Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wills2009 Sep 01, 2014 19:39:48	I'm considering playing a warlock and particularly like the fiend patron.    Anyone have any ideas on how to RP this as potentially not evil?   I was figuring at least for other people's sake, I would play him as a charlatan who's false identity is that of a regular "wizard" and he could just lie to everybody and convince them he's casting normal wizard spells. I'd go pact of the tome and most of the spells I'd use are on the wizard list anyway. It shouldn't be too hard to conceal the true nature of my powers at least from some people.     As for my characters internal RP, I'm not totally opposed to actually being evil and wanting to follow my patron, but surely there are some interesting angles beyond "I got tricked by a devil" kind of stuff?
#2 Lord_Ventnor Sep 01, 2014 19:46:10	wills2009 wrote:
#3 Mad_Jack Sep 01, 2014 19:51:50	You could easily be using the fiend's power against  it's will - nothing in the actual rules text says either party had to make the pact willingly. It's all just fluff. You could be a demon binder: you could even say that each power you have is a separate demon bound under your control that you call on to perform a specific task.
#4 wills2009 Sep 01, 2014 19:54:27	Interesting, I kind of like that idea.   I want to play the character as a big knowledge seeker so the idea that he discovered and exploits demonic power is pretty appealing.   I don't need him to be "good" necessarily, I actually prefer to play more neutral characters. Stealing evil power from demons seems about right to me
#5 Yag007 Sep 01, 2014 19:57:26	my guys parents made a deal with a pitlord, and when he was still young the pitlord came to murder his family.  My guy was somehow able to wound the devil and escape with one of his eyes which is now imparting him with demonic powers while slowly changing his appearance and personality.  He's not turning evil per se, but will be more prone to giving in to rage (for which he feels immensly to any creatures not from the material plane) and making rash decisions out of passion.  So one of his big goals is to finish what he started and kill/banish the pitlord among other things
#6 hallows1999 Sep 01, 2014 21:42:24	And there is always the, "You took on the pact o free someone else. Or, you made the deal to save someone else."
#7 Novacat Sep 01, 2014 21:56:18	In one of my 4E campaigns, there's a Infernal-pact warlock who accidentally offered up his best friend's soul in exchange for power. So he has full custody of his own soul, but is riddled with guilt over his friend's eternal fate.
#8 Lord_Ventnor Sep 01, 2014 22:43:30	You might also go with the "sealed inside a person-shaped can" trope, where your warlock's very body is the prison for a powerful fiend, and they can draw upon said fiend's power because of it.
#9 NN1 Sep 02, 2014 12:32:14	I had the idea for a tiefling whose family was murdered when she (or he) was young and when the murderous rabble turned on the fiendish child, great great... ...great grandfather (or grandmother) offered assistence, allowing the character to barbeque the assailents (close quarters burning hands against untrained and possibly injured thugs).  The character isn't evil, but she had little choice.  The fiendish patron is evil, but does care for the charater in his own way.  Ties of blood are thick and while he will suggest evil or more self serving solutions to problems, he has no specific agenda, that's just how he normally solves problems.  The idea of his descendant helplessly being slaughtered by humans is shameful.  Not being evil he can bear, but weakness? Weakness needs to be fixed and can be through proper patronage.     For the character's part, she is thankful for her grandfather's help and will not abandon him for anyone.  Humans stood discriminated against her family and some slaughtered them.  Afterwards, they chased he out of town, pleas of self defense were ignored over news of her newly manifest (and presumeably unholy) powers.  She knows that there are kind people and some that do not discriminate in this way, but her grandfather was the one who saved her in her time of need and granted her the powers she needed to defend herself in this dangerous world.     So, what do you think?
