, Guided Strike for +10 attack, Divine Strike for +1d8 radiant damage). You'll get a nice range of combat buffs, heals, save-or-sucks and damage spells without elemental dependencies. From 3rd level on, spiritual weapon gives you an attack with your bonus action and no Concentration. The EK levels will give you d10 hit dice, Action Surge, an Extra Attack (two if you go 9/11), War Magic (and Eldritch Strike if you go 9/11), and defensive wizard spells such as shield and mirror image (no Concentration). You'll be very capable in melee and can also cut loose with powered-up guiding bolts, flame strikes, etc.

#8

ZHDarkstar

Oct 21, 2014 10:05:57

johniemi wrote:
#9

1eejit

Oct 21, 2014 10:11:14

Another cool option is Monk/Druid (Land). Same ability scores are used, which is nice.

 

Druids get the best summon spells in the game imo as well as some great buffs/debuffs and healing. 

 

Monk gives you a lot of mobility as well as nice melee damage and defensive abilities. Somatic components are rarely an issue for a Monk caster.

 

 
#10

Yunru

Oct 21, 2014 10:16:31

Pick up extra attack and dedicate your concentration spell to Haste. It be the only way to get 3 weapon attacks on a class that can also cast lvl 7 spells.

#11

Yunru

Oct 21, 2014 10:16:33

Pick up extra attack and dedicate your concentration spell to Haste. It be the only way to get 3 weapon attacks on a class that can also cast lvl 7 spells.

(Reply to #4)

7he_professor

johniemi wrote:
#13

Sorxores

Oct 21, 2014 11:18:52

johniemi wrote:
(Reply to #13)

ZHDarkstar

Sorxores wrote:
#15

mellored

Oct 21, 2014 12:17:16

Valor bard 14 / rogue 6.

 

Any Level 7 spell, and 2 attacks + sneak attack = 3 attacks.  

#16

LuthielValkire

Oct 21, 2014 19:23:06

I think valor bard 18 and fighter 2 come close --

 

9th level spells

2 attacks

action surge

hasted 3rd attack

possible two weapon fighting 4th attack

8 attacks on an action surge

 

It appears that this is the most number of attacks (base) you can get and still keep high level spells. In order to get that third base attack (for a total of five potential), you'd need to go to 11th level in fighter which would remove your spell selection to 5th level if you took the other 9 levels as wizard (though EK would push your spell slots higher).

 

Alternately, consider paladin 6, sorcerer 14 for some high damage output in both spells and attacks, but with lower overall attacks. Still a decent gish with 7th level spell access and 8th level slots.

#17

Southpaw79

Oct 21, 2014 19:40:42

All of these are good ideas. You may be able to work in Polearm Master to some of these builds to pick up an extra attack with your bonus action but it could be feat heavy if you need to pick up Warcaster as well to cast while wielding your polearm. It could be fun to add Polearm master to the Monk/Druid using a quarterstaff and shillelagh.

#18

Zardnaar

Oct 21, 2014 20:35:07

Southpaw79 wrote:
#19

Hagaurd

Oct 21, 2014 21:03:45

An interesting trick to keep in mind is your a few feats allow you to use bonus actions to make a second attack.  The two feats are pole arm master and crossbow expert.  You can build a gish/blaster, use your action to blast, then the bonus haste action to attack then get another attack with a bonus action.  I am considering building a ranger 2/ sorcerer 6.  In one round he could twin flame bolt and fire his crossbow 2 times all with a bonus 1d6 from hunters mark.  

#20

Zardnaar

Oct 21, 2014 23:25:59

Hagaurd wrote:
(Reply to #20)

Hagaurd

Zardnaar wrote:
#22

IxidorRS

Oct 22, 2014 8:56:43

Hagaurd wrote:
#23

Shaudius

Oct 22, 2014 11:03:30

Hagaurd wrote:
#24

Zardnaar

Oct 22, 2014 13:14:41

Shaudius wrote:
(Reply to #4)

Ashrym

johniemi wrote:
(Reply to #14)

Ghost_Gallus

ZHDarkstar wrote:
(Reply to #26)

bid

Ghost_Gallus wrote:
#28

IxidorRS

Oct 22, 2014 19:51:31

Dwarf Wizard?

Kind of works.