Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 CaliMafioso May 18, 2015 21:01:45	Ok peoples, I could use a little help. My character is a 2nd level Ranger whose favored enemy are Dragons. My alignment is Lawful Good. My predicament is... We have a Dragonborn joining the group. Even though I'm lawful good do I warmup to the Dragonborn at some point or are we always enemies?
#2 AaronOfBarbaria May 18, 2015 21:36:56	1) dragonborn aren't dragons. 2) favored enemy means enemy you are more skilled at dealing with, not creature you are required to have hate for the entire species of.
#3 FedeII May 19, 2015 0:22:51	Also, there are many cases in history where a military commander studies an enemy (race, population, hero, commander etc) to the point that he admires him (also, Orson Scott Card XD). Even if reluctantly so.  So your pg could have grown more accustomed to dragons (and therefore dragonborn) than many other pgs. He even automatically can talk its language! And draconic is not widely known at all. He could understand phisical differences and problems of the dragonborns that other would struggle to get, maybe even some of their custom. Remember that often language bear something of the culture it belongs, so probably there are terms for "clan", "family", "honor" etc that the ranger gets and would help him realize the dragonborn as more than a monster.   I say he warmups to the dragonborn, though not at the beginning (he needs to fully realize that dragonborns are not dragons).
(Reply to #3) AaronOfBarbaria	FedeII wrote:
#5 FedeII May 19, 2015 2:00:53	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#6 Razintarr May 19, 2015 3:02:06	Favored enemy doesn't make you hate your chosen target. 5th edition has all but done away with enforced backgrounds in races and classes.    You can of course make it part of his background that your character hates dragons. Maybe a dragon attacked his village. You can make it part of your background that he mistrusts anything dragon-related too, including dragonborn.   Are you always enemies with the dragonborn? If he's an enemy, why is he in the party? Most likely it's a meta-game reason, another player that wants to play a dragonborn. For convenience at the table, you can decide to tone down the hatred of your character to a "I don't trust you and I'm keeping my eye on you, but we have similar goals for now" level. During play you can work your way up to "I still hate your kind, but you are ok" or even "I admit I was wrong about dragonborn".
#7 Thaenok May 19, 2015 3:51:14	Actually dragon born ARE dragons. They were initially conceived by the manipulation of dragon eggs and thus were embryos of said dragons. Just because they don't walk on all fours and fly doesn't mean they aren't an offshoot subrace. The difference is mainly cosmetic anyhow. They did in fact descend from dragons and no other species so yes they are still dragons. That's like saying all the off shoots of humanity who did in fact mutate due to various environmental factors aren't human. A magical creation? Sure. But the fact remains they are still dragons. Or if you want to be technical even true dragons aren't true dragons since they were conceived by Tiamat and Bahamut and when you consider they have more subspecies than I have fingers, it really becomes a can of wyrms. Their name is "dragon born" and if you are born from something, doesn't that make you what you were born from? I'm not sure I follow everyone's logic here when it is said something is what someone says it is. The OP obviously thinks they are dragons and I'm inclined to agree. Now if you want to debate which subraces of human are actually human since it all boils down to mutation, please enlighten me. I wasunder the impression there could be differences in a race and it be a good thing. Or am I wrong? Sorry but you wanted to correct someone who in fact wasn't wrong for reasons I can't even fathom. Now to answer the OP, I would say that at first play out that hatred. After awhile, build a friendly rivalry and then maybe even a friendship. This was done in Lord of the Rings with Gimli and Legolas. There are many approaches that would make for a good story. And above all, have fun.
(Reply to #7) AaronOfBarbaria	Thaenok wrote:
#9 Thaenok May 19, 2015 4:32:21	No I don't misunderstand. From a rules standpoint, their blood is too thin to be considered true but from a biological and philosophical view, I and the OP have perfectly good ground to stand on. I don't care what type it is, the description says dragon. Now if they had started out as something else like a human or even a mixed heritage then you could say I misunderstand. If they aren't dragons then the flavor script really needs to be changed because all I hear is dragon. Also the name dragon born. Type means didly when its dragon this and dragon that in the racial description.
(Reply to #9) AaronOfBarbaria	Thaenok wrote:
#11 Thaenok May 19, 2015 7:52:11	Are you just trying to be argumentative? I see your side okay. We could argue our respective points until the cows come home but are you really saying that you can't see my side on the matter? Technically all animals, vegetables and minerals are atoms blah, blah, blah. The point is he wasn't as wrong as was needing a correction and you just almost admitted you see why they could be called dragons so what's the problem? I won't debate this anymore but correcting someone when they have a right to their perspective is kind of trolling. It isn't necessary and now instead of being on topic we are debating about something that boils down to symantics. Fine. You win. Dragon born are humanoids or martians or whatever else you think they are. Now can we please get back on topic.
(Reply to #11) AaronOfBarbaria	Thaenok wrote:
#13 Kentus May 19, 2015 9:40:59	If you're playing in the Forgotten Realms, the dragonborn and you have something in common: Most dragonborn also hate dragons. ;)
#14 Thaenok May 19, 2015 10:05:08	@AaronofBarbaria. No you clearly stated I was wrong. That isn't a discussion. It is an accusation that my side of the conversation has no merit and no truth to it, which sorry, but it does. And you quoting every little thing I just said tells me you like over thinking things and picking things a part. You are in fact continuing to argue by quoting me like that and insulting me by continuing this conversation when I clearly said you win. What is your problem? Edit: And isnt 5th edition supposed to be open to that kind of interpretation? But I guess since the book says something it is set in stone. Again you are right I am wrong.
(Reply to #14) AndrewJO	Thaenok wrote:
#16 Thaenok May 19, 2015 11:03:06	I am calm. Clearly talking on the internet isn't a good way to convey emotions. I don't however take kindly to being picked apart and it was clear what the OP meant to begin with but " dragon born aren't dragons" was just nitpicky to me and unessecary. I knew what he meant by it and stated my opinion on the matter just as Aaron did. Why am I in the wrong for doing exactly the same thing? The answer is I am not. And for the last time I KNOW they aren't the dragon TYPE. I am talking about other factors that would lead one to say they ARE dragons.Screw it. Getting tired of repeating myself on this thread. Its all yours.
#17 HermanTheWize May 19, 2015 11:57:02	Dragon Born Description from players Handbook:   Born of dragons, as their name proclaims, the dragonborn walk proudly through a world that greets them with fearful incomprehension. Shaped by draconic gods or the dragons themselves, dragonborn originally hatched from dragon eggs as a unique race, combining the best attributes of dragons and humanoids. Some dragonborn are faithful servants to true dragons, others form the ranks of soldiers in great wars, and still others find themselves adrift, with no clear calling in life.     If someone used the Favored Enemy in a way where you actually hate the enemy, then yes I can see them not liking Dragonborns. They may not be directly Dragons, but they come from Dragons.     If I hate Jerry, then I'll probably be more biased to hate stuff Jerry makes, even though they're not Jerry.
(Reply to #14) AaronOfBarbaria	Thaenok wrote:
#19 Thaenok May 19, 2015 12:50:21	Okay. I have taken a step back and reread things. I believe I am in the wrong in that you were not arguing and were in fact discussing. I think I just didn't like being told I misunderstood something when I think I do. I flew of the handle just a bit and for that I apologise. I am sorry for accusing you of trolling and being close minded as well. I stand by my original idea that the dragon born could be called dragons if someone wanted to. They could also be called humanoids as well. I also can't read minds and was unclear how to respond so I responded in a way that was a bit hasty. I should have asked what you meant by me not understanding so yeah, that wasn't cool. Anyway I will bow out of this topic regardless.
#20 CaliMafioso May 19, 2015 15:49:28	This clearly did not go in the direction I intended. I'll say this...   In my game, Dargonborn, Half-Dragon, Drakes, and Wyverns. (Probably others that I don't know about.) Are all considered a type of Dragon. Anyways, based on my other traits... I'm driven by a wanderlust that led me away from home. And... I will bring terrible wrath down on the evildoers who destroyed my homeland. (Which was a Dragon) I like the idea that the new PC joining the group, her and I will not be friends. It will take a lot for us to tolerate each other. Being Lawful Good, I will over time, warm up to her (a lot of time). As long as she is not evil in nautre. If she is, she might have to die (but I will wait in judgement).       Also... Enough with the bickering, it doesn't help my original request. Keep things in perspective.
(Reply to #20) AndrewJO	CaliMafioso wrote:
#22 CaliMafioso May 20, 2015 11:28:55	I've never been hostile to another player during a campaign... This should be interesting.   We've been playing for a couple months now and she was unable to join the group till now. Can't wait for the Dm to introduce her to the group.
(Reply to #20) AaronOfBarbaria	CaliMafioso wrote:
(Reply to #23) HermanTheWize	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #24) AaronOfBarbaria	HermanTheWize wrote:
(Reply to #25) HermanTheWize	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #26) AaronOfBarbaria	HermanTheWize wrote:
#28 BRJN May 22, 2015 16:53:55	OP: What does LG have to do with Favored Enemy?   As a Lawful being, when in doubt you follow the rules.  As a Good being, you assume the best in other intelligent creatures until you know differently. So: you meet a strange Dragonborn.  You can be reserved and cautious at first meeting.  Study him carefully (Favored Enemy + Perception) to look for both similarities and differences.  You will need more information before you can make definitive judgement.  Strike up a conversation with him - you might get a pleasant surprise; or you might get your worst suspicions confirmed.  If he saves your life in combat unasked, you know his resemblance to Dragons is only skin-deep and superficial.   As stated above, Gimli and Legolas are a model for your interactions.  So is the meeting between Aragorn and Frodo.  Both persons had to prove themselves to the other's satisfaction, but both already were predisposed (via Gandalf) to work together - once they had established the other's true identity !
#29 Horwath May 22, 2015 22:47:20	Having dragons as favored enemy does not make you into Waffen SS with the final solution in mind. Although many ranger players get pulled in into that way of thinking.   You just have more training and knowledge about dragons and their behavior and tactics. Most rangers that have undead as favored enemy dont hate them. They are just trained to help their community to clear the area of undead.   Some rangers have beasts as favored enemy. Does that mean that they hate animals? Rangers? No, it means that they have duty to keep the animal balance in that area and hunt species that have larger growth in a season.     As for dragonborn, I would rule it as any "half species". it is both humanoid and dragon for spells, effect, feats. So hold person works and dragonslayer works also, etc...