#10 BW0222 Sep 02, 2014 13:12:28	Several ideas:   * You are evil and actually like devils and demons. * You are greedy and one promise you something. * You are neutral and 'tricking' it. You are promising to help release it or something, but have no indention of doing so. * You were forced into the pact. Keep someone you love alive, keep yourself alive, maintain your family fortunes, etc. * You grew up with someone who made the pact and promised in the deal. Your parents were warlocks, you were orphaned and raised by a drow, etc. * You were tricked into the pact. You swore an oath against someone for revenge, as a childhood game, read a book you didn't understand, etc. * You are good and make the pact without their consent in order to fight their worshipper/followers. You found a book on one of their followers which compells it to provide powers. Maybe  you were part of a good force who infultrated the fiend's followers and learned its secrets. * You left an evil group. Maybe you were part of the evil followers and left or were forced out. Maybe they are hunting you. You still have their knowledge but are not bound by their evil-doing. * You made a mutually benefitical pact. The fiend wasn't another more powerful fiend's followers defeated. The enemy of my enemy thing. * Some group has bound the fiend. The fiend has been bound or exhiled by your order and you draw power from it against its will. * The fiend isn't evil. There are some planes are pure evil. Maybe the fiend is from a CN ordering on CE plain. Maybe it was exhiled or is seeking to turn over a new leaf. Maybe its goals do not involve spreading evil on your plane. * The pact isn't with the fiend but with something related. This could be one of the fiend's outcast minors, an intelligent sword it tossed away, a former familiar, or his writtings in a book. They provide ways to access the fiends powers, in return for you fighting the fiend, convincing you to take them back, or defeating a rival. Works well with pacts. Pact of the Blade could be a manifestation of the sword which the demon used but discarded for another sword. The sword is p'd at him.   The possibilities are pretty much endless.
(Reply to #9) Lord_Ventnor	NN1 wrote:
#12 wills2009 Sep 02, 2014 14:09:27	Lots of great ideas, but isnt it a bit of a cop-out to just say "I tricked/trapped/lied to a demon and just steal its power against its will"     I find that the way the class description describes the pact/patron is a bit confusing and contradictory at times. On one hand it talks about servant/master type relationship between you and the patron. But then it mentions you can get in a pact "by accident" and that some warlocks work against their masters goals.   To get your spells back you have to contact your patron and ask for them, and the class description implies that at the very least you might get asked to do "favours" for your patron even if you arent outright serving them.... What if I just tell them to buzz off? It doesn't say anywhere that your patron can refuse or cut off your power if you piss them off, but it's kind of implied.   Whether you are serving it, "tricking it", etc at last implies that you have to make some effort to appease it and keep it happy with you.     If I just say "I bind demons and steal their power" then wheres the drawback (aside from demons attacking you at some point)? Why wouldn't every warlock just say "I don't serve my patron, I just siphon magic from them to use however I want...?
(Reply to #12) NN1	wills2009 wrote:
#14 N4M8- Sep 02, 2014 18:15:19	wills2009 wrote:
(Reply to #12) BW0222	wills2009 wrote:
#16 Ghaliyah Sep 03, 2014 0:46:20	At the moment, I'm running a pretty good emulation of a half-fiend using the tiefling race and infernal pact warlock as a chassis. So, y'know, there are options for subtle or not so subtle reflavoring available as well.
#17 Mephi1234 Sep 03, 2014 7:22:28	wills2009 wrote:
#18 Mechatarrasque Sep 03, 2014 9:03:06	wills2009 wrote:
#19 Lord_Ventnor Sep 03, 2014 9:27:33	Is it wierd that I just came up with an idea of a Warlock was a former member of the Fiendish Mafia?   "I'm gonna make him a Faustian Bargain he can't refuse."
#20 wills2009 Sep 03, 2014 11:56:17	I guess what I'm getting hung up on, is once you get access to this power, your patron has no way to take it back? I keep thinking of it as a cleric/diety relationship where they grant you spells (and can cut you off) but it's obviously not like that. So fiends and fey and whoever else sign these deals with mortals to grant them power in the hopes that they either get corrupted by them or at least serve their goals to some degree... What happens if a Warlock gets so bloody powerful and epic they surpass their patron?
(Reply to #20) Lord_Ventnor	wills2009 wrote:
#22 Ceskay Sep 03, 2014 13:02:58	wills2009 wrote:
#23 wills2009 Sep 03, 2014 14:02:20	Lord_Ventnor wrote:
(Reply to #21) NN1	wills2009 wrote:
(Reply to #23) NN1	wills2009 wrote:
#26 N4M8- Sep 03, 2014 22:12:20	wills2009 wrote:
(Reply to #26) NN1	N4M8- wrote:
#28 iserith Sep 04, 2014 13:27:43	Here's a tiefling warlock that is among my favorite characters to play. Back story and whatnot is in the post.
#29 Mechatarrasque Sep 04, 2014 14:25:37	iserith wrote:
#30 iserith Sep 04, 2014 15:03:27	Mechagamera wrote: