Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Deathspree Jan 10, 2015 13:33:45	So, looking at things there's no real reason to be dual wielding as a Rogue. They don't get the fighting style to support bonus damage, they don't have the AC or HP to do well in direct conflict,  they lose out on cunning action if they want an extra dice roll and sneak attack doesn't hit but once per round minus OAs. In every aspect it's better to simply go Crossbow expert and or sharpshooter and just snipe from a far or dual wield daggers/axes and throw them worst case scenario.   Any ideas how to make the damage worthwhile the risk or make it viable in comparison to speccing full on range? I thought about the idea that one attack action would result in MH and OH but that seems too strong combined with cunning action.
#2 AaronOfBarbaria Jan 10, 2015 14:56:59	It is entirely viable as is - sometimes you miss your first attack roll so spending a bonus action to try and land that sneak attack again is worth it, and that's all it needs to be viable.   Related: I absolutely hate it when folks get definitions confused and think that everything must be in the pinnacle tier in order to be "viable" when really anything above the "you made poor choices and your character died" line is the definition of "viable"
#3 mellored Jan 10, 2015 15:02:30	there's plenty of compition for feats. crossbow expertise gives the most damage, but... +2 dex, gives AC, dex saves, defense, inititive, skills. healer feat is great combined with thiefs fast hands. still great with other rogues. resilent con will let you get all 3 major saving throws. toughness, cause you deal no damagw when dead. ect... you likely won't have a 2-hander, or shield, so there's no compition for your hands. as for bonus actions, the only compition is cunning action. who's usefullness varies a lot. no need to disengage or hide if you can kill instead.
#4 Ashrym Jan 10, 2015 15:18:14	Like AaronOfBarbaria said, 2 chances to land sneak attack instead of 1 chance is worth a lot. 2 chances to land and 2 chances to crit is a bigger damage increases than just base die damage. If it weren't for the competition for the bonus action that rogues have there wouldn't be much reason not to use TWF.
#5 Coredump00 Jan 10, 2015 15:31:45	If your table lets you dual weild/load/fire two handbows.... I don't think anything else is going to give you that kind of oomph.  But if you are choosing between 1 ranged shot, or two melee attacks, then the reduced chance to completely miss means a lot more SA damage on average.
#6 EzechielDantan Jan 10, 2015 15:31:59	I absolutely love that a rogue is not required to dual wield to deal more sneak attack damage, but it is stilll viable. It gives you options, you can strike, if you miss you can try again to deal SA damage or if you hit you might decide it is better to disengage, dash or hide.
(Reply to #2) Deathspree	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #7) Ashrym	Deathspree wrote:
#9 1eejit Jan 11, 2015 2:38:27	Melee can have big benefits over ranged, depending on the rest of your party composition in any particular game. For example if you have an allied Wolf Totem Barbarian the melee rogue gets advantage during rage, ranged doesn't benefit. An allied Paladin can give you benefit of their 10ft aura more often than ranged. If you have friends who continuously knock the enemy prone that's advantage for melee attacks but disadvantage for ranged. Hold person/monster only give automatic critical to melee range attacks... And so on. The biggest advantage for melee for a rogue is of course the chance for a second sneak attack per round from an OA, which ranged cannot get - even if at 5ft using a hand crossbow as an expert.
(Reply to #8) Deathspree	Ashrym wrote:
(Reply to #10) Ashrym	Deathspree wrote:
(Reply to #7) Coredump00	Deathspree wrote:
#13 mellored Jan 12, 2015 7:38:34	Coredump00 wrote:
#14 Greenstone.Walker Jan 12, 2015 17:19:42	Dual wielding is a good choice when you have two magic weapons with useful effects. For example, you have a short sword that gives you resistance to fire damage and a dagger that gives you darkvision. When you hold one in each hand you get both effects, as well as having the option to use dual-weapon fighting.
#15 Noctaem Jan 13, 2015 6:59:17	Right, I think the whole premise of your thread is misplaced.  You're asking to compare a game element that everyone has access to from the start without any real resource investment to feats?  Which are only gained in very small number...  You can't compare this stuff like this.
(Reply to #15) Coredump00	Noctaem wrote:
#17 mellored Jan 13, 2015 10:25:45	Coredump00 wrote:
(Reply to #17) Coredump00	mellored wrote:
#19 mellored Jan 13, 2015 13:07:32	Coredump00 wrote